So... does this "paradigm shift" mean Microsoft is abandoning us?

[dgr_874]

See... this is what I take issue with.

Yes, grapevine rep is bad... but that's entirely controllable. When things are going bad on Apple's front, they show off cumulative sales... which is sneaky as all getout, but it keeps consumer confidence strong. All those celebrity endorsements that Apple pays to have can be had by Microsoft as well... their "Shot on iPhone" campaign to convince people that Apple's cameras aren't crap hasn't given them the "best smartphone camera" in too many places, but it has given them the heavyweight champion belt in "most popular camera"... which they wear like a badge... also which increases consumer confidence. Finally, Apple knows how to commit to something... do something, stick to it, and develop it until it's polished. They understand grapevine control better than anyone else in the business.

These aren't hard things to do... pay off a couple celebs to appear in ads showing off the amazing camera capabilities of Windows Phones, pay some engineering students/CEOs to show up in commercials where they dock their phone into the Continuum Dock or NexDock and showing off photo editing through Polarr, composing music in Figure, or compiling actual programs through #Code, create ads to emphasize just how neat an app that runs on WP, W10, HoloLens and X1 is... create ads to show off unknown great apps in the ecosystem - people LOVE to see the little guy getting supported by the big guy.

There's some very simple, cheap solutions to grapevine control that can greatly change how people see Windows Phone. Giving up on consumers, dropping products like the Band 2... Microsoft's workin' on a pretty cloudy future.

I'm pretty sure they tried some of that already to no avail. Remember the Jessica Alba presentation? How horrible was that?

 

[Chintan Gohel]

See... this is what I take issue with.

Yes, grapevine rep is bad... but that's entirely controllable. When things are going bad on Apple's front, they show off cumulative sales... which is sneaky as all getout, but it keeps consumer confidence strong. All those celebrity endorsements that Apple pays to have can be had by Microsoft as well... their "Shot on iPhone" campaign to convince people that Apple's cameras aren't crap hasn't given them the "best smartphone camera" in too many places, but it has given them the heavyweight champion belt in "most popular camera"... which they wear like a badge... also which increases consumer confidence. Finally, Apple knows how to commit to something... do something, stick to it, and develop it until it's polished. They understand grapevine control better than anyone else in the business.

These aren't hard things to do... pay off a couple celebs to appear in ads showing off the amazing camera capabilities of Windows Phones, pay some engineering students/CEOs to show up in commercials where they dock their phone into the Continuum Dock or NexDock and showing off photo editing through Polarr, composing music in Figure, or compiling actual programs through #Code, create ads to emphasize just how neat an app that runs on WP, W10, HoloLens and X1 is... create ads to show off unknown great apps in the ecosystem - people LOVE to see the little guy getting supported by the big guy.

There's some very simple, cheap solutions to grapevine control that can greatly change how people see Windows Phone. Giving up on consumers, dropping products like the Band 2... Microsoft's workin' on a pretty cloudy future.

Apple can and does do all that because the iphone is their main source of revenue - something like over half. Obviously their main costs for advertising are for their main source of revenue.

With Microsoft, a software company, their main source of revenue is software and continues to be in that field. I doubt they receive a lot of revenue from their hardware sectors such as the surface line, mobile, band and others.

 

[TLRtheory]

I'm pretty sure they tried some of that already to no avail. Remember the Jessica Alba presentation? How horrible was that?

This?

I actually think that was great, and that Windows Phone would be in much better shape socially if there was more of this plastered all over TV. Though I typically don't speak of the marketing management degree I picked up on the way to the bigger ones in software engineering, a big takeaway from those marketing courses were how much impact lies in knowing a product will be believed in, supported and developed in name recognition.

On that subject, their absolute unwillingness to consider a recognizable name is hurting more than they know. Yeah, I can point out most any Lumia and know exactly what it is by it's model, but I'm also an exception. To the general public, the Microsoft Lumia 950XL is far too much of a mouthful... so much that it's a tough sale on that principal alone. Lumia Icon was great... and although they made it DOA by releasing it as a carrier exclusive, that was the closest they came to figuring out the secret to why people will just assume iPhone 7 or Galaxy S7 comes with polish.

