03-25-2016 03:25 PM
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  1. Maurizio Troso's Avatar
    What phone would that be?

    Oh, you don't mean this one, do you?
    I jumped the fence thanks to local carrier's agressive "phone included" option. I took a 650. Even a 550 could be perfect
    03-21-2016 06:35 AM
  2. Mahesh Abnave's Avatar
    hey guys let me put this in broader context. Someone have to speak this loud. Common.....
    Lets say I am ok if my beloved Lumia 520 does not get update. But big question is this:

    If I am ready to buy next biggest / baddest flagship at whatever cost, say $1500, will Microsoft promise me for at least 5 years of official updates? Or $1500 is just not enough for Microsoft for providing such promise?

    Let me summarize this straight: These companies have grown a lot greedy. Apple and Androis OEMs startes this. Stating we will support phones for 2-3 years. Microsoft is following the pack. Technically, at least Microsoft should be able to provide updates for at least 5 years. I am able to upgrade my decade long PC machine to Windows 10 and with One Windows everywhere Microsoft must be able to replicate PC update experience to mobiles. But they just wont....they all are too greedy. They want us to buy new hardware for new software, not just for new hardware. Thats the reality. Surely $1500 worth will be worthy even after 5 years.

    I wrote pretty big concerns about the same on WMPoweruser comments via Disqus. here

    Here is what For information I am Microsoft fanboy. You may find my posts online in forums high lighting goods of Windows platform. Here I am neither talking about cost of phones nor comparing companies or platforms. I am talking about unfortunate de facto philosophy/belief followed in mobile industry.
    These companies are perfectly capable of building devices which can be updated for at least 5+years, both technically and financially. After all that is how Windows was always. I am able to upgrade my decade old costly machine to Windows 10. Though I am here comparing PC platform with Mobile platform, we must not forget that that today Windows 10 run on Raspberry Pi too which does not have very high end specs. Also note that Phones are catching up with specs. Just look at those super cheap Xiomi phones having 4GB RAM and Quad core processors... My decade old machine even did not had such specs. (Though I understand that mobile and PC processors are not that straight comparable, but definitely it's not the case that there are no mobile processors which can perform better the decent PC processor capable of running Windows or Linux)
    I feel we have started to associate happiness with buying new phone every 2-3 year. So we are very happy and excited when we know that our current phone is 2-3 year old. That's how precisely many industries benefit - by saling stuff exploiting the fact that people love to have new ones, even though it's not actually needed. Bad thing with Mobile industry is that they enforce this.
    We should just stop saying "that's not how mobile industry work... Look none Android, Apple did it that way". But still we say that because we are just OK with it. We accept it because that's how it was always since birth of mobile industry. But we forget that it is made like that by Android manufacturers and Apple for their monetary benefit. They are now forcing us to have hardware upgrades that is buy a new phone to have software upgrades. Isn't that sounds incorrect. We should be able be able to software upgrade our devices as long as it is possible technically...but that is not happening.
    Let me put it other way:
    1. I am ready to shower double the money on phone than I would on a decent laptop. Know what? It is defacto that I will get Windows updates on laptop as long as it is technically possible (either OS patches, or update to full new OS like Windows 7 to 10 or even by buying new licenced retail OS DVD of new version). In fact it is so obvious that no seller will specify it explicitly. Even buyer will not think of it explicitly. **We all just know that this is how it works** But with Mobile stuff...we all know that no one will provide such phone that will update after 5+ years. Again **We all just know that this is how it works**. Its all about accepting how it works...and nothing else...sadfully
    2. Tell me why not many manufacturers put efforts like project Ara and phoneblocks?
    3. With Microsoft unifying Windows across mobile and PCs are they going to unify the upgrade experience too? Afterall they were providing updates to different PC/laptop models of different manufacturers. Now they should be able replicate the same for mobiles. Is it going to happen that way?

