Is the new W10M the old Android?

[Muhammad Nura]

I remembered the days when windows phone used to be sleek, stable and beautiful, apps works as they supposed to, a ?GIG Ram windows phone can go against a GIG Ram android phone in performance, the only hold back was APP Gap. In comparison, android phones have more APPs than Windows, but the performance is poor, a reset is needed every now and then, bla bla bla?

Now, the new windows OS compared to the new android OS, is the vice versa, midrange and budget android phones works just like the old windows phones, plus more APPs for that matter, the windows OS on the other hand, lacks APPs and is now unstable, a reset is now needed every now and then.

I have been a windows fan since day 1, even now, my daily driver is windows, but it's hurting me, because the windows experience is gone. I used to convince android and iOS fans to join windows because of one or two things but now, I don?t know what's left for windows that is better than android or iOS.

 

[RumoredNow]

This thread has been moved to an appropriate forum...

As per this advice: Who Should Post in Ask a Question? WC members are free to post in all areas of the board. Please use Ask a Question only for time critical help issues that affect the immediate functionality of your device.

 

[EspHack]

lol its kind of funny how things have gone totally inverse, look at my list

-w10m is the old android, as you already explained
-new lumias are old monotonous galaxies, now the galaxies are the sleekest phones, see the s6-7 edge
-pureview? does it mean anything nowadays? they all have reached and surpassed the photography crown we nokia fans had
-double tap and glance? they got that and we somehow lost it(930 with no glance, 950 with no double tap)

but on the plus side we got continuum! yet another approach to the whole "tiny thing that replaces desktop" hype, you know, since desktops are such a thriving tech and so loved nowadays, the generations to come will obviously love having them clinging to life somehow

 

[Kram Sacul]

Pretty much. The first time I saw W10M I thought it looked like a wannabe ICS skin and performed as bad as my old Android phone from 2011. Whatever magic that drew me to WP is gone.

 

[a5cent]

I'm sorry to somewhat agree with this. It isn't true in every possible way, e.g. in terms of W10M's and Android's architectural approach to security (secure by design) W10M is still far superior to Android. However, in many other ways it appears that W10M has become what Android was.

Android started life as an adaptation of an OS that was designed 30 years ago and was built for desktops and servers. Google has since spent years and billions of dollars ironing out all the problems that such an approach (introducing "big-software" to resource constrained devices) causes. Project butter is one of the better known examples. Google has since at least "solved" Android's inefficiency issues, partly by improving the OS and partly through performance gains achieved by the mobile hardware industry, which makes those inefficiencies far less noticeable.

On the other hand, WP started out using Windows CE, which was specifically designed for small and resource constrained embedded devices that had to work for years, 24/7, without ever requiring a reboot. As a result, the performance and reliability of those WP7 devices, with single core CPUs and 256MB of RAM, was outstanding. MS has now taken the same step with WM which Android took back in 2008. W10M is now also an adaptation of an OS that was designed 30 years ago and was built for desktops and servers.

The Android team favored their "big software" approach primarily due to time-to-market concerns. Building upon something that already exists and is proven is just far faster and cheaper. W10M now also benefits economically from its synergies with W10, but given MS' UWP strategy, it also comes with a few technological and strategic advantages that the Android team didn't have. Unfortunately, it also comes with all the negatives, and in contrast to the Android team, MS is just starting to wrestle with those.

Yes, in that sense WM is now what Android was.

 

[Scotty_doesknow]

Back in 2002ish, Windows mobile aka pocket pc held close to 50% market share with the main focus on business. Ironically, history is now repeating itself with W10 returning towards business/productivity. In other words, windows has become windows. Proof of this can be seen on the market now in the Kangaroo device. This is driving the evolution into continuum with the release of OEM driven pocket pcs with docks.

 

[hprvez]

Windows phone 8 is based on NT, so no, that's not why it was faster than 10. Wm10 was rushed and has still to be stabilized, instead they took their time to develop WP7 and 8 in fact they were stable from the beginning and features came after

 

[a5cent]

Windows phone 8 is based on NT, so no, that's not why it was faster than 10. Wm10 was rushed and has still to be stabilized, instead they took their time to develop WP7 and 8 in fact they were stable from the beginning and features came after

Nope, nope and nope.