If; instead of having the Nokia Lumia 64500.3d66alphaXL (yes, I know I'm exaggerating) as our moniker we instead were at the Lumia Icon 5, it would instill a greater sense of focus and trust in it's users instead of the pure, uncut convolution we have now. They'd know it's a brand Microsoft believes in, and cares about enough to release in iterations - ironing out issues and improving the product along the way. If Microsoft paid real close attention, they might notice this happening within their own Surface brand now - which is selling well enough that even the most biased of Surface critics are taking notice.

It's crazy how quickly Microsoft could turn this around with a well-advertised Windows Mobile device that's spread across all major carriers. They could even piggyback off the wild success of the Surface lineup and release that Surface Phone that people are already hyped for. Then the Surface Phone 2. They need to take that same grade of commitment they have in their Surface convertibles, put it in Windows Mobile and [B}keep it there[/B]. Take a card out of Apple's book and pay for those big name endorsements/partnerships. By Surface Phone 3, if they were to keep up that same level of dedication through advertisement, FW/SW updates and support... an improved status of Windows Mobile would be guaranteed.

 

[a5cent]

This?

<video snipped>

I actually think that was great, and that Windows Phone would be in much better shape socially if there was more of this plastered all over TV.

Ugh. That campaign was terrible. The day her contract expired she went back to using an iPhone and pictures of that popped up all over the web. Even in mainstream news. She got paid to promote WP8, but the net effect she ended up having was the exact opposite. The message she actually promoted was "the only way I'd use WP8 is if MS paid me to".

I despise that many U.S. citizens are so incredibly gullible and ignorant when it comes to advertising, celebrities, or people with money. I do think it takes a little bit of stupidity to believe people necessarily support/like the products they are paid to promote. For some reason many people feel that fame and large bank accounts are a better way to judge credibility than just considering what people say or do. Unfortunately, it is what it is and this type of thing does seem to work in the U.S. Just this particular campaign backfired.

Still, you can't advertise a faulty product to success. Advertising is really only effective if the product has a few stand out features, or if it doesn't, it must at least be on par with the competition. W10M just doesn't fit the bill. Until it does I'd say advertising is a complete waste of money.

 

[tgp]

Still, you can't advertise a faulty product to success. Advertising is really only effective if the product has a few stand out features, or if it doesn't, it must at least be on par with the competition. W10M just doesn't fit the bill. Until it does I'd say advertising is a complete waste of money.

I thought I was the only person on the face of the earth who thought this about Windows Phone! Aggressive advertising works for Apple and Samsung because they have a product that delivers. I think Microsoft has quite a ways to go in that department.

 

[Guzzler3]

It's crazy how quickly Microsoft could turn this around with a well-advertised Windows Mobile device that's spread across all major carriers. They could even piggyback off the wild success of the Surface lineup and release that Surface Phone that people are already hyped for. Then the Surface Phone 2. They need to take that same grade of commitment they have in their Surface convertibles, put it in Windows Mobile and [B}keep it there[/B]. Take a card out of Apple's book and pay for those big name endorsements/partnerships. By Surface Phone 3, if they were to keep up that same level of dedication through advertisement, FW/SW updates and support... an improved status of Windows Mobile would be guaranteed.

I've always said, if MS would do a better ad campaign of showing off the features of a windows phone, and how it integrates with the desktop (contacts, photos, OneNote, Word, Excel, messaging, etc.) people will take notice. Their ads are so blas? and imitative of other companies ad campaigns, that no one takes notice.

I wish I could find an ad that MS did in a European country that was a nice animation showing off the features of WP8.1. Even though I couldn't understand what they were saying, the visuals was enough to go "Wow! That's Cool!". Which is why I believe that Windows phone did better everywhere but here in the USA. Different marketing teams for different parts of the world. They should have looked at the places where Windows phone sold well, looked at how it was advertised, then duplicated it in areas where it wasn't selling.

