So... does this "paradigm shift" mean Microsoft is abandoning us?

tgp

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But at the end of the day, what apps does a person use?

You are one out of a couple billion smartphone users. There are plenty like you, but plenty who use a lot more apps regularly. Plus, even if the same apps are available on WP, they are often of lower quality. Just because they are there doesn't mean they are equal.
 

libra89

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You are one out of a couple billion smartphone users. There are plenty like you, but plenty who use a lot more apps regularly. Plus, even if the same apps are available on WP, they are often of lower quality. Just because they are there doesn't mean they are equal.

This right here!

I tried Windows 10 Mobile as my daily driver while waiting for my preorder to come in. I found that yes, W10M has most of the apps I use and/or there are good substitutes but it was lacking 1 app and the other app is there but it's bad.

Reading is one of my favorite activities to do on my phone. OverDrive and Kindle apps are both there but they are both pretty poor (especially the former). Why would someone choose to read a book on an app that crashes? It also didn't always sync properly either. If I hit the back button while in the app, it can take me back in said book.

As a chronic switcher, I like that I can start reading a book on Android, have where I last stopped synced, and then start from said place on iOS.

Edit: The only way to get around this is to use Edge, which works well, but it is a battery drain. :/ As for the other app, it's a social app so lacking push notifications kind of sucks since you have to use Edge. It's just annoying, but the book thing annoys me more.
 

HeyCori

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The worst part of Microsoft's mobile strategy is their lack of strategy. Regardless of how smartphones evolve, that evolution will be driven by software. That is one area where the consumer is in the driver seat. Whatever is the next big thing in mobile tech, its success will be determined by its necessity. A piece of hardware isn't the next big thing until software gives us a reason to use it everyday. It's akin to how Pokemon Go took augmented reality to the next level. However, with each passing quarter, the amount of software that people deem relevant to daily life fades from Microsoft's platform. Ebay, Snapchat, PayPal, and many other apps have either left the platform, haven't been updated, or are at risk of suddenly disappearing. You never know when app X will just be gone from the platform, and that's on top of the current app gap. When that paradigm does shift, consumers will follow the software. And it doesn't look like that software will be available on Microsoft's platforms. Worse yet, it doesn't seem clear how MS is going to correct their current course.
 

sinime

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You are one out of a couple billion smartphone users. There are plenty like you, but plenty who use a lot more apps regularly. Plus, even if the same apps are available on WP, they are often of lower quality. Just because they are there doesn't mean they are equal.

Well, almost 2/3rds of smart phone users download 0 apps per month. And...

Yes, there probably is an app for just about any task a smartphone user hopes to complete, but our recent U.S. Mobile App Report shows that a staggering 42 percent of all app time spent on smartphones occurs on the individual’s single most used app. And nearly three out of every four minutes of app usage occurs on one of the individual’s top four apps.

Source:
https://www.comscore.com/Insights/D...ne-Owners-Download-At-Least-One-App-Per-Month
 

tgp

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The worst part of Microsoft's mobile strategy is their lack of strategy.

My company is very deeply involved in Microsoft's enterprise department, mainly in Skype for Business, Office 365, and Dynamics. Microsoft is moving full steam ahead in those departments. Frankly, our current paradigm is going to be around for a long time yet! From the way business is moving, I do not see mobile being all that important, not in having their own mobile devices at least. Their software is big on iOS and Android, and I do not believe it is worth it for Microsoft to put a lot of capital into trying too hard to push their own mobile platform.

Four of my colleagues were at Ignite last week, and they came back with reports of Microsoft having their cannons firing. Don't worry folks; they're doing fine! We here are mobile fans, so we tend to base our views on that. But mobile is insignificant at this point. In fact, it will be years down the road until it does matter, as long as Microsoft at least has their services on mobile, at which they currently are doing very well.
 

ubizmo

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Well, almost 2/3rds of smart phone users download 0 apps per month. And...



