05-03-2017 05:09 AM
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  1. Ray Picone's Avatar
    I still use my Lumia 640 and find it has the apps I need on a daily basis. I would hate to see it seize to exist. I dread having to use Android or Apple iOS as my only alternatives. I can get to what I want so easy on my Windows phone.
    04-18-2017 04:15 PM
  2. Drael646464's Avatar
    I don't agree with w10m being a poor looks OS
    From the 3 (iOS, Android and w10m) I prefer w10m by far.

    Additionally I prefer live tiles much more than widgets that just look like fancy cartoons in the screen.
    Live tiles look very good.......notifications in them are the real problem that is not solved after all this time. This amazes me (on the bad side) because they worked very well in 8.1

    The problem with w10m is pretty much debated here....from lack of apps, to everlasting and not solved bugs, to faulty updates.......and these are MAJOR issues that led to a wonderful global market share of.....well...see for yourselves:

    http://www.androidpolice.com/wp-cont...er-q4-2016.png

    Damn math.......always being annoyingly true........

    The looks is definitely not the problem.....I wish it was.....

    No need for Donna to tweet anything......nobody really cares what she says.......the numbers speak for themselves. She doesn't have to say a single beep!
    They show the job MS has been doing for the last couple of years in w10m.
    They keep saying they are working on greater things and that there is a light in the end of the tunnel.....
    Well.....newsflash people: that light is a train coming!
    Hmm, whats the logic in that though? There were LESS apps in 2015 than 2016 (A lot less than there is now), when WM had 1.1% marketshare, and android and ios didn't have substantially more useability or apps in 2016, they are both pretty much same as ever.

    I don't think you could positively correlate either of those things you claimed, apps, or bugs, with the decline in marketshare. If either of those things were really true, W10M would never have had any marketshare in the first place, no?

    It pretty much correlates a lot better with Microsoft CEO Nadella saying "mobile is not a priority", and the dropping of nokia doesn't it?

    I remember a time when W8M first came out when it was kind of cool and different. Nokia made great quality phones. It had a certain business appeal. At the time, it had bugger all apps, but it still had much greater marketshare.
    04-18-2017 08:44 PM
  3. BrunoMG's Avatar
    Are you kidding me?

    I agree on the leaving part due to Nokia phones being terminated.
    But the rest? Nope.

    First people left w 8.1 because of the end ok Nokia (I agree with you)

    Nowadays, people left w10m because the major apps do not exist in w10m

    Snapchat
    Pokemon go
    Facebook (there is FB in wp......but its crap and it hasn't seen an update since 1986)
    Pinterest
    Tinder
    LinkedIn (exists but like FB, it doesn't have an update in years
    Example: In my country, most bank apps do not even exist in w10m....!
    In my country, the majority of TV apps that people like (tv shows p. ex. that have their own apps) are only for Android and Apple.
    I can play lottery or check my highway tolls or provide my electricity counter to the power company in my country using an android or apple app.....with w10m I can't do any of this.
    This impacts people's daily life. They can't do regular daily stuff with a w10m.

    Just to name a few.

    This is why people drifted away! Android and Apple phones make their lives easier!

    Do you think the average user left w10m because he saw Nadella on TV saying "mobile is not a priority"??
    Come on......the average user (real people....not geeks like us) sees football, news and soaps on TV.....not Nadella presentations and conferences!
    They don't even have a clue on who the hell Nadella or Donna are!!
    Last edited by BrunoMG; 04-19-2017 at 04:24 AM.
    dgr_874 and aximtreo like this.
    04-19-2017 04:10 AM
  4. neo158's Avatar
    I am one with WP; WP is with me; I am one with WP; WP is with me;...
    Nice Rogue One reference there 😉
    libra89 and sinime like this.
    04-19-2017 04:24 AM
  5. Drael646464's Avatar
    Are you kidding me?

    I agree on the leaving part due to Nokia phones being terminated.
    But the rest? Nope.

    First people left w 8.1 because of the end ok Nokia (I agree with you)

    Nowadays, people left w10m because the major apps do not exist in w10m

    Snapchat
    Pokemon go
    Facebook (there is FB in wp......but its crap and it hasn't seen an update since 1986)
    Pinterest
    Tinder
    LinkedIn (exists but like FB, it doesn't have an update in years
    Example: In my country, most bank apps do not even exist in w10m....!
    In my country, the majority of TV apps that people like (tv shows p. ex. that have their own apps) are only for Android and Apple.
    I can play lottery or check my highway tolls or provide my electricity counter to the power company in my country using an android or apple app.....with w10m I can't do any of this.
    This impacts people's daily life. They can't do regular daily stuff with a w10m.