    This is what I thoughts:

    For information I am Microsoft fanboy. You may find my posts online in forums high lighting goods of Windows platform. Here I am neither talking about cost of phones nor comparing companies or platforms. I am talking about unfortunate de facto philosophy/belief followed in mobile industry.
    These companies are perfectly capable of building devices which can be updated for at least 5+years, both technically and financially. After all that is how Windows was always. I am able to upgrade my decade old costly machine to Windows 10. Though I am here comparing PC platform with Mobile platform, we must not forget that that today Windows 10 run on Raspberry Pi too which does not have very high end specs. Also note that Phones are catching up with specs. Just look at those super cheap Xiomi phones having 4GB RAM and Quad core processors... My decade old machine even did not had such specs. (Though I understand that mobile and PC processors are not that straight comparable, but definitely it's not the case that there are no mobile processors which can perform better the decent PC processor capable of running Windows or Linux)
    I feel we have started to associate happiness with buying new phone every 2-3 year. So we are very happy and excited when we know that our current phone is 2-3 year old. That's how precisely many industries benefit - by saling stuff exploiting the fact that people love to have new ones, even though it's not actually needed. Bad thing with Mobile industry is that they enforce this.
    We should just stop saying "that's not how mobile industry work... Look none Android, Apple did it that way". But still we say that because we are just OK with it. We accept it because that's how it was always since birth of mobile industry. But we forget that it is made like that by Android manufacturers and Apple for their monetary benefit. They are now forcing us to have hardware upgrades that is buy a new phone to have software upgrades. Isn't that sounds incorrect. We should be able be able to software upgrade our devices as long as it is possible technically...but that is not happening.
    Let me put it other way:
    1. I am ready to shower double the money on phone than I would on a decent laptop. Know what? It is defacto that I will get Windows updates on laptop as long as it is technically possible (either OS patches, or update to full new OS like Windows 7 to 10 or even by buying new licenced retail OS DVD of new version). In fact it is so obvious that no seller will specify it explicitly. Even buyer will not think of it explicitly. **We all just know that this is how it works** But with Mobile stuff...we all know that no one will provide such phone that will update after 5+ years. Again **We all just know that this is how it works**. Its all about accepting how it works...and nothing else...sadfully
    2. Tell me why not many manufacturers put efforts like project Ara and phoneblocks?
    3. With Microsoft unifying Windows across mobile and PCs are they going to unify the upgrade experience too? Afterall they were providing updates to different PC/laptop models of different manufacturers. Now they should be able replicate the same for mobiles. Is it going to happen that way?
    03-21-2016 06:37 AM
  3. Johnny Tremaine's Avatar
    I jumped the fence thanks to local carrier's agressive "phone included" option. I took a 650. Even a 550 could be perfect
    Well, given this past week, the 550 and 650 are similarly low end devices that Microsoft is going to abandon in a year; that said, the future of the operating system is so risky, I wouldn't recommend anyone buy anything BUT a low end Windows phone.

    If you really want a modern high end smartphone, you buy an iPhone or a Nexus or a Galaxy.
    03-21-2016 06:46 AM
  4. R3mis's Avatar
    Well, given this past week, the 550 and 650 are similarly low end devices that Microsoft is going to abandon in a year; that said, the future of the operating system is so risky, I wouldn't recommend anyone buy anything BUT a low end Windows phone.

    If you really want a modern high end smartphone, you buy an iPhone or a Nexus or a Galaxy.
    Exactly my thoughts. People who bought the 950s could get stuck with a dead OS in a year or so. WP seems to be very likely to fail now, some even call it dead already. I say let's wait a few months and we'll see but I'm not giving them much chances, given the number of mad customers leaving for other platforms and dwindling market share.
    KRDROIDD likes this.
    03-21-2016 06:53 AM
  5. Johnny Tremaine's Avatar
    Exactly my thoughts. People who bought the 950s could get stuck with a dead OS in a year or so. WP seems to be very likely to fail now, some even call it dead already. I say let's wait a few months and we'll see but I'm not giving them much chances, given the number of mad customers leaving for other platforms and dwindling market share.
    Yeah, they just instantly halved their entire install base (inside of one weekend!), to just under 1% of worldwide smartphone share, so the future of the OS is cloudy at best. On a smartphone pie chart, it's strictly now in the 'Other' category along with Samsung's Tizen, Firefox OS and Symbian.
    OmniusOne likes this.
    03-21-2016 07:00 AM
  6. Varun Rajan's Avatar
    What I see these days (maybe this does not apply directly to you) is a lot of people with old phones that were going to the competition anyway and just needed a reason to justify themselves. I mean, if you really enjoyed and wanted to stay you would probably upgrade 3 years old models anyway (you don't keep a phone longer than 3 years on other platforms either) so what is happening clearly is:

    -people fed up with windows using this excuse to leave the platform and upgrade their old phones to a new platform
    -people still interested in windows using this excuse to upgrade their old phones to a new windows phone
    Seeing the customer retention policies of microsoft's mobile division who would wanna be fooled again. Obviously you own a new device fine by me. But its not just that. They sold like 2 year hardware then in the name sake that windows is the most efficient OS. Made a mess of the preview version which took forever to even to be considered a beta and for all the faithful users hardwork they ditched support. They failed to deliver and to keep their words( may be due to lay offs) admit it.
    03-21-2016 07:02 AM
  7. Maurizio Troso's Avatar
    Well, given this past week, the 550 and 650 are similarly low end devices that Microsoft is going to abandon in a year; that said, the future of the operating system is so risky, I wouldn't recommend anyone buy anything BUT a low end Windows phone.

    If you really want a modern high end smartphone, you buy an iPhone or a Nexus or a Galaxy.
    I completely disagree you ;)
    If your unique opinion is Windows 10 Mobile will closed, you 're completely wrong .
    Let's talking after final Redstone release
    PS: 650 it's a mid-end
    03-21-2016 07:07 AM
  8. n900's Avatar
    Good points from many forum members. If Microsoft reps are reading this, you seriously have tarnished not only the brand but all the hard work committed by numerous groups over the years. There's a difference in streamlining your bloated + fragmented device base and cutting ties with your (few) loyal users. Once again it seems no one at the company decided to think this from the communication perspective. How will the users react to negative changes (WP7->8 support, OneDrive storage mess, Skype for TV disaster, W10M release) to their existing devices and what can we do the tone it down.

    Surface phone is coming this autumn and was considering to purchase it after 1020 (as there has been very few serious candidates for replacement after it from the lumia family) yet I now I face myself in a situation where Microsoft products raise suspicion and caution regarding the service. I could be better off with One Plus Three or even Apple 6S.

    Despite all this, here's my action plan for survival
    > You have from the Nokia days data set of emails from the ones who signed up to the quality program. Craft a well thought out message explaining the technical difficulties in expanding the RedStone support for Lumia 520/920/1020. Illustrate this with data from the insider program + engineer division.
    > Apologize for giving false promises regarding the upgradability (you started with good intentions that everyone will have it, tech just evolves rapidly and 2-3 years is a long time). However we have great features waiting in Redstone (examples 1-5) and something exciting is approaching (teaser image of a corner of the Surface phone)
    > As a loyal customer we will offer you 50$ rebate+global free shipping on the new flagship model if you click this link and you will be among the first ones to get information of the new solution
    03-21-2016 07:15 AM
  9. Johnny Tremaine's Avatar
    I completely disagree you ;)
    If your unique opinion is Windows 10 Mobile will closed, you 're completely wrong .
    Let's talking after final Redstone release
    PS: 650 it's a mid-end
    All the signs point to Microsoft ditching Windows 10 Mobile; thinking otherwise is delusional, sorry if the truth hurts.
    You don't jettison most of your user base in a matter of days, if you're committed to your mobile OS.
    mariusmuntean and KRDROIDD like this.
    03-21-2016 07:18 AM
  10. Maurizio Troso's Avatar
    All the signs point to Microsoft ditching Windows 10 Mobile; thinking otherwise is delusional, sorry if the truth hurts.
    You don't jettison most of your user base in a matter of days, if you're committed to your mobile OS.
    I repeat: let's talk after Redstone release. That is becoming the same boring 3ad about the release date before the date.... ;)
    03-21-2016 07:21 AM
  11. kkneey's Avatar
    I think The fact is their is few of engineers
    working on win10m now. They have no patient to optimized these **2* devices. So they give up.
    Maurizio Troso and OmniusOne like this.
    03-21-2016 07:26 AM
  12. Johnny Tremaine's Avatar
    I repeat: let's talk after Redstone release. That is becoming the same boring 3ad about the release date before the date.... ;)
    This is just more Soon™, and 'Wait for....'

    By now, that talking point is a joke that's almost meta in nature.
    03-21-2016 07:27 AM
  13. Maurizio Troso's Avatar
    This is just more Soon™, and 'Wait for....'