I still get people who look at my phone and say "What's that?" and I tell them it's a Windows Phone and they say "Windows phone, really?!?!?! I didn't know there was such a thing."

 

[dgr_874]

Ya, that's the one. Like a5cent said, she was only paid to be there and had no enthusiasm for it. I could tell as soon as she stepped on the stage she didn't want to be there. I remember the news stories that followed when she went back to her iphone. People laughed about how windows phone was so bad that you had to pay people to use it. That banter is super hard to spin into the positive.

I'm right there with you about the platfom. I would like nothing better than to be successful. But, I think the time for that is over with. They have a great product with a great interface. I loved my windows phones. But, it came way too late. Most people who want a smartphone already had an Android or Iphone. I would wager that 99% would not switch to W10M unless it offered something drastic in order to change their minds. Who wants to redo all their contacts, buy all new apps, redo all their music, and learn new gestures just to change to something that's roughly equal to what they have now? And lets be honest, W10M is not equal to what the others offer for many reasons already discussed in the forum.

As a consumer, and user, of W10M it disgusts me what they are doing to the phone. However, as a user of W10 platform I understand why they are doing it this way. I think they are trying to just skip past the smartphone to whatever is the next technological breakthrough. Smart moves for the company in the long term, Horrible for the consumer in the short term.

 

[dgr_874]

I've always said, if MS would do a better ad campaign of showing off the features of a windows phone, and how it integrates with the desktop (contacts, photos, OneNote, Word, Excel, messaging, etc.) people will take notice. Their ads are so blas? and imitative of other companies ad campaigns, that no one takes notice.

I wish I could find an ad that MS did in a European country that was a nice animation showing off the features of WP8.1. Even though I couldn't understand what they were saying, the visuals was enough to go "Wow! That's Cool!". Which is why I believe that Windows phone did better everywhere but here in the USA. Different marketing teams for different parts of the world. They should have looked at the places where Windows phone sold well, looked at how it was advertised, then duplicated it in areas where it wasn't selling.

I still get people who look at my phone and say "What's that?" and I tell them it's a Windows Phone and they say "Windows phone, really?!?!?! I didn't know there was such a thing."

But can you really use integration as a selling point now? All Microsoft software is available on iPhone and Androids. I use all three daily, and i find almost no difference in my work flow(other than having to use 3rd party software on W10M).

I find people love the W10M interface a lot when they first see it. Then they ask to use Snapchat, or whatever other software isn't available and they get turned off right there. I'm dissapointed too. I'm the last out of about 10 people still using W10M (and it's no longer my primary after the Band crap). I'm looking forward to the next big thing in mobile that I think Microsoft is well placed to compete in.

 

[TLRtheory]

The day her contract expired she went back to using an iPhone and pictures of that popped up all over the web. Even in mainstream news. She got paid to promote WP8, but the net effect she ended up having was the exact opposite. The message she actually promoted was "they only way I'd use WP8 is if MS paid me to".

Okay. See I didn't know of the controversy surrounding it, just the ad itself. Purely assessing the content of the ad, I do still think that *kind* of content would be helpful in larger amounts.

 

[a5cent]

Re: So... does this &amp;quot;paradigm shift&amp;quot; mean Microsoft is abandoning us?

^ I don't, but we can agree to disagree . IMHO MS must first convince a base of enthusiasts and early (re)adopters that W10M is a great thing and desirable. Without that base, any interest generated by advertising will evaporate as soon as people ask their tech-interested family member or friend what they think about this newfangled MS smartphone. Most of the enthusiast WP/W10M fan base has vanished. Not even 1 in 100 people would recommend W10M at this point. The real killer is that almost everyone else would outright discourage such a purchase. IMHO that negates anything MS could achieve with advertising.

 

[hacer619]

This is how I see the "paradigm shift". So first of all I have to say that Microsoft did an amazing thing by unifying its OS (Windows 10). which you know by One Platform, One Store on different device categories. Now, windows 10 mobile is the platforms for phones.

