If W10M doesn't fix BLANK, It's over..

[realwarder]

The OS includes more and more core functionality - 8.1 brought Cortana etc. WM10 brings Android and yet another app platform. This puts a strain on available memory to support running processes above the base OS.

Currently I think it is getting better with each preview release. As mentioned above, we don't see behind the scenes but I'm sure focus on performance will increase as the feature set is now settling.

 

[Skamath]

"Resuming" and "Loading" are inherent to WP 8.1 and from all indications thats goimg to carry over to W10M only they'll be hidden by splash screens.

Come to think of it. That is why it is all so nice and smooth on the Iphone6+ and Ipad that my mrs uses. So it is not the phone afterall

 

[amcluesent]

After a hard reset with build 10512, the 'resuming' is very rarely seen on my 930. Before the hard reset it ran very, very badly.

 

[Skamath]

They won't. The resuming/loading screen depends on how much code the coder puts in the resuming part of the app and how fast the CPU will process operations. An app is composed of background and foreground parts when coding.

The background part runs even if the app is suspended.

The foreground part usually stops running when you change app or go to start. Then when the app is reopened the resuming part of the code is executed, in this code the coder must update the GUI accordingly. For example if a new message arrived while in background or the background thread did something worth showing and so on.

So this is all to say that:
-coders should put just a few lines of code, if there is a long operation like fetching something from the net they should first let the app open and then load missing data
-processor speed and fast memory will both mitigate bad coding (not slow net connection)

The only thing MS can do is to create some strategy to oblige developers to have short resuming times (loading-times when first opened), like "if it takes more than x just reinit the app and if reinitializing the app takes more than y just let the app crash with an error" (maybe this is too aggressive but something should be done so developers will receive bad feedback and change their code and so the blame is not put on the OS itself).

Maybe you all knew this, just wanted to give some insight on the matter to those who didn't.

So just to recap, on a 950 you will only have the resuming on really badly coded apps and so you should complain to the developers via the store review system.

I didn't read past the first para but I am sure what you said is absolutely the logic behind the loading and resuming screens but as a developer would you honestly say that no matter how light the app coding is written or desgined the OS and hardware has the capacity to bring the app speed down?
Also like I read somewhere in this thread this IOS and droids cover it up with the splash screen instead of loading and resuming why does that happen when closing apps and switching screens when it swiftly closes or switches over in IOS and droids?

One more question is that when I have had some apps from day one of the phone including the OS starting with the amber update, why do I see more resuming and loading screens from more apps as the updates to OS and FW have been installed?( the Hard reset was done after every update and FW flash)

 

[Kram Sacul]

It was all down hill after 8.0. Until 8.1 I never had a problem with resuming or loading screens on either my 820 or 920. Flashing back to 8.0 GDR3 confirms this. It was just a lot faster to open and jump back into an app. MS screwed something up.

 

[tale 85]

I wonder...most of us testing W10M are using inexpensive phones equipped with fairly low-powered S400 and S200 SOC's. Is the "resuming" screen as annoying on a Lumia 930 (800 series SOC)? I suspect most Android phones we are seeing for comparison are using 800-series SOC's, or at least 600.

Also, I wonder what part installing apps on a micro SD card plays in the lengthy delay. Guess I should run an experiment.

BTW, I when I compare the general responsiveness of my Lumia 640 with an S600-equipped Android device, I am not concerned. The Android device doesn't hesitate as much during the "resuming" phase, but it is not as smooth and quick in other launches and transitions. Overall, I think the responsiveness is very similar on like hardware.

The Android phones I've played with don't show anything like "Resuming" they just hold the current screen until the transition is made. The lag time is about the same.

And yes, the load speed does seem to have something to do with the SD. I'm wondering if a higher speed SD would help.

 

[hagjohn]

If Microsoft doesn't stop people from posting stupid topics, I'm DONE!

