One heck of a week for W10 Mobile. What's everyone feeling?

[Cosmin Petrenciuc]

I can for example ask a news skype bot "whats the latest news in such and such place", and while no assistant can answer that without merely differing me to search, the bot can. Bot software can serve in the place of apps. When there's a bot for uber, traffic warnings, news, weather, mail and so on, a whole ecosystem of them, as there is for touch, you can just use a watch, no need for a bulky phone. Or a credit card sized device. The device can just show info cards, and your earpiece can do the rest.

No more staring at a screen all day, pinching and twiddling. Just "hey Cortana, have I got any mail?"

That would work very nicely for all the world regions where English is the main language being used. I'm Romanian. It would be amazing if Microsoft just made Cortana read, write and speak Romanian, but I'm afraid that's not going to happen in the next 5 years. So, for me, the probable answer I might get from Cortana to the question if I have any new e-mails would be something like "Yes, you have N new e-mails. Find yourself a computer to read them because I can't do that."

Yes, this natural language integration is a big and great paradigm shift, but by approaching the Mobile market from this perspective Microsoft won't see a big return of investment any time soon because this approach would be probably limited, as I said, to regions where English is the official language.

 

[Cosmin Petrenciuc]

Dona said that???????
Smartphones won't live much longer??

Those weren't her exact words but as I said she HINTED those ideas. Listen the podcast from 25:50 to 28:00 and pay attention to 25:25 and 27:00.

 

[nasznjoka]

You get this, heck, we all get this. Somehow though, MS doesn't seem to.

The Galaxy S8 MS Edition was a really low blow. Not because the hardware is bad. Heck, I would argue that the only real shortcoming that phone has right now is Android itself, but that's a different matter. Still, MS could have at least told us something, anything, before going nuclear on user confidence again.

Android is 8 years ahead of windows... The 10 windows phone fans think IT'S BEAUTIFUL and others are ugly reminds me of a poor man with no shoes and rejected one because he's used to walking shoe less.. I personally think one of the major drawbacks of wp is actually it's UI.. It's so ugly big fonts darkness everywhere the reason the general public rejected that sh"**t.. Generally android has widgets that people can setup to get info at glance but people don't use them alot and this should tell you that the home screen is just a gateway not the whole experience plus we have notifications for that purpose... You guys here live in the world of your imagination but just to let you know that android is beautiful just check most modern websites they use material design

 

[Drael646464]

That would work very nicely for all the world regions where English is the main language being used. I'm Romanian. It would be amazing if Microsoft just made Cortana read, write and speak Romanian, but I'm afraid that's not going to happen in the next 5 years. So, for me, the probable answer I might get from Cortana to the question if I have any new e-mails would be something like "Yes, you have N new e-mails. Find yourself a computer to read them because I can't do that."

Yes, this natural language integration is a big and great paradigm shift, but by approaching the Mobile market from this perspective Microsoft won't see a big return of investment any time soon because this approach would be probably limited, as I said, to regions where English is the official language.

1.5 billion people isn't a bad market. I'm sure that's enough for return on investment. And I am sure when it takes off, other languages will be added.

However because they will most likely be added in order of popularity, things like Spanish, Russian and Mandarin will get added first.

Which does create a strange scenario, where services get to some places and not others.

 

[Drael646464]

Android is 8 years ahead of windows... The 10 windows phone fans think IT'S BEAUTIFUL and others are ugly reminds me of a poor man with no shoes and rejected one because he's used to walking shoe less.. I personally think one of the major drawbacks of wp is actually it's UI.. It's so ugly big fonts darkness everywhere the reason the general public rejected that sh"**t.. Generally android has widgets that people can setup to get info at glance but people don't use them alot and this should tell you that the home screen is just a gateway not the whole experience plus we have notifications for that purpose... You guys here live in the world of your imagination but just to let you know that android is beautiful just check most modern websites they use material design

Wow. Tell us what you really feel hahaha!

People brought android back when it was a battery saving black (Which personally I preferred), instead of googles current incarnation of white + patronising childlike doodles and cartoons.

If windows bothers you so much, why not go to an android forum, like say, android central? Plenty of people here use android devices, and people don't generally go full hate mode on it, so its a weird fight your trying to pick.

Samsung and Microsoft are friends from way back. They co-developed the amazing graphene oled screen. Google and Microsoft even work together, they hashed out network streaming compatibility.

I don't get the angst.

 

[nasznjoka]

Apps are excuses.. The real deal is an ugly OS with very dull look

 

[Drael646464]

Apps are excuses.. The real deal is an ugly OS with very dull look

-"Chinese people are astronauts. The true chicken is pineapple flavoured potato".

Maybe its your virtual keyboard autocorrect, but the above sentence made roughly as much sense as your last one did IMO.