So is it wise by Microsoft to abandon the phone segment? I would say no, but they are undergoing a retrenchment and by retrenchment I mean they will focus on a market segment the will succeed in. That is the Enterprise.

So, will they abandon the consumer market? Not as you think or read on the internet. They will keep the platform for the consumers, those who want nothing but windows. This means that if you want a Windows phone you'll have to grab a phone that is intended for the enterprise.

Think of the HP elite x3. You may find it with some of the top hardware on the market but it is marketed and intended for businesses. So, you can grab one even if it is not intended to be a consumer phone.

So why not abandon Windows 10 mobile? If you are a daily internet reader you will have noticed that a lot are mentioning the "next big thing". Something that will introduce a new category and will be the next personal computing device. So abandoning Windows 10 mobile is not a good idea and keeping it running with a low market share will at least pave the way for Microsoft to jump quickly to the next trend of devices which is the 'next big thing'.

How will it succeed with a smaller store and less developers on the platform?
let's take Apple as an example: they have the iPhone with around 1.5 million apps in the store and an amazingly huge dev support and on average any decent app needs about 6 months of development to get it usable and ready to be downloaded from the store. Now, let's pretend the next big thing is the apple tv (even though this device exists in the market, let us pretend it doesn't). For, apple it requires a completely new dev written apps for this next big thing (apple tv), you can't just use iPhone or mac or watch apps in the apple tv because it runs a completely different OS.
This is where Microsoft is the strongest of them all. A universal platform will make Microsoft to continue to what it offers (apps, services, maybe UI, etc.) with what is referred to as the 'next big thing'. If you didn't get this, it means the next big thing device from Microsoft will have the services in windows 10 and the same store with the same apps running on it. Apps my need UI tweaking or modification by devs to make them perfect but not new rewritten apps.

what is still unclear is will Microsoft continue to use the CONSUMER feedback within the windows insiders program to improve the platform or just concentrate on what is related to businesses.

 

[dgr_874]

All good points!

If Microsoft could just stabilize everything for a while and let what little Dev interest is left grow for a few years instead of rebooting, we might have something good on our hands...

 

[PerfectReign]

with Microsoft, a software company, their main source of revenue is software and continues to be in that field. I doubt they receive a lot of revenue from their hardware sectors such as the surface line, mobile, band and others.

That's correct. We enterprise customers pay millions for services and software. I have 160 Windows servers (not sure how many cores ATM), my company has 77,000 Office 365 licenses, we have developer licenses, SQL server licenses, and we just paid a Microsoft tech to be onsite for two weeks to help us install, configure and train on SCOM, SCCM, and SCORTH.

By comparison, my department has only bought fifteen Surface pro 3 and 4 devices.

I think what MS wants is to ensure a mobile/cloud first strategy where customers use services regardless of hardware. I had my former TAM tell us they didn't care whether we used O365 and the various business services on a PC running Windows, a PC running MacOS, a mobile device or an Ipad/Android tablet.

Sent from mTalk

 

[hacer619]

Thank you! I have been reading and analyzing a lot about this topic. however, I don't think there will be another reboot. In the end there might be smartphones that wont receive new builds due to outdated hardware but not a reboot.

However, I do agree with you about the non upgradable wp8 devices if that is what you were pointing to.

since the retrenchment Microsoft have nothing to lose if they let those devices upgrade. Even if they run slower, at the same time they'll win more windows 10 (mobile, but still considered) users rather that not offering the upgrade and making users switch to other platforms for the sake of what they refer as "these devices did not achieve the optimum performance".

I would also agree that Microsoft sometimes have dumb moves. They may not have a critical impact but instead losing consumer trust.

