So... does this "paradigm shift" mean Microsoft is abandoning us?

mikepalma

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With all the serious bugs being released into production in Windows Phone 10, I think it must be deliberate. It's hard to believe that Microsoft engineers could be that incompetent.

It's almost like when a radio station gets taken over and they start broadcasting nasty noises to get their listeners to go away and stop listening.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stunting_(broadcasting)

To their current Windows Phone users, they don't want them anymore. Please stop being our customers. Go away.

To what end, I don't know, though.

No its not that insidious. MS is a major business w responsibilities to its shareholders. Windows phone (w10m) is a pitiful .5% player. So, MS wisely isn't wasting talent there. The B team of Gabe, Dona, and others are.assigned to w10m - they are not mean spirited, just less competent. The real talent is in Surface, xBox and the other profit centers so MS can make $ for its shareholders.
 

a5cent

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Re: So... does this "paradigm shift" mean Microsoft is abandoning us?

^ FUD.

We can agree that it's not an all-star team working on W10M (they did have that for WP7), but the rest is simply not true.

Gabe and/or Dona, who are managers for the insider program, have almost no say when it comes to things like QA, release schedules, or the actual implementation of OS components, so they are certainly not the right people to blame. They could be the smartest people on the planet and yet that would change very little in terms of software quality. Just because you know their names doesn't mean they are making all the important decisions. They hold PR and product management positions.

The issues with W10M were first and foremost a matter of time. Nothing more. I can guarantee that the engineers were begging to have the release of W10M postponed in order to fix problems, and that management wouldn't have it. The only way to suspect this is down to incompetent engineers is to know nothing about commercial software development.

The problems they have now are the result of having to test every little change on a gazillion devices (xbox, phones, desktops, HoloLens, Raspberry Pi, etc) and OSes (Server, IoT, mobile, Holographic, etc), and not having everything setup in a way to make this testing nightmare manageable. I suspect they will be working on such capabilities for quite some time yet.
 
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mikepalma

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Re: So... does this "paradigm shift" mean Microsoft is abandoning us?

^ FUD.



We can agree that it's not an all-star team working on W10M (they did have that for WP7), but the rest is simply not true.



Gabe and/or Dona, who are managers for the insider program, have almost no say when it comes to things like QA, release schedules, or the actual implementation of OS components, so they are certainly not the right people to blame. They could be the smartest people on the planet and yet that would change very little in terms of software quality. Just because you know their names doesn't mean they are making all the important decisions. They hold PR and product management positions.


The issues with W10M were first and foremost a matter of time. Nothing more. I can guarantee that the engineers were begging to have the release of W10M postponed in order to fix problems, and that management wouldn't have it. The only way to suspect this is down to incompetent engineers is to know nothing about commercial software development.



The problems they have now are the result of having to test every little change on a gazillion devices (xbox, phones, desktops, HoloLens, Raspberry Pi, etc) and OSes (Server, IoT, mobile, Holographic, etc), and not having everything setup in a way to make this testing nightmare manageable. I suspect they will be working on such capabilities for quite some time yet.

You obviously have no experience as a PMP or major project manager. Regardless you missed the point= profits matter to MS' board.
 

a5cent

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Re: So... does this "paradigm shift" mean Microsoft is abandoning us?

You obviously have no experience as a PMP or major project manager. Regardless you missed the point= profits matter to MS' board.

In addition to that not being true, it also doesn't matter, as Gabe and Dona aren't project managers. That profits matter is obvious, and not what I was refuting.
 

mikepalma

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Re: So... does this "paradigm shift" mean Microsoft is abandoning us?

In addition to that not being true, it also doesn't matter, as Gabe and Dona aren't project managers. That profits matter is obvious, and not what I was refuting.

Wrong as usual, but makes no difference...Dona is the "program chief" and MS focuses the real talent on the profit centers, like its Board directs it to do.
 

fatclue_98

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Continuum as it is, is not yet ready to take the world by storm.
You mean not ready to take the US by storm. In many countries access to a desktop-class browser on a larger display is gold. There are many folks who can only afford one computing device and it's usually a smartphone. Continuum can save these people trips to an internet cafe, or what us Cubans call "la cabina".
 

sumton

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i don't know but they are going to do what they are going to do and you should do what you have to do its your choice to stick around until this shift happen or move to something else until that shift happen, no one forcing anyone to stick to windows mobile do what you want.
 

techiez

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You mean not ready to take the US by storm. In many countries access to a desktop-class browser on a larger display is gold. There are many folks who can only afford one computing device and it's usually a smartphone. Continuum can save these people trips to an internet cafe, or what us Cubans call "la cabina".

Well I did mean the world, I know how Nadella stressed on the fact that continuum will be useful in developing countries and as I said, in its "current" form its not useful. its too limited for someone to invest in the setup, i.e. keyboard, mouse, moniter etc.
Anyone needing more than browsing and checking emails cant rely on continuum for his computing needs.

Probably in 2018 it might grow into something more practically useful.
 

fatclue_98

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Well I did mean the world, I know how Nadella stressed on the fact that continuum will be useful in developing countries and as I said, in its "current" form its not useful. its too limited for someone to invest in the setup, i.e. keyboard, mouse, moniter etc.
Anyone needing more than browsing and checking emails cant rely on continuum for his computing needs.