Perhaps you could try that again?

Or ..

you could just go back to the land of your favourite UI design, over at android central, and yarn endlessly about how great it all is.

You know, rather than look like someone looking to badly express supressed emotional issues like general life dissatisfaction by arguing about something as subjective and ultimately trivial as OS UI preference with strangers on the internet, via a forum about a topic you seem to have no interest in.

Take your pick really, but trust me, its you that gets the bad end of the stick if you pick the wrong one.

 

[mattiasnyc]

That would work very nicely for all the world regions where English is the main language being used. I'm Romanian. It would be amazing if Microsoft just made Cortana read, write and speak Romanian, but I'm afraid that's not going to happen in the next 5 years.

5 years is a long time and machines can learn more and more by themselves. I'm pretty sure far more languages will be available within the next two or three years.

 

[mattiasnyc]

Apps are excuses.. The real deal is an ugly OS with very dull look

Look up "subjective" in a dictionary.

 

[BrunoMG]

I don't agree with w10m being a poor looks OS
From the 3 (iOS, Android and w10m) I prefer w10m by far.

Additionally I prefer live tiles much more than widgets that just look like fancy cartoons in the screen.
Live tiles look very good.......notifications in them are the real problem that is not solved after all this time. This amazes me (on the bad side) because they worked very well in 8.1

The problem with w10m is pretty much debated here....from lack of apps, to everlasting and not solved bugs, to faulty updates.......and these are MAJOR issues that led to a wonderful global market share of.....well...see for yourselves:

Damn math.......always being annoyingly true........

The looks is definitely not the problem.....I wish it was.....

No need for Donna to tweet anything......nobody really cares what she says.......the numbers speak for themselves. She doesn't have to say a single beep!
They show the job MS has been doing for the last couple of years in w10m.
They keep saying they are working on greater things and that there is a light in the end of the tunnel.....
Well.....newsflash people: that light is a train coming!

 

[Ray Picone]

I still use my Lumia 640 and find it has the apps I need on a daily basis. I would hate to see it seize to exist. I dread having to use Android or Apple iOS as my only alternatives. I can get to what I want so easy on my Windows phone.

 

[Drael646464]

I don't agree with w10m being a poor looks OS
From the 3 (iOS, Android and w10m) I prefer w10m by far.

Additionally I prefer live tiles much more than widgets that just look like fancy cartoons in the screen.
Live tiles look very good.......notifications in them are the real problem that is not solved after all this time. This amazes me (on the bad side) because they worked very well in 8.1

The problem with w10m is pretty much debated here....from lack of apps, to everlasting and not solved bugs, to faulty updates.......and these are MAJOR issues that led to a wonderful global market share of.....well...see for yourselves:

http://www.androidpolice.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/nexus2cee_gartner-q4-2016.png

Damn math.......always being annoyingly true........

The looks is definitely not the problem.....I wish it was.....

No need for Donna to tweet anything......nobody really cares what she says.......the numbers speak for themselves. She doesn't have to say a single beep!
They show the job MS has been doing for the last couple of years in w10m.
They keep saying they are working on greater things and that there is a light in the end of the tunnel.....
Well.....newsflash people: that light is a train coming!

Hmm, whats the logic in that though? There were LESS apps in 2015 than 2016 (A lot less than there is now), when WM had 1.1% marketshare, and android and ios didn't have substantially more useability or apps in 2016, they are both pretty much same as ever.

I don't think you could positively correlate either of those things you claimed, apps, or bugs, with the decline in marketshare. If either of those things were really true, W10M would never have had any marketshare in the first place, no?

It pretty much correlates a lot better with Microsoft CEO Nadella saying "mobile is not a priority", and the dropping of nokia doesn't it?

I remember a time when W8M first came out when it was kind of cool and different. Nokia made great quality phones. It had a certain business appeal. At the time, it had bugger all apps, but it still had much greater marketshare.

 

[BrunoMG]

Are you kidding me?

I agree on the leaving part due to Nokia phones being terminated.
But the rest? Nope.

First people left w 8.1 because of the end ok Nokia (I agree with you)

Nowadays, people left w10m because the major apps do not exist in w10m

Snapchat
Pokemon go
Facebook (there is FB in wp......but its crap and it hasn't seen an update since 1986)
Pinterest
Tinder
LinkedIn (exists but like FB, it doesn't have an update in years
Example: In my country, most bank apps do not even exist in w10m....!
In my country, the majority of TV apps that people like (tv shows p. ex. that have their own apps) are only for Android and Apple.
I can play lottery or check my highway tolls or provide my electricity counter to the power company in my country using an android or apple app.....with w10m I can't do any of this.
This impacts people's daily life. They can't do regular daily stuff with a w10m.