Source:
https://www.comscore.com/Insights/D...ne-Owners-Download-At-Least-One-App-Per-Month

That's a good point that shows that it's extremely important for a mobile platform to have those four top apps that most users spend most of their time on. And those apps have to be as good as their versions on other platforms.

Most people buy the same short list of groceries every week. There are thousands of items in the supermarket that they never even look at; many that they don't even know what they are. So how do supermarkets stay in business? The app problem doesn't exist because individuals are constantly using a large number of apps. It exists because there are so many users whose top four apps are different. And it exists because some of the most popular top four apps either aren't available at all or are noticeably inferior to their Android and iOS counterparts.

And as a general thing, people prefer "name brand" to third-party knockoffs. Going back to the supermarket analogy, if I'm a fan of Life breakfast cereal, I'm probably not going to like a store that only sells a generic cereal that's kinda similar to it.
 

Laura Knotek

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Well, almost 2/3rds of smart phone users download 0 apps per month. And...



Source:
https://www.comscore.com/Insights/D...ne-Owners-Download-At-Least-One-App-Per-Month
The issue here isn't how many apps downloaded in a month. I might not download any new apps for 6 months. However, that's because I already downloaded the apps I wanted and do indeed use. However, with iOS/Android, most likely if there is some new app, especially something local, it will be available if I want it.
 

Kevin Rush

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The issue here isn't how many apps downloaded in a month. I might not download any new apps for 6 months. However, that's because I already downloaded the apps I wanted and do indeed use. However, with iOS/Android, most likely if there is some new app, especially something local, it will be available if I want it.

I just had a thought, in response ... We don't need to be
"Mindless Followers", destined to be stuck following the madness of the mass crowds. We can do better, we can expect more. Maybe the other OS fans could focus on advocating to improve their favorite OS, rather than spending time trying to drag down Microsoft.

Don't give up.
Best Wishes.
 

mrpuny

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I just had a thought, in response ... We don't need to be
"Mindless Followers", destined to be stuck following the madness of the mass crowds. We can do better, we can expect more. Maybe the other OS fans could focus on advocating to improve their favorite OS, rather than spending time trying to drag down Microsoft.

Don't give up.
Best Wishes.

I've been using Android as my daily driver for quite a few months now, but I still keep a Lumia 640 running current production WM10 which I enjoy playing with from time to time. Every once in a while, I think about about swapping my SIM back into it (though I haven't). And we have days like today where Google makes a series of big announcements, and the response from both the Technorati and the world at large seems to be largely a collective "meh", indicating that for all their dominance, Google/Android really doesn't have much enthusiasm behind it unlike Apple/iOS. And it frustrates me that MS isn't doing better:

It's like MS enthusiasts are Scottish, Google fans are the English and the mobile web is "fresh air"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1tJJO_pVvQ
 

techiez

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I think we are going in circles discussing this very topic again and again on these forums.

No, I do not think they are going to abandon us because why would they develop Red Stone 2 otherwise? Because they have too much time, money and other kinds of resources? I do no think so.

Yes, market share is shrinking, but does this really matter so much? People who like Windows 10 Mobile will stay, people who don't will go. Maybe very few Android and iOS users could come over every little while, but until MS doesn't push developers with all the power they've got as they are I believe the largest software company in the world, there won't be many new people coming.

P.S.: I would trust HP and Alcatel that they know what they're doing as I do not think they would make those phones just to throw some money through the window...