    Just to name a few.

    This is why people drifted away! Android and Apple phones make their lives easier!

    Do you think the average user left w10m because he saw Nadella on TV saying "mobile is not a priority"??
    Come on......the average user (real people....not geeks like us) sees football, news and soaps on TV.....not Nadella presentations and conferences!
    They don't even have a clue on who the hell Nadella or Donna are!!
    The current facebook app is a direct port of the ios facebook app, and its very recent.

    I'm sure there's a revised version of the claim that might make logical sense, but number of apps = percentage of marketshare just doesn't match the marketshare of win10mobile over time.

    " They can't do regular daily stuff with a w10m." - That's a bit OTT. You know people can and do survive without smartphones, and most of everything can be done by a browser right? Including banking and paying tolls. You make it sound like people can't eat or breathe without apps! What really happens without apps is things take a second or two longer, for the most part. Indeed what happens without tinder, is you actually have a good time and find love, haha! Roughly 3/4 of the global population has no form of computer.

    Interesting side note- heavy internet use has been associated with suicide risk, in several major studies. Take note FB junkies, it ain't making you happier.

    I'm not saying that windows 10 mobile isn't missing apps some people might want or find convenient. Certainly banking apps do add a slight bit of extra convenience to ones life, over loading a browser page.

    All I am saying is that there are more UWP apps right now, that there have ever been historically, and less marketshare that there has ever been historically, so a simple 1 to 1 correlation there makes no logical sense.

    And yes, I think MS's intentional lack of support put off some users, the fall of nokia too as a windows provider, and especially business confidence such as carriers, who sell the things. Business confidence is extremely trust orientated, it functions similar to stock rise and fall. Carrier support or not, is life or death to phones.

    I also think tech has become very fashion oriented. That its become like, IDK, shoes or jewelry. Microsoft tablets are "cool" but their phones aren't. I just don't think it can really be put down to apps, or even the widely touted "user experience". Most people have never ever used a windows 10 mobile, myself included. I used UWP all the time, but I've never even touched a windows 10 mobile device. Most people never used a blackberry. Many android users never really gave ios a go, and vice versa. I'm sure there is no study anywhere showing people using smartphones are happier with their lives. How you use a tool, defines its actual outcomes, not the tool itself.

    People have grown a little entrenched in their worlds too. Not that they need apps per se, but they grow used to their ecosystems, their UIs, doing things a certain way. The slight conveniences and comforts. Like people fall out of the habit, of say, walking places because of cars and get fat, things like FB and tinder, don't really have psychological rave reviews, but people use them because they "are easy".

    For me, windows on small mobile devices other than slates -I'm not planning on going near that till windows on arm, and bot Cortana integration. Till MS's strategies ferment a bit. Should be in about a year when windows on mobile devices (outside of tablets, for which it is excellent), becomes interesting to me. Then I think there may be some exciting and useful paradigm breaking propositions.

    I personally think these days, windows 10 mobile is probably more suited to a smartwatch OS. As a carrier for future superapps like Cortana. Its lightweight, low resources, and not real windows 10. Perfect for little smart devices. And if it came in that form, with the new Cortana platform - that'd interest me, save me carrying around a glass slab and twiddling with a touch screen all day.

    In a phone, yeah, I wouldn't touch it. But I'm not super interested in any other phones either. Looking forward to something more natural, less like a a glass brick I have to cart around.

    "apps = marketshare"?

    If that was true, amazon tablets wouldn't be killing it, in the budget tablet sector.

    If that was true ChromeOS wouldn't be popular in schools

    Apple would be a bigger seller, by volume than they are, given they are extremely close to android in app volume, and have better software quality overall.

    Windows 10M and bb10 never would have had any appreciable marketshare.

    There are "missing apps", on the platform. Yes. Functionally I would say banking is a major one. Pokémon go or niche messaging programs.....not so much :P

    Windows store is looking great to me, as a tablet and desktop user, compared to its paultry offerings two years ago. It's a great deal better, and empirically the app count is a lot higher.