Just to name a few.

This is why people drifted away! Android and Apple phones make their lives easier!

Do you think the average user left w10m because he saw Nadella on TV saying "mobile is not a priority"??
Come on......the average user (real people....not geeks like us) sees football, news and soaps on TV.....not Nadella presentations and conferences!
They don't even have a clue on who the hell Nadella or Donna are!!

 

[neo158]

I am one with WP; WP is with me; I am one with WP; WP is with me;...

Nice Rogue One reference there

 

[Drael646464]

Are you kidding me?

I agree on the leaving part due to Nokia phones being terminated.
But the rest? Nope.

First people left w 8.1 because of the end ok Nokia (I agree with you)

Nowadays, people left w10m because the major apps do not exist in w10m

Snapchat
Pokemon go
Facebook (there is FB in wp......but its crap and it hasn't seen an update since 1986)
Pinterest
Tinder
LinkedIn (exists but like FB, it doesn't have an update in years
Example: In my country, most bank apps do not even exist in w10m....!
In my country, the majority of TV apps that people like (tv shows p. ex. that have their own apps) are only for Android and Apple.
I can play lottery or check my highway tolls or provide my electricity counter to the power company in my country using an android or apple app.....with w10m I can't do any of this.
This impacts people's daily life. They can't do regular daily stuff with a w10m.

Just to name a few.

This is why people drifted away! Android and Apple phones make their lives easier!

Do you think the average user left w10m because he saw Nadella on TV saying "mobile is not a priority"??
Come on......the average user (real people....not geeks like us) sees football, news and soaps on TV.....not Nadella presentations and conferences!
They don't even have a clue on who the hell Nadella or Donna are!!

The current facebook app is a direct port of the ios facebook app, and its very recent.

I'm sure there's a revised version of the claim that might make logical sense, but number of apps = percentage of marketshare just doesn't match the marketshare of win10mobile over time.

" They can't do regular daily stuff with a w10m." - That's a bit OTT. You know people can and do survive without smartphones, and most of everything can be done by a browser right? Including banking and paying tolls. You make it sound like people can't eat or breathe without apps! What really happens without apps is things take a second or two longer, for the most part. Indeed what happens without tinder, is you actually have a good time and find love, haha! Roughly 3/4 of the global population has no form of computer.

Interesting side note- heavy internet use has been associated with suicide risk, in several major studies. Take note FB junkies, it ain't making you happier.

I'm not saying that windows 10 mobile isn't missing apps some people might want or find convenient. Certainly banking apps do add a slight bit of extra convenience to ones life, over loading a browser page.

All I am saying is that there are more UWP apps right now, that there have ever been historically, and less marketshare that there has ever been historically, so a simple 1 to 1 correlation there makes no logical sense.

And yes, I think MS's intentional lack of support put off some users, the fall of nokia too as a windows provider, and especially business confidence such as carriers, who sell the things. Business confidence is extremely trust orientated, it functions similar to stock rise and fall. Carrier support or not, is life or death to phones.

I also think tech has become very fashion oriented. That its become like, IDK, shoes or jewelry. Microsoft tablets are "cool" but their phones aren't. I just don't think it can really be put down to apps, or even the widely touted "user experience". Most people have never ever used a windows 10 mobile, myself included. I used UWP all the time, but I've never even touched a windows 10 mobile device. Most people never used a blackberry. Many android users never really gave ios a go, and vice versa. I'm sure there is no study anywhere showing people using smartphones are happier with their lives. How you use a tool, defines its actual outcomes, not the tool itself.

People have grown a little entrenched in their worlds too. Not that they need apps per se, but they grow used to their ecosystems, their UIs, doing things a certain way. The slight conveniences and comforts. Like people fall out of the habit, of say, walking places because of cars and get fat, things like FB and tinder, don't really have psychological rave reviews, but people use them because they "are easy".

For me, windows on small mobile devices other than slates -I'm not planning on going near that till windows on arm, and bot Cortana integration. Till MS's strategies ferment a bit. Should be in about a year when windows on mobile devices (outside of tablets, for which it is excellent), becomes interesting to me. Then I think there may be some exciting and useful paradigm breaking propositions.

I personally think these days, windows 10 mobile is probably more suited to a smartwatch OS. As a carrier for future superapps like Cortana. Its lightweight, low resources, and not real windows 10. Perfect for little smart devices. And if it came in that form, with the new Cortana platform - that'd interest me, save me carrying around a glass slab and twiddling with a touch screen all day.

In a phone, yeah, I wouldn't touch it. But I'm not super interested in any other phones either. Looking forward to something more natural, less like a a glass brick I have to cart around.

"apps = marketshare"?