We do not yet know whats in RS2, initial reports suggest only continuum based enhancements, basically features which would lure business users and make continuum more practical and then may be few more security features etc, in short only enterprise features.
 

techiez

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The worst part of Microsoft's mobile strategy is their lack of strategy. Regardless of how smartphones evolve, that evolution will be driven by software. That is one area where the consumer is in the driver seat. Whatever is the next big thing in mobile tech, its success will be determined by its necessity. A piece of hardware isn't the next big thing until software gives us a reason to use it everyday. It's akin to how Pokemon Go took augmented reality to the next level. However, with each passing quarter, the amount of software that people deem relevant to daily life fades from Microsoft's platform. Ebay, Snapchat, PayPal, and many other apps have either left the platform, haven't been updated, or are at risk of suddenly disappearing. You never know when app X will just be gone from the platform, and that's on top of the current app gap. When that paradigm does shift, consumers will follow the software. And it doesn't look like that software will be available on Microsoft's platforms. Worse yet, it doesn't seem clear how MS is going to correct their current course.

so in short andromeda is better placed than W10m with continuum in consumer space.
 

a5cent

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That still doesn't answer my question, but frankly I think none of us have the answer for this. Where does MS draw the line, and what makes up that line. Money only? Shareholders? Something else?

Indeed. When can it ever make sense to tell millions of paying consumers and potential future customers "we're no longer focusing on your needs"?

Assuming these communications are occurring rationally and methodically, then it only makes sense if you expect that unusual message to cause less harm (overall) than all possible alternatives. Even if one of those alternatives is communicating nothing at all.

I'm taking this as MS basically saying:

Hey, stop expecting us to fix the app gap you all can't stop complaining about. We can't do it. We've stopped trying.

Furthermore, please get off our backs for not providing every one of our apps (and the best version of it) for W10M. We thought about it once but that is not happening.

Finally, please stop ******** about the lack of compelling devices for consumers. If you think we're failing to provide that, it's only because we don't want to continue building smartphones with razor thin-margins for consumers. It's not that we couldn't afford to do that. We could. It's just that investing that same money into other endeavors provides us with better results. Investments must either translate into profits or a strengthened market position for MS. Investments in W10M achieve this to a far lesser degree than the alternatives, so the money is being diverted to other tasks.

If you're fine with W10M under these conditions, then you're welcome to hop on board, but please, stop expecting us to do stuff with W10M we can't do. Stop thinking of W10M as an alternative to Android/iOS. We don't. You shouldn't either.
 

PerfectReign

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In taking to one of my Microsoft TAMs, they have not "given up" on WP, rather are embracing other platforms. My TAM had switched from a 950xl to an Iphone 6s+xl (or something like that) because he could.

I am sticking with WP for now because i just like the integration better, use Continuum daily now, and way prefer the UI. Yesterday, I fired up my S6 and was shocked how hard it was to use. (This coming from a guy who has had Android phone since Eclair.)

I think the long term goal for MS is to conquer the cloud market. Doing that, they won't care what device - WM, Android, Ios - is being used


Sent from mTalk
 

adamjoshuhill

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That's a good point that shows that it's extremely important for a mobile platform to have those four top apps that most users spend most of their time on. And those apps have to be as good as their versions on other platforms.

Most people buy the same short list of groceries every week. There are thousands of items in the supermarket that they never even look at; many that they don't even know what they are. So how do supermarkets stay in business? The app problem doesn't exist because individuals are constantly using a large number of apps. It exists because there are so many users whose top four apps are different. And it exists because some of the most popular top four apps either aren't available at all or are noticeably inferior to their Android and iOS counterparts.

And as a general thing, people prefer "name brand" to third-party knockoffs. Going back to the supermarket analogy, if I'm a fan of Life breakfast cereal, I'm probably not going to like a store that only sells a generic cereal that's kinda similar to it.

It's also like saying "I wear a size 10 shoe, therefore all other sizes are irrelevant because I don't need them! No one really needs a size 9 shoe! That's so stupid!"
 

addicusbrown

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It is clear MS doesn't care about phones unless the user base is already large and established. Mobile to them is not what mobile to us is.

I doubt the people running MS even use these phones. I suspect they are all Android, Blackberry and Iphone users

For me it's shameful because I find my 1520 has become the perfect blend of a business and personal device. I hardly ever use my home pc or laptop. It has become the convergence device all these articles spout off about.
 