 

[Chintan Gohel]

How will it succeed with a smaller store and less developers on the platform?
let's take Apple as an example: they have the iPhone with around 1.5 billion apps in the store and an amazingly huge dev support and on average any decent app needs about 6 months of development to get it usable and ready to be downloaded from the store. Now, let's pretend the next big thing is the apple tv (even though this device exists in the market, let us pretend it doesn't). For, apple it requires a completely new dev written apps for this next big thing (apple tv), you can't just use iPhone or mac or watch apps in the apple tv because it runs a completely different OS.
This is where Microsoft is the strongest of them all. A universal platform will make Microsoft to continue to what it offers (apps, services, maybe UI, etc.) with what is referred to as the 'next big thing'. If you didn't get this, it means the next big thing device from Microsoft will have the services in windows 10 and the same store with the same apps running on it. Apps my need UI tweaking or modification by devs to make them perfect but not new rewritten apps.

what is still unclear is will Microsoft continue to use the CONSUMER feedback within the windows insiders program to improve the platform or just concentrate on what is related to businesses.

1.5 billion or million apps? The billion sounds too high :grincry:

You're right on the UWP idea, MS at the moment are really ahead in being prepared for the next form factor

Even though the mobile aspect of windows is shrinking and being retargeted to enterprise, I believe even some individuals in businesses can be insiders and support. Most of the changes are also reflected from the pc side of windows which does have a large user base

 

[hacer619]

fixed! and Thanks for pointing this out. I was probably thinking devices when I typed it.

 

[kaktus1389]

We do not yet know whats in RS2, initial reports suggest only continuum based enhancements, basically features which would lure business users and make continuum more practical and then may be few more security features etc, in short only enterprise features.

So name a feature that would help consumers? I don't see why wouldn't continuum be attractive for a part of consumers as well...

 

[techiez]

So name a feature that would help consumers?

Interactive live tiles(music controls etc)
Multi window.
App lock/ability to hide/locks selected photos or apps.
Expand cortana to more countries.
Edge improvements
Make MS own app tiles transparent, they look ugly at this moment n ruin the start screen.
Multiple sound profiles(like in symbian)

n so on.....

Continuum as it is, is not yet ready to take the world by storm.

 

[Guzzler3]

But can you really use integration as a selling point now? All Microsoft software is available on iPhone and Androids. I use all three daily, and i find almost no difference in my work flow(other than having to use 3rd party software on W10M).

I find people love the W10M interface a lot when they first see it. Then they ask to use Snapchat, or whatever other software isn't available and they get turned off right there. I'm dissapointed too. I'm the last out of about 10 people still using W10M (and it's no longer my primary after the Band crap). I'm looking forward to the next big thing in mobile that I think Microsoft is well placed to compete in.

Good points, now. But way back when it was just WP8, they missed a huge opportunity to capitalize on its features. Had they done so, and the sales had been better, then there might have been a bigger incentive for more developers to port their apps to this platform.

But sadly it's all water under the bridge now. MS screwed up, and is now screwing us. Mainly because the platform was a "moving target" and programmers kept seeing things change to much (interface guidelines, API's changing, etc.)

Now it's settled down, a bit, the only idea I have left for MS to help this platform to make it back to the consumer side is to contact say the top 20 or so mainstream apps that aren't on this platform (Snapchat, Tinder, etc.) and say "We would like to port your app to this platform. We will do it for free, if you give us the source code (under NDA). We will support it for one year, in house, and we will also embed one of our programmers at your home location to educate your in house programmers about the platform so it will be a smooth transition from us supporting the code back to you. We will also provide Visual Studio for free for X number years, to show off how easy it is to "write once, port many"."

Microsoft will take a hit, monetarily wise doing this, but as the saying goes "You have to spend money, to make money, in the long term". But I can see Steve Balmer going nuts in the board meetings, throwing chairs and such if this was proposed.

 

[david003]

With all the serious bugs being released into production in Windows Phone 10, I think it must be deliberate. It's hard to believe that Microsoft engineers could be that incompetent.

It's almost like when a radio station gets taken over and they start broadcasting nasty noises to get their listeners to go away and stop listening.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stunting_(broadcasting)

To their current Windows Phone users, they don't want them anymore. Please stop being our customers. Go away.

To what end, I don't know, though.