Probably in 2018 it might grow into something more practically useful.


(A) There's very little you can't do on a browser.
(B) You don't need a separate monitor, an HD TV will suffice.

Given the state of Windows apps for mobile, a browser accomplishes much more. If your needs require more, you shouldn't be on Windows 10 Mobile in the first place. Andromeda isn't out yet and iOS offers nothing similar so for people who aren't as fortunate as us, Continuum makes sense, no matter how limited you may think it is. Maybe I'm shifting more left of center as I reach AARP eligibility, but not everybody in the world can have what we have. A slice of Grimaldi's beats a large Domino's.
 

techiez

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(A) There's very little you can't do on a browser.
(B) You don't need a separate monitor, an HD TV will suffice.

Given the state of Windows apps for mobile, a browser accomplishes much more. If your needs require more, you shouldn't be on Windows 10 Mobile in the first place. Andromeda isn't out yet and iOS offers nothing similar so for people who aren't as fortunate as us, Continuum makes sense, no matter how limited you may think it is. Maybe I'm shifting more left of center as I reach AARP eligibility, but not everybody in the world can have what we have. A slice of Grimaldi's beats a large Domino's.

Well those who can afford HDTV can afford a computing device right? My problem with continuum supporters is that ppl mention that this is useful for ppl who cant afford a computing device(Nadella actually pitched continuum this way, but then we talk to connecting it to HDTV etc. contradictions isnt it?

There's little you cant do on a browser.Yet apps are more popular and demanded despite browser presence. We need skype etc on continuum.

edit: Adding that I'm on windows 10 mobile because it satisfies my needs, I have the apps I use, but continuum doesnt give me anything additional.

Also if we are talking affordability, I would pick a compute stick over a continuum based phone.
 

fatclue_98

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Well those who can afford HDTV can afford a computing device right?
That has to qualify as the most arrogant statement ever. Most, if not all, TVs being offered for sale are HD because that's what sells. I suppose you could go on Craigslist and find a 20" Magnavox with MagnaVision for sale. The seller may even throw in an Atari 2600 to play Pong on it.
 

techiez

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That has to qualify as the most arrogant statement ever. Most, if not all, TVs being offered for sale are HD because that's what sells. I suppose you could go on Craigslist and find a 20" Magnavox with MagnaVision for sale. The seller may even throw in an Atari 2600 to play Pong on it.

Well I'm from asia and this statement stands true here.

We disagree on usefulness of continuum in its present state, and I would like to see argument of how continuum is more useful than a compute stick.
 

vEEP pEEP

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I don't think WP is a big drain on their budget, but like the Zune, they are just not going to get in there. And it is quite disappointing because they are not noobs. Nokia was a horrible example - dominated and area and totally lost it. Even before MS. Nokia could not come back. But such solid phones.

But the phone is going to evolve. In fact calling it a phone is wrong, it's an extension of the cloud. Consumers are fickle and they want what everyone else wants, but to remain unique and special. We want new and cutting edge. Business wants what works and is stable.

I think it is easier to MS to work with businesses than consumers in a dominated market. Xbox will be fine btw.

With Blackberry gone, MS is ripe to get into that market - the business phone...or should I say, the Business Extension. O365 and decent mobile - you can get a lot done. Now they just need to get that trust factor which is making good hardware, software, customer support and longevity - that they are going to be around.

Do I hope for consumer WP - absolutely!!!!

Mr. V
 

a5cent

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Re: So... does this "paradigm shift" mean Microsoft is abandoning us?

Wrong as usual, but makes no difference...Dona is the "program chief" and MS focuses the real talent on the profit centers, like its Board directs it to do.
Seriously, no. I've never met anyone from MS who's business card just read "program chief". I'd be surprised if such a title even exists. It seems you are misrepresenting her actual title to imply that she is somehow responsible for a program or software. She is not.

Her actual title is "WINDOWS INSIDER program chief". That means she's the lead for a consumer outreach and beta test effort. Nothing more.

Furthermore, according to you, the real talent at MS works on W10 and Xbox, which puts Dona in the group of less competent employees. However, her responsibilities span all versions of Windows, as the insider program isn't exclusive to W10M, so your point doesn't even make sense on that level.

Anyway, you're still spreading FUD, please stop.
 

mikepalma

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Yeah, I guess she lied about her title on her twitter account...

I won't be addressing your poorly researched commentary further. Have a nice day.
 

a5cent

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Re: So... does this "paradigm shift" mean Microsoft is abandoning us?

Yeah, I guess she lied about her title on her twitter account...

Nope. This is her twitter profile:

donasarkar.png

"#WindowsInsiders program chief". Not just "program chief". Again, that means she's the lead for a public outreach and beta test program.

Her impact on anything directly related to the OS is limited to the feedback she relays from insiders to MS product managers, but she has little to no influence over what the program managers do with that feedback.

Anyway, you are right. This won't go anywhere, as you're more interested in saving face than learning. I'll also leave it at that.
 
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Jakoh

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No its not that insidious. MS is a major business w responsibilities to its shareholders. Windows phone (w10m) is a pitiful .5% player. So, MS wisely isn't wasting talent there. The B team of Gabe, Dona, and others are.assigned to w10m - they are not mean spirited, just less competent. The real talent is in Surface, xBox and the other profit centers so MS can make $ for its shareholders.

Thats just mean.
 

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