Ten Four

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I think the long term goal for MS is to conquer the cloud market. Doing that, they won't care what device - WM, Android, Ios - is being used
^^This^^ I don't think the smartphone form factor is going away, but eventually it will be nothing more than a small Chromebook-like device running apps from the cloud, which presumably will be everywhere. Look at how cloud-centric the new Google Pixel phones are. Look at how everyone is integrating AI into their phones, which requires the cloud to work well. I work for a SaaS company and that is the massive trend in enterprise for everything. Microsoft already leads or has a very strong presence in this space in certain areas like Office 365 and Azure. Many companies already have websites that are mobile friendly and work as well or better than many apps. That is the future.
 

Chintan Gohel

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Indeed. When can it ever make sense to tell millions of paying consumers and potential future customers "we're no longer focusing on your needs"?

Assuming these communications are occurring rationally and methodically, then it only makes sense if you expect that unusual message to cause less harm (overall) than all possible alternatives. Even if one of those alternatives is communicating nothing at all.

I'm taking this as MS basically saying:

Hey, stop expecting us to fix the app gap you all can't stop complaining about. We can't do it. We've stopped trying.

Furthermore, please get off our backs for not providing every one of our apps (and the best version of it) for W10M. We thought about it once but that is not happening.

Finally, please stop ******** about the lack of compelling devices for consumers. If you think we're failing to provide that, it's only because we don't want to continue building smartphones with razor thin-margins for consumers. It's not that we couldn't afford to do that. We could. It's just that investing that same money into other endeavors provides us with better results. Investments must either translate into profits or a strengthened market position for MS. Investments in W10M achieve this to a far lesser degree than the alternatives, so the money is being diverted to other tasks.

If you're fine with W10M under these conditions, then you're welcome to hop on board, but please, stop expecting us to do stuff with W10M we can't do. Stop thinking of W10M as an alternative to Android/iOS. We don't. You shouldn't either.

This is the most brutally honest message I've seen and you know what, it makes sense. Harsh as it is, it makes sense. We'll suffer of course, especially those where Nokia traditionally did well. The worldwide distribution network has been dismantled and current stocks are finishing in several countries.
 

TLRtheory

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Why businesses and not ordinary consumers?

Consumers can be motivated or demotivated easily by friends, family, colleagues and acquaintances. Their purchasing decision can be very finicky in the developed world while in the developing world they are more loyal but take longer in making decisions on which platform to go with.
See... this is what I take issue with.

Yes, grapevine rep is bad... but that's entirely controllable. When things are going bad on Apple's front, they show off cumulative sales... which is sneaky as all getout, but it keeps consumer confidence strong. All those celebrity endorsements that Apple pays to have can be had by Microsoft as well... their "Shot on iPhone" campaign to convince people that Apple's cameras aren't crap hasn't given them the "best smartphone camera" in too many places, but it has given them the heavyweight champion belt in "most popular camera"... which they wear like a badge... also which increases consumer confidence. Finally, Apple knows how to commit to something... do something, stick to it, and develop it until it's polished. They understand grapevine control better than anyone else in the business.

These aren't hard things to do... pay off a couple celebs to appear in ads showing off the amazing camera capabilities of Windows Phones, pay some engineering students/CEOs to show up in commercials where they dock their phone into the Continuum Dock or NexDock and showing off photo editing through Polarr, composing music in Figure, or compiling actual programs through #Code, create ads to emphasize just how neat an app that runs on WP, W10, HoloLens and X1 is... create ads to show off unknown great apps in the ecosystem - people LOVE to see the little guy getting supported by the big guy.

There's some very simple, cheap solutions to grapevine control that can greatly change how people see Windows Phone. Giving up on consumers, dropping products like the Band 2... Microsoft's workin' on a pretty cloudy future.
 

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