 

[Krystianpants]

It's definitely partly how the Application developer implements the resuming process. Readit does it really well. It actually shows the main readit screen, then it transitions to the subreddit and then finally to the post that you left off on. Still annoying to wait. I've had some apps and even my start menu sit on resuming for so long I had to close the task or reboot the unit.

But if you can reproduce the resuming part on any application, in windows 8.1 or 10 I want you to try this. Disable any of the transparency and background effects on your start screen. Now try again. This speeds up the unit quite a bit. Windows 10 has an even harder hit based on your slection of transparency tiles and background images. It's likely using opengl to do this as there is no directX on these ARM devices. This alone hogs memory and puts a huge strain on your SOC. The start screen needs to take precedence over anything just in case you hit that start button. So it needs to be ready and rendered pretty quickly. The amount of tiles you have is likely also a big factor.

If Microsoft could move over to the new intel cpu's and use directX 12 these units could be quite blazing fast.

 

[amcluesent]

Just speculating, maybe the memory compression feature in build 10532 of Windows 10 can be utilised in Window Mobile?

 

[Mad Cabbie]

If Microsoft doesn't stop people from posting stupid topics, I'm DONE!

+1

Another issue, correct me if I'm wrong, could be the fact that the previews are not device specific, thus issues potentially cropping up. I've not seen any 'resuming' issues on my 640xl, but then again, I'm fussy about clearing apps etc, using the hold back button and swiping them away. Hopefully with android apps on the horizon we can obtain clean master to dispose of junk.

 

[Skamath]

I've not seen any 'resuming' issues on my 640xl, but then again.

It could also be possible that the hardware is heaps advanced compared to the older devices which started off with the win8 while the 640xl was with 8.1update2 and with future win10 in mind?

As for the as the lag and resume screen it is there in all OSs the only difference is that it is covered by splash screen for entry and exit of the app.

 

[a5cent]

It's likely using opengl to do this as there is no directX on these ARM devices. This alone hogs memory and puts a huge strain on your SOC.

As stated earlier, I don't know what the reasons for the resuming delay are, but I do know it has nothing to do with OpenGL vs DirectX. Both are software libraries, and both are available on ARM devices. All WP devices since 8.0 support DirectX on ARM.

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/dn632424.aspx

See the section about DirectX

 

[Keith Wallace]

The thing they need to fix is the half-finished nature of the OS. That the Android and iOS compilers, basically the ONLY hope to fix the app problems and make the OS relevant, are delayed makes the launch already a failure. Few are going to want to switch from Android/iOS for W10M when it still has little hope in getting all of the desirable apps for another 6-12 months. Fluidity and percetion are far from what the masses want, when put next to content.

This will FOREVER be the Achilles' Heel of this platform, unless they get those compilers out there and devs start flooding the Store with apps.

 

[Krystianpants]

As stated earlier, I don't know what the reasons for the resuming delay are, but I do know it has nothing to do with OpenGL vs DirectX. Both are software libraries, and both are available on ARM devices. All WP devices since 8.0 support DirectX on ARM.

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/dn632424.aspx

See the section about DirectX

I'm talking about DirectX12 I have not seen a soc that shows support for it. And the difference is that directX11 has the cpu send single pipe commands to the gpu while 12 allows for command batches to be executed which would provide extreme performance enhancement with the start screens transparency effects and such. Turn them off and see how much faster your device is. I ran Windows 10 really well with basic start screen on my 520, when I turned on transparency and background image it got super slow.

 

[a5cent]

I'm talking about DirectX12 I have not seen a soc that shows support for it. And the difference is that directX11 has the cpu send single pipe commands to the gpu while 12 allows for command batches to be executed which would provide extreme performance enhancement with the start screens transparency effects and such. Turn them off and see how much faster your device is. I ran Windows 10 really well with basic start screen on my 520, when I turned on transparency and background image it got super slow.

I was primarily disputing that there is no DirectX on ARM devices.