The only way to think WP8 is based on NT is by incorrectly assuming that WP8 and NT sharing the same kernel means one is based on the other. The kernel is a relatively small part of the OS, so that's akin to saying the design of a Cessna light plane is based on the design of a Ford mustang, because they both have tires.

With WP8.1 and W8, both OSes started sharing API interface definitions, but the code that implemented them was, for the most part, still specific to each OS. With W10M and W10 both OSes now share not only the API interface definitions, but also the code that implements them. That's the first time this can be said of all the components that both W10M and W10 share. And yes, like I said, that's exactly the situation Android started out with in 2008.

You're right that W10M was rushed to market, but so was W7 and so was W8. If you still think that market pressure is the only cause for the issues we're seeing with W10M, then you've not understood something.

 

[telglo]

Just a little light joke. " It isn't true in every possible way, e.g. in terms of W10M's and Android's architectural approach to security (secure by design) W10M is still far superior to Android." Sometimes I feel like my phone is so secure that even I can't even access the most basic phone features like Wi-Fi and or already installed apps. I do agree with the thread topic. Windows is now the original Android.

 

[Qtweeder]

gone are the days you refer to, when software was generally finished before release, we are in a time, where a lot of companies, not just MS, deem it ok to use the paying public as guinea pigs, the beta generation! updates all the damn time, too often.

 

[cracgor]

gone are the days you refer to, when software was generally finished before release, we are in a time, where a lot of companies, not just MS, deem it ok to use the paying public as guinea pigs, the beta generation! updates all the damn time, too often.

Being guinea pigs isn't as bad when it is a new feature or the basic functions of the software work. For example, Siri and Cortana can stay beta forever, because they are not necessary. Another example is Gmail which stayed beta forever, but it worked well as an email client. It is not the same for an operating system like Windows 10 Mobile, which the user just needs to work.

 

[eusty]

gone are the days you refer to, when software was generally finished before release

You must have rose coloured glasses!! Even pre-PC computers were released with incomplete firmware and full of bugs. It's a case of the marketing/production guys making promises without speaking to the engineers.

 

[Krystianpants]

It has definitely been the case. Even something like my 950XL shows signs of issues at times. Sure it may run well on the production build but that's also running the non-merged kernel. So Threshold is actually more optimized for the phone hardware at this point. And if you have issues in that area, prepare for a fun time with redstone. .

I'm typically one of those people that is pretty understanding of the scenario i'm in by using the latest and greatest builds. But I'd also love to see some more tools MS implements for users so that they don't have to do hardware resets. Verification tools against the OS and Apps. And tools that will fix corruption and other things. I'm at a point where I am thinking of just rolling back to production. The new UI polishing and features in the new redstone builds are great but I have reached a point where the bad is starting to outweigh the good.

And don't get me started on the Desktop version of insider builds.

I'm actually starting to lose a bit of faith in MS. Especially after the whole forced upgrades fiasco. While technically they were on the edge of legitimate, MS gave no clear indication to users that they must take certain actions to stop it. They sort of tricked them.

Then there's all this miscommunication between what they are doing with phones and what they are supporting. And the fact that they completely dropped any productivity based feature development for continuum from the anniversary edition. This will basically mean OEMs launching continuum based phones with anniversary version of windows 10 mobile will still have the same continuum from the very beginning. It has some enhancements but none that are assisting productivity. Support for xbox controller and touch screens isn't really going to help someone who needs 2 windows open side by side to get some work done. Someone who needs their browser to display a webpage before the sun sets. And when they do finally make enhancements it will be an entire YEAR before OEMs will get the redstone 2 update, not to mention the MS hardware. So you will have to be an insider and deal with lots of stuff just to get some extra features.

Think about this for a moment though. Windows 10 m currently only supports a specific set of hardware. Android has always supported a huge variety. They can't even get it optimized for only a small percentage of phones they support. They can't get 2 phones that are completely the same to behave the same. Some people have issues some don't. And it shouldn't matter if those 2 phones have different software/apps installed. The point of w10M is supposed to be security. And if an app can cause instability that doesn't scream security to me.

It's kind of sad because MS just keeps piling on the bad reputation. And reputation has always been one of their biggest issues. They did well for a while gaining back their rep, now they are forcing upgrades, not keeping their word... among other things.