    There's all those complex human variables that business analysts and marketers look to, habits, cultural influences, marketing exposure, spending, what their peers do, and so on. Which in a way, goes back _partly_ to "is it cool".

    If we are all 100% honest, if all smartphones were wiped from the face of reality tomorrow, we'd probably be as much better off, as we are disadvantaged.

    There have been studies showing people under 25 would rather _electrocute themselves_ than spend half an hour bored, with nothing to do. You can be smarter with tech than that, but tech can also be a crutch, something that weakens a person, as with obesity, fast food, and the automobile.
    Last edited by Drael646464; 04-19-2017 at 06:31 AM.
    04-19-2017 05:39 AM
  6. dgr_874's Avatar
    Drael646464 you have to remember that you are looking at this from a developers standpoint, not a regular user. It's awesome that you believe in this platform so much and think it will grow how you want. You talk about Oracle (never use it), adobe (never use it) Fruity Loops (isnt this what my kids eat in the morning? Never heard of it) and other stuff that has no impact on my daily life. Most regular users (like myself, 40 yo male, with family) just don't see the benefits anymore of W10M.

    I have been carrying two phones, my 1520 and a Nexus 6 for the past 6 months daily to see for myself how the other side shakes out. It's been interesting for sure.

    I still love the interface on W10m more than anything. I love having access to a simple file system on my phone. The tiles are great and actually seem to update with the CU on it.

    But my nexus has abilities i never even knew phones could do. (in before Google hate), Google photos is fantastic, light years ahead of any album making that OneDrive does. Chromecast has allowed me to hook my whole home up for streaming both audio and video (absolutely fantastic), while I can't even get my 1520 to connect to my Xbox. Google assistant actually seems to recognize my voice about 50% better than Cortana. I could go on and on.

    I think it's great that you are so pumped up for where Microsoft is going with the platform. We need believers like you to develop for the rest of us. But insulting people for wanting to use snapchat or whatever other app they need in their life isn't the way to do it. It just further reinforces many people beliefs that windows is just for business and the other two are for consumers.

    Maybe things will work out like you say, maybe not. Hopefully there will be some users left by the time Microsoft gets around to releasing an actual product.
    04-19-2017 06:26 AM
  7. Drael646464's Avatar
    Drael646464 you have to remember that you are looking at this from a developers standpoint, not a regular user. It's awesome that you believe in this platform so much and think it will grow how you want. You talk about Oracle (never use it), adobe (never use it) Fruity Loops (isnt this what my kids eat in the morning? Never heard of it) and other stuff that has no impact on my daily life. Most regular users (like myself, 40 yo male, with family) just don't see the benefits anymore of W10M.

    I have been carrying two phones, my 1520 and a Nexus 6 for the past 6 months daily to see for myself how the other side shakes out. It's been interesting for sure.

    I still love the interface on W10m more than anything. I love having access to a simple file system on my phone. The tiles are great and actually seem to update with the CU on it.

    But my nexus has abilities i never even knew phones could do. (in before Google hate), Google photos is fantastic, light years ahead of any album making that OneDrive does. Chromecast has allowed me to hook my whole home up for streaming both audio and video (absolutely fantastic), while I can't even get my 1520 to connect to my Xbox. Google assistant actually seems to recognize my voice about 50% better than Cortana. I could go on and on.

    I think it's great that you are so pumped up for where Microsoft is going with the platform. We need believers like you to develop for the rest of us. But insulting people for wanting to use snapchat or whatever other app they need in their life isn't the way to do it. It just further reinforces many people beliefs that windows is just for business and the other two are for consumers.

    Maybe things will work out like you say, maybe not. Hopefully there will be some users left by the time Microsoft gets around to releasing an actual product.
    I've never been one much into cloud storage. I mean, I use it, but I'd rather store things locally, or share them over wifi locally. Its much faster, so for me more convenient. I like local syncing though, and it works pretty good for photos. Google photos on the other hand I found weird - for example, sharing a photo to google+ - actually pretty complicated.

    Anyway, perhaps I am unusual there.

    I am also loathe to stream. Even Bluetooth bothers me at times with its stops and starts. I'd rather the quality than the convenience, and use wires, and local files (although not all the time). That probably also makes me unusual. I still have Bluetooth audio, but it continually bugs me.