In regard to DirectX12, okay, but we're talking only about very modest amounts of extremely trivial UI transparency here. There is no way batching a few dozen draw calls in this scenario will result in any noticeable performance gains.

I couldn't reproduce your observation on my L830, but if this bit of UI transparency is causing slowdowns on your L520, then something is either buggy or just unfinished, and DirectX12 is unlikely to fix either. More likely, what you really need is just a version of W10M that is better tailored to your L520's hardware. Hope you get that with the next build. ;-)

 

[anon(5383410)]

Groove Music. I cant sync, skipping forward a song often results in skipping ahead two or three songs and sometimes it arbitrarily replaces songs on my playlists with different songs (wish I was making that up).

I was just pondering this for the first time today because my contract was up at the end of August and I'm eligible for an upgrade. I want to wait for Talkman but if they can't sort out the music syncing I did look at the S6 Edge today just for the hell of it. First time I've even entertained switching since WP7. I'll wait and see but I must admit I'm getting a bit tired of waiting to see. The idea of switching is no longer out of the question.

 

[Krystianpants]

I was primarily disputing that there is no DirectX on ARM devices.

In regard to DirectX12, okay, but we're talking only about very modest amounts of extremely trivial UI transparency here. There is no way batching a few dozen draw calls in this scenario will result in any noticeable performance gains.

I couldn't reproduce your observation on my L830, but if this bit of UI transparency is causing slowdowns on your L520, then something is either buggy or just unfinished, and DirectX12 is unlikely to fix either. More likely, what you really need is just a version of W10M that is better tailored to your L520's hardware. Hope you get that with the next build. ;-)

Even in the real world DirectX has shown increases in game performance by massive amounts on ati cards which have full support. Simply by sending batches to the gpu and letting multiple pipelines execute rather than having a single stream. This actually also frees up the cpu from having to have to send a dedicated stream of information and waiting for completion before new commands are sent. This allows the cpu scheduler to focus on other tasks. So even if something is simple it still frees up the cpu. And the 520 is not exactly top notch hardware so yes it is more likely to see the difference. My performance gains are more observant on Windows phone 8.1 on my lumia 830 as windows 10 is random when it comes to issues. Heck one time my lumia 830 just started vibrating none stop and i couldn't stop it had to cold boot. It's so random too. But you won't notice resuming much if you keep your start screen simple on 8.1. At least from my experience.

 

[eric12341]

I don't think it's the OS it's mostly the coding in the apps, for example some apps still aren't being released with fast resume support, that alone can cause the resuming screen or even a splash screen. Another reason might be that some devices could be running low on RAM causing apps to not resume from their resuming state as fast as they normally would when RAM is fresh. On my HTC ONE M8 with the latest preview installed I don't see any resuming unless I'm running one of those apps or if my phone hasn't been reset in days.

 

[nukesheart1520]

well in my 1520 in build 10512, i don't see ANY resuming. Tried it just now, opened lots of apps (pianophone, guitar, minirecorder, Halo SA, Messenger, MSN News) and tried shuffling through those..and nope, no resuming. On WP8.1 there's lots of resuming on my 1520 and 830.

 

[a5cent]

Even in the real world DirectX has shown increases in game performance by massive amounts on ati cards which have full support.

Somehow we're not communicating very well. I'm not saying draw call batching will never lead to notable performance gains. It can, particularly in complicated 3D scenes. I'm saying it can't do so in this particular scenario! How many draw calls do you think it takes to compose this trivial W10M UI with transparency? Very very few! Optimizing something that barely occurs isn't going to make a noticeable difference. That's my point.


Hoping DirectX12 will make a noticeable difference in trivial transparency rendering is like hoping a two-handed sword will make it easier to butter your slice of bread. Sure, it works, but the sword is really only better than a bread knife when used for bigger tasks.


Anyway, I agree with the rest of what you say. I hope that whatever is holding your 520 back is fixed in W10M.