    By now, that talking point is a joke that's almost meta in nature.
    I respect you own opinion. Respect mine too ;)
    03-21-2016 07:29 AM
  14. Johnny Tremaine's Avatar
    I totally do. Agree to disagree then.
    03-21-2016 07:31 AM
  15. gwinegarden's Avatar
    Grow up, the world isn't fair, technology changes. People report that the experience sucks on those devices, then you'd complain about that.

    Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
    Nice! Perhaps people should boycott your apps.
    03-21-2016 07:41 AM
  16. gwinegarden's Avatar
    I don't get the hate for MS in this thread. Should we all just be happy that our phones were supported for 2-3 years? Not all phones have this privilege of being updated consistently. I think we should just move on and buy a new phone...
    It's about broken promises.
    03-21-2016 07:48 AM
  17. judah modeste's Avatar
    WOW soooo lumia 620 owners seem to be not even included in this group. Anyway as an owner of a 512 device which is my only phone i'm not mad or a bit upset by the news, I would like to buy a new windows phone but i can't right now and being an insider for the W10M and getting first hand view of the problems the 512 devices are experiencing for them to be included would give MS a huge level of backlash from not only fans but all of the mobile community and will drop WM fans to deeper levels. But being fair and honest it sucks that these devices wont being getting the W10M I looks nice my phone preforms better than 8.1 even battery life is better but, those little freezes that happens a few times would give one a sucky (not sure if sucky is a word but i hope you get the meaning) experience. I dont just feel bad for the 512 phones i feel it for all WM from other brands that wont get the update and have better specs that some of the Lumia 512 phones.
    03-21-2016 07:50 AM
  18. Varun Rajan's Avatar
    here's a story from my country, Kenya.

    In 2013 when the elections were happening, the current president promised that all standard one pupils in public primary schools would receive laptops by the end of the year.

    3years later so far only a few dozen schools have received laptops as part of a testing program to see how they function and what is the best way forward.

    Are people angry that their kids haven't got laptops yet? Yes, they are. Are they patient? Mostly yes. I've not seen any parent complaining that the government promised to give laptops and have failed to do so so far and hence they will take their kids to private schools.

    Whether promises were given or not, whether plans were made or not, the fact is that the upgrade experience can be challenging and we still have options within the MS experience to continue forward.

    Insider program is available. For a few months we still get to experience W10M. Redstone hasn't been released for the older phones and my expectation is it won't be for a couple of months. Add a few more months and I'm seeing W10M being available for our phones on insider until end of 2016
    You have gone lengths to advocate a failure. Providing people with laptops is a huge task when compared to delivering updates. sorry kinda agreed to your post above this . But this thing here is pure fanboyism.
    03-21-2016 07:51 AM
  19. micosecronica's Avatar
    Hi again!

    I've been reading your comments and for those (like me) thinking in changing to another platform, the main question its not the operating system per se but the app compatibility!
    That is what, in my opinion, can turn things in favor or against Microsoft! And for me, its against them!

    Let me put things in perspective, if you buy an Android, midrange, will probably have Android 4.4 or 5, in some cases, but most 4.4 or inferior right? Microsoft launches updates to their Android apps, this phones will run it!
    Now, for us users of 8.1, we are unable to run Universal Apps. They have made improvements to Microsoft Maps in response to Here leaving the boat, will WP 8.1 see also that updates??
    I think that's here that resides our major grunt!
    If there was a mode that somehow allowed running Universal Apps there weren't so many disappointment in people, but in a short period, we are going to have what I call "brick phones" that will allow us to make phone calls and text message and take some fine pictures but all goodies will be inaccessible to us...
    03-21-2016 07:53 AM
  20. mjrtoo's Avatar
    Why, because you're upset over something that has nothing to do with me?

    You're suggesting boycotting apps, on a platform that obviously you own and like, because your phone isn't being updated? Is that how you support future development of your chosen platform? I'd say that's worse than Microsoft choosing to not update for positive experiences. Don't you see the hypocrisy in your statement?

    Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
    03-21-2016 08:03 AM
  21. Stef8600's Avatar
    I don't think a lot of phones have been updated yet. Stated that the upgrade is only possible after installing the Upgrade Advisor app, a lot of 'normal' users (meaning excluding the geeks like you and me) are not even aware that an update is available for their phones.
    I own a L720 with 512Mb (W10M insider preview), and allthough I was impressed by W10M on my daily driver, I must honestly admit that it is nowhere compaired to W10M running on my sons 535. Of course my 720 is less recent that 1520/1320 devices (not even talking about the possibilities for the 1020) and I can understand their point of view in being dissapointment. But heck, (sh)it happens all around us, it is the law of economics. Money has to roll. We are ripped off more money by our governments, due to their incompetence than by phone manufacturers. At least If I have to buy a new phone, the money I spent serves me and not the politician.
    Let's be honest with ourselves, if MS released W10M to phones like my 720, those people would start complaining about the phone no longer working optimal.
    Jeddic likes this.
    03-21-2016 08:10 AM
  22. Paolo Ferrazza's Avatar
    You have gone lengths to advocate a failure. Providing people with laptops is a huge task when compared to delivering updates. sorry kinda agreed to your post above this . But this thing here is pure fanboyism.
    Well calling fanboy someone that is just trying to express an adult and calm reasoning looking at the facts instead of crying because something went wrong is not nice :)

    He tried to explain that all problems should be seen in their context, not being able to update old devices to redstone (because this is what we are talking about) is something that should have been avoided but it's not something so crazy like all you seem to think.
    Jeddic, Chintan Gohel and KRDROIDD like this.
    03-21-2016 08:14 AM
  23. beachedwhale42's Avatar
    I ain't even mad. The 920 is over three years old, I've had mine for almost two. I can (and probably will) go get a 640 for $30. I was running 10586 last November and my 920 was slow, ran hot, and had *horrific* battery life, even after a hard reset. I chose to revert back to 8.1 and have been very happy with that. It's got a Snapdragon S4 for crying out loud...I'm not surprised that MS is dropping support for that. At some point you have to cut the old stuff off to allow future enhancements. Some Android phones lose support after one year, iPhones are usually good for about three, so I'd say the 3+ for the 920 has been more than sufficient.
    Paolo Ferrazza and Jeddic like this.
    03-21-2016 08:18 AM
  24. Paolo Ferrazza's Avatar
    I ain't even mad. The 920 is over three years old, I've had mine for almost two. I can (and probably will) go get a 640 for $30. I was running 10586 last November and my 920 was slow, ran hot, and had *horrific* battery life, even after a hard reset. I chose to revert back to 8.1 and have been very happy with that. It's got a Snapdragon S4 for crying out loud...I'm not surprised that MS is dropping support for that. At some point you have to cut the old stuff off to allow future enhancements. Some Android phones lose support after one year, iPhones are usually good for about three, so I'd say the 3+ for the 920 has been more than sufficient.
    What you said makes perfectly sense for most people.

    The problem is that Microsoft had the stupid idea to say once that even older phones would be updated so all the haters are now here to complain :) They would have probably changed their old phone soon but they love complaining so much :D
    03-21-2016 08:22 AM
  25. Kerry2112's Avatar
    We should help each other to understand the pros and cons of Win10 Insider Preview on 1302.

    If anyone of you has upgraded the to Win10 then please share

    1. Your experience while upgrading ?
    2. The Problems after upgrading to Win10 via Insider ?
    3. Device Performance
    4. Any noticeable impact to the daily use functionality
    Here are my experiences:

    1. Upgrading is a bit slow (maybe 90 minutes or so for me) but is smooth. Main issued I had was language support. When I upgraded to W10M, my speech/keyboard settings didn't update properly and I couldn't use Cortana. The only way to make it work was to hard reset the phone on W10M. Then I could change language settings (you have to wait for language packs to be downloaded and installed as updates to the OS, but no problems).

    2. Really, the only problem for me is that my 1320 freezes when exiting certain apps. For me the biggest culprit is the messaging app, followed by ESPN. The workaround I found was to NOT "back out" of an app. Instead, I long-press the back button and X the app to exit. Since I started doing that, no freezes. During my first try with W10M, I had problems after freezes with the device giving SD card errors after reboot, so I don't have any apps installed on the SD card now.

    3. For me, device performance is fine. I'm not a heavy user or gamer, but I see no issues and battery performance is comparable to my (short) experience on 8.1 (I only bought my 1320 last month, (ironically) specifically because I heard it was getting W10M.

    4. With the workaround noted above, my 1320 on W10M is a fine daily driver.

    Hope this helps!
    03-21-2016 08:36 AM
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