    I've even gotten into HD flac, rather than mp3, after I rediscovered records. I am loathe to do things like Spotify, unless that's all I have available. I am looking forward to the day when storage space means zero compression on video. I'm more interested in zero artifacts than 4k. I'd even buy movies on a disc just to get that.

    I'm more of a typical "power user" and "audiophile". I play desktop games. I write music on my PC. I do things on my windows tablet than android tablets can't do.

    So yeah, I am probably not your typical human being, let alone consumer.

    But I've been using a lot of android devices for years. My bb10 device, is crammed full of android apps, and I went and added chrome store apps for google apps on my windows tablet, like google maps, youtube. I'm not at all opposed to the view that people want to do certain things, and for this little moment in time, ios and android have the upper hand their on the little mobile screens.

    In fact, that wasn't really anything to do with that large reply. Which was more about "there is more to it than just app count", if I were to make it normal person length :P (Ignoring my philosophical side rumblings about "Is it _really_ making our lives better" :P XD)
    04-19-2017 06:45 AM
  8. BrunoMG's Avatar
    I'm sorry but around me, the few people I knew with w10m say they left because there are no apps that they need, ESPECIALLY banking and public entities or even transports....things that a common mortal person does/uses everyday like pay a bill, check the bank account, recharge the monthly transport pass, see the tax ststus on a payment or even check the number of fidelity points they have in a Repsol/BP card....things that are harder to do on a wp (browser) or even impossible to do without an app!
    04-19-2017 06:54 AM
  9. Drael646464's Avatar
    I don't believe I insulted people for using snapchat?

    I just pointed out it wasn't functionally that essential. One could easily use something more commonplace, like FB messenger. I find it personally odd when people try to insist on a messaging or social platform.

    Instagram and FB are by far the most popular platforms, so it makes sense just to use those, if someone else doesn't have it IMO. Rather than expect everyone else shift to a less popular platform.

    I use google+, I prefer it to FB, but I don't insist my friends all move over, and I keep a FB account to keep up with them. You know, when in rome.
    neo158 likes this.
    04-19-2017 06:54 AM
  10. Drael646464's Avatar
    I'm sorry but around me, the few people I knew with w10m say they left because there are no apps that they need, ESPECIALLY banking and public entities or even transports....things that a common mortal person uses everyday!
    Well, win10 M never had those things. So why did they buy one in the first place if that's what they wanted?
    04-19-2017 06:55 AM
  11. Drael646464's Avatar
    Sidenote, I wonder how easy it is to set up snapchat as a chrome app...Not that i'd ever use it, but that's often a rallying call of sorts round these forums.
    04-19-2017 07:00 AM
  12. harishairi's Avatar
    The most disadvantages that W10M has from the start is that no app from Google. No Google chrome for W10M. No Google Now. At least if Microsoft lacks the resource to develop their own services, they should allow or collaborate with Google so that W10M will be able to stay relevant with Android and IOS users. People will start to consider and buying for this reason. If only Microsoft realize this earlier. Just my opinion.
    04-19-2017 07:02 AM
  13. BrunoMG's Avatar
    Well, win10 M never had those things. So why did they buy one in the first place if that's what they wanted?
    That's not the point! They didn't buy Lumia's thinking about what they wanted! Most users are ordinary people!
    They bought Lumias because of the price and because they thought it would be roughly the same as android in possibilities.....i.e. w10m would have "those things".
    They were wrong! When they realized that the possibilities of Android / iOS, were (very) reduced possibilities os w10m, they left!

    I don't think this is hard to understand!
    I know many, many cases like these!
    Is the app gap the only issue against w10m? No.
    Is the app gap one of the HUGE obstacles in adopting a w10m? YES. No Doubt!

    Did you never bought anything that you regretted later?
    04-19-2017 07:27 AM
  14. Drael646464's Avatar
    That's not the point!
    They bought Lumias because of the price and because they thought it would be roughly the same as android in possibilities...i.e. w10m would have "those things". (I don't mention iOS because IPhones are expensive)
    They were wrong! When they realized the possibilities of Android / iOS, and the (reduced) possibilities os w10m, they left!

    I don't think this is hard to understand!

    Did you never bought anything that you regretted later?
    Sure, I have. Not often really though, I tend to do a lot of research on any big purchases, and then just don't worry about the small ones.