 

[white_Shadoww]

I remember the early days of WM10. When they outed a video revealing their plans about Windows 10. They didn't show the UI much, but they showed a glimpse of I guess OneNote app on WM10. It showed the hamburger and I predicted that the UI was going to be very ugly. To which my comments were bashed here, saying 'Do you know what beta software is? Do you know anything about UI? How can u guess from a mere seconds long clip? and blah'. I was quite right back then. Even when I backed 8.1 Metro UI, people here said, 'Do you know what's the reason of WP market share? It's this Metro UI'. To which then, I dared everyone, okay, let's see how many customers Windows 10 brings to the table! And I was right again. 0.7% market share! Did you guys notice the setting UI and about menu of every app in WM10 is different/inconsistent? Actually not just that, the app bar commands in Outlook app are different than the one in Photos app.

That's not just it! Cortana worked well on WP8.1 better, really better, more fluid! And it's been 2 years since the launch of Cortana. I was pretty impressed. But after 2 years, nothing has changed much. For example, if you have an Android phone, ask Google Now, "Can I work out after lunch?" It will parse through a website and tell you exact answer. Ask Cortana, she opens up a Bing search. I can do that! Don't need Cortana!

The bright and lively colors in WP8.1 are replaced with dull counterparts and dull grey version! I bet MS spent more time and devs in making the UI ugly than polishing up the existing things. I can go on, but the list would be endless. Nevertheless, nothing can be done now. End of a beautiful OS!

 

[a5cent]

To which my comments were bashed here, saying 'Do you know what beta software is? Do you know anything about UI? How can u guess from a mere seconds long clip? and blah'. I was quite right back then. Even when I backed 8.1 Metro UI, people here said, 'Do you know what's the reason of WP market share? It's this Metro UI'. To which then, I dared everyone, okay, let's see how many customers Windows 10 brings to the table! And I was right again. 0.7% market share!

To be fair, you weren't the only one criticizing W10M's UI long before it was launched. There was more controversy in these forums then, than at any other time.

 

[Ten Four]

They can't even get it optimized for only a small percentage of phones they support. They can't get 2 phones that are completely the same to behave the same. Some people have issues some don't. And it shouldn't matter if those 2 phones have different software/apps installed. The point of w10M is supposed to be security. And if an app can cause instability that doesn't scream security to me.

I think the UWP philosophy is being driven by where the numbers and the profits are for Microsoft--desktop. There are inherent differences in software created by the size of devices and what hardware they can run that are very hard to overcome, and when you start out with a system optimized for desktop and then try to make it work on a phone you run into problems. Frankly, I'm not convinced UWP is really the future. I suspect we will see more and more computing devices everywhere, but I expect them to be more optimized for their form factor and function, not less optimized. In other words, something like a watch should be a great watch--don't try to make it a device that can crunch spreadsheets, because nobody wants to use a watch for that! There is a reason that most phones are slabs within a very limited range of size--billions of people have hands within a very limited range of size. Go too big and it gets unwieldy, go too small and you can't see the screen because we also have eyes with a limited range of vision. There are just inherent limitations to certain sizes and form factors, and trying to make a phone act like a desktop is silly. I do a lot of boating and I use all sorts of navigation gear, but I do not network the gear. I deliberately want each unit to be independent of all the other units because that gives me back ups and dependability. The entire system is not taken down when one unit fails, as would happen if Continuum was running your office system too. Phones are much more vulnerable to damage and theft than computers left at work in a cubicle. There's another physical factor that just can't be argued away by saying, "But, Continuum is so cool that everyone will want to use it." So, again Microsoft is struggling to create this amazing new software on these devices that can run your desktop programs when nobody (or very few) will ever actually be doing that. I really think it may be a huge mistake to create a single software package that can run a Hololens, a phone, a desktop, a laptop, and tablets. Why?

 

[curseoftheninja]

I have been a windows fan since day 1, even now, my daily driver is windows, but it's hurting me, because the windows experience is gone. I used to convince android and iOS fans to join windows because of one or two things but now, I don’t know what's left for windows that is better than android or iOS.

This is exactly my sentiment. I jumped ship to Android. My Galaxy s6 runs amazing. My 950 was constantly crashing.

It's a shame because WP8.1 was an awesome phone OS. I get the impression that MS is no longer concerned with creating the types of phones that I want. The pivot to business/enterprise is smart, but that's not the reason I want a phone.