    Perhaps it wasn't your point but it was mine. Windows 10 mobile never had those things, it was never advertised to have those things, no one ever told anyone it had those things (like snapchat).

    The situation of UWP apps has improved vastly since the release of windows 10. The number of windows 10 mobile users has deceased. Now, perhaps the average consumer just doesn't really understand technology well, and that's fair enough for them and perhaps also you are right that apps are kind of a big deal on little screen - but again its not like apps have decreased alongside marketshare. There is no 1 to 1 correlation there in the drop in marketshare. That was my _only_ original point, that there is more to shifts in marketplace than sheer functionality, for all the marketers would have you believe otherwise.

    If that was all their was, amazon tablets would be a bust, chromebook would be too, and apple would rule the marketplace and very few windows phones or blackberry phones would ever have been brought. If number of "big" apps were everything, the whole marketplace, and the history of the tech marketplace would be different. Windows store is bigger than amazon's app store. Both are a lot bigger than the chrome store.

    People probably invested on those products, like BB and windows 10 mobile, partly because there were things they didn't like about the mainstream offerings. They probably purchased them, as "alternatives". They might have purchased BB for its security, or Microsoft for its office intergration. Maybe they preferred the interface. Maybe they liked the hub, or tiles. Maybe they didn't like apples closed system or were bugged by googles privacy and freemium models.

    And if they changed their minds later, sure they changed their minds, but that alone shows there is more to marketplace share, or mindshare, than apps. There's a lot that goes on with the strangely sheepish human being. A lot of the time people act, and they have no idea why they do things themselves. It's quite the area in psychology.

    Which again, is my only point. Not that small screen touch apps aren't fairy important to people in the very present market, for their conveniences , when you include cultural trends/zeitgeist and personal habits especially.

    Not that android does not have more. Just that there is more to marketshare than apps alone.

    Hope that's clearer :)

    If not, I surrender! lol

    Although side philosophical point.

    Where is society leading, if it becomes so important than one spends a few less seconds using a computer to do quite miraculous things, that it earns the label "important"? What would have made you literally treated as a god 100 years ago, nothing more than an irritation that one wants out of the way?

    What happens to our children's children in a society that puts convenience over personal ability, skill, knowledge persistence and strength? Where only the tiniest number of people know how things work, and the rest just need them to work, perfectly, yesterday, or they get upset.

    I guess that journey started long ago, when we stepped off the savannah, but I can't help but think of something like the movie wall-e. Or something worse, like brave new world or the TV show caprica.
    04-19-2017 07:49 AM
  15. mattiasnyc's Avatar
    Has anyone done the math on how a static actual MS userbase (i.e. absolute numbers) would shrink in market share with the recent increase in smartphone use? Because there's a difference between people leaving W10 Mobile and more people using smartphones but fewer choosing W10M when buying a new phone.
    04-19-2017 08:24 AM
  16. Drael646464's Avatar
    Has anyone done the math on how a static actual MS userbase (i.e. absolute numbers) would shrink in market share with the recent increase in smartphone use? Because there's a difference between people leaving W10 Mobile and more people using smartphones but fewer choosing W10M when buying a new phone.
    Interesting point. Year on year growth of smartphones has been ridiculous. Even with the market winding down to 6% last year, we are still in adoption (or at least, were last quarter).

    I wonder if, in fact the total windows 10 mobile users hasn't changed that much? If so, it would not be so much that windows 10 mobile has shrunk, more that android has grown.
    04-19-2017 08:32 AM
  17. camaroz1985's Avatar
    That's a very good point. Unfortunately, I still think W10M use is shrinking in absolute numbers, not just relative.
    04-19-2017 12:13 PM
  18. etphoto's Avatar
    There is no doubt W10M numbers are shrinking. Just think of the hundreds every week looking for a new phone and forced to look elsewhere because no WM phones are being offered to the average consumer.

    Twitter: @PhotographyET
    libra89 likes this.
    04-19-2017 12:41 PM
  19. sporosarcina's Avatar
    Direct Result of News: I won't upgrade my 950 with an Elite X3.
    Reasoning: Not because I think the platform is dead, but rather because I expect that the next "generation" of "mobile" W10 will be W10ARM and the X3 will not get the entire feature set of W10ARM because it will require at least an Snapdragon 835. I think the X3 will get most of the features (minus win32 emulation) and serve as the "testbed" for W10ARM, but the full W10ARM will be seen on either "the next category" (Surface Phone) or the ARM powered Surface 4.
    Result: I'll keep my 950 till the W10ARM idea shakes out, it serves me well and does everything I need professionally. I think the X3 and a few other phones will get a W10 Cloud-esque update with W10ARM (just UWP).
    04-19-2017 03:11 PM
  20. BrunoMG's Avatar
    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/0...insignificant/

    Brilliant....

    Like Pink Floyd's song.....................All in all it's just another brick in the wall.....
    04-19-2017 04:37 PM
  21. TgeekB's Avatar
    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/0...insignificant/

    Brilliant....

    Like Pink Floyd's song.....................All in all it's just another brick in the wall.....
    Makes sense to get it out to the most people first. I know people take this personally but I don't.

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    04-19-2017 05:31 PM
  22. mattiasnyc's Avatar
    Well, you guys can think whatever you want, but whatever is true is true. I have no idea if and how many users are leaving W10M. It doesn't sound as if you guys know either, you're just on the negative-train it seems.

    The way I see it is that if the market share is small but users aren't leaving in significant amounts then that tells us something about the actual user experience. And that's really the point I was trying to get at.

    There is no doubt W10M numbers are shrinking. Just think of the hundreds every week looking for a new phone and forced to look elsewhere because no WM phones are being offered to the average consumer.

    Twitter: @PhotographyET
    That's a very good point. Unfortunately, I still think W10M use is shrinking in absolute numbers, not just relative.
    Drael646464 likes this.
    04-19-2017 10:59 PM
  23. mattiasnyc's Avatar
    Makes sense to get it out to the most people first. I know people take this personally but I don't.

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    Now, if we wanted to spend our energy not on being negative-nancies online, we could make a concerted effort to contact people in charge of things to try to get them to develop for W10M first, for example. I'm not entirely sure it'll have an effect, but certainly just typing about it herewon't.
    04-19-2017 11:02 PM
  24. Drael646464's Avatar
    There is no doubt W10M numbers are shrinking. Just think of the hundreds every week looking for a new phone and forced to look elsewhere because no WM phones are being offered to the average consumer.

    Twitter: @PhotographyET
    https://www.onmsft.com/news/windows-...rs-latest-data

    Actually it increased in market share in US and UK recently. 1.7% and 2.1% respectively, whilst holding 2.7% in the EU5. 5.8% market share in Australia. 4.3% in Italy.

    Considering the number of smartphone users in those populations, those are hardly insignificant numbers. Looking at these numbers, I can't help but feel many of the doom and gloomers are wildly overstating the situation.

    Whats also interesting is that growth in marketshare isn't year on year growth. Which if I am reading this correctly means we have just had a quarter of negative growth. The first in the history of the smartphone market, and the figurative "writing on the wall" for the premium smartphone market. In other words, the turning of the tide of adoption and market saturation.

    Although oddly I've seen not articles to that effect yet. If we've hit negative growth, this is the biggest news the tech sector has had in a long time. This will be a veeery interesting year as will next if we have already reached saturation. Basically if that's happened we'll see Apple and Samsung wildly flail to prevent inevitable and ongoing shrinkage (budget models, form variations, new products), massive growth in budget markets and a desperate fight for dominance in "the next big thing". Brands like Xiaomi, Huawai, Oppo. I could also see apple and Samsung push for Asian markets where such brands are still considered symbols of status.

    Be extremely good timing for full voice platforms, or new form factors also if that's the case, and smartphones are already shrinking - It could be super fortituous for Microsofts plan, a sort of perfect timing.
    Last edited by Drael646464; 04-20-2017 at 12:43 AM.
    mattiasnyc likes this.
    04-20-2017 12:28 AM
  25. Drael646464's Avatar
    Well I had a look at the q1 and q4 numbers. And from what I can tell, there have been negative growth trends in the mature markets like US and UK.

    Android shrinking compared to apple in the US. Windows growing in the UK and US marketshare.

    For sure mature markets are reaching saturation. Which means premium phone makers will now be changing gears - focusing on emerging markets, budget products, and new tech inventions.

    2017-2018 will be the most interesting years we've had in tech for a long time. Status quo, is falling.
    Last edited by Drael646464; 04-20-2017 at 01:43 AM.
    04-20-2017 12:46 AM
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