If that was true, amazon tablets wouldn't be killing it, in the budget tablet sector.

If that was true ChromeOS wouldn't be popular in schools

Apple would be a bigger seller, by volume than they are, given they are extremely close to android in app volume, and have better software quality overall.

Windows 10M and bb10 never would have had any appreciable marketshare.

There are "missing apps", on the platform. Yes. Functionally I would say banking is a major one. Pokémon go or niche messaging programs.....not so much

Windows store is looking great to me, as a tablet and desktop user, compared to its paultry offerings two years ago. It's a great deal better, and empirically the app count is a lot higher.

There's all those complex human variables that business analysts and marketers look to, habits, cultural influences, marketing exposure, spending, what their peers do, and so on. Which in a way, goes back _partly_ to "is it cool".

If we are all 100% honest, if all smartphones were wiped from the face of reality tomorrow, we'd probably be as much better off, as we are disadvantaged.

There have been studies showing people under 25 would rather _electrocute themselves_ than spend half an hour bored, with nothing to do. You can be smarter with tech than that, but tech can also be a crutch, something that weakens a person, as with obesity, fast food, and the automobile.

 

[dgr_874]

Drael646464 you have to remember that you are looking at this from a developers standpoint, not a regular user. It's awesome that you believe in this platform so much and think it will grow how you want. You talk about Oracle (never use it), adobe (never use it) Fruity Loops (isnt this what my kids eat in the morning? Never heard of it) and other stuff that has no impact on my daily life. Most regular users (like myself, 40 yo male, with family) just don't see the benefits anymore of W10M.

I have been carrying two phones, my 1520 and a Nexus 6 for the past 6 months daily to see for myself how the other side shakes out. It's been interesting for sure.

I still love the interface on W10m more than anything. I love having access to a simple file system on my phone. The tiles are great and actually seem to update with the CU on it.

But my nexus has abilities i never even knew phones could do. (in before Google hate), Google photos is fantastic, light years ahead of any album making that OneDrive does. Chromecast has allowed me to hook my whole home up for streaming both audio and video (absolutely fantastic), while I can't even get my 1520 to connect to my Xbox. Google assistant actually seems to recognize my voice about 50% better than Cortana. I could go on and on.

I think it's great that you are so pumped up for where Microsoft is going with the platform. We need believers like you to develop for the rest of us. But insulting people for wanting to use snapchat or whatever other app they need in their life isn't the way to do it. It just further reinforces many people beliefs that windows is just for business and the other two are for consumers.

Maybe things will work out like you say, maybe not. Hopefully there will be some users left by the time Microsoft gets around to releasing an actual product.

 

[Drael646464]

Drael646464 you have to remember that you are looking at this from a developers standpoint, not a regular user. It's awesome that you believe in this platform so much and think it will grow how you want. You talk about Oracle (never use it), adobe (never use it) Fruity Loops (isnt this what my kids eat in the morning? Never heard of it) and other stuff that has no impact on my daily life. Most regular users (like myself, 40 yo male, with family) just don't see the benefits anymore of W10M.

I have been carrying two phones, my 1520 and a Nexus 6 for the past 6 months daily to see for myself how the other side shakes out. It's been interesting for sure.

I still love the interface on W10m more than anything. I love having access to a simple file system on my phone. The tiles are great and actually seem to update with the CU on it.

But my nexus has abilities i never even knew phones could do. (in before Google hate), Google photos is fantastic, light years ahead of any album making that OneDrive does. Chromecast has allowed me to hook my whole home up for streaming both audio and video (absolutely fantastic), while I can't even get my 1520 to connect to my Xbox. Google assistant actually seems to recognize my voice about 50% better than Cortana. I could go on and on.

I think it's great that you are so pumped up for where Microsoft is going with the platform. We need believers like you to develop for the rest of us. But insulting people for wanting to use snapchat or whatever other app they need in their life isn't the way to do it. It just further reinforces many people beliefs that windows is just for business and the other two are for consumers.

Maybe things will work out like you say, maybe not. Hopefully there will be some users left by the time Microsoft gets around to releasing an actual product.

I've never been one much into cloud storage. I mean, I use it, but I'd rather store things locally, or share them over wifi locally. Its much faster, so for me more convenient. I like local syncing though, and it works pretty good for photos. Google photos on the other hand I found weird - for example, sharing a photo to google+ - actually pretty complicated.

Anyway, perhaps I am unusual there.

I am also loathe to stream. Even Bluetooth bothers me at times with its stops and starts. I'd rather the quality than the convenience, and use wires, and local files (although not all the time). That probably also makes me unusual. I still have Bluetooth audio, but it continually bugs me.

I've even gotten into HD flac, rather than mp3, after I rediscovered records. I am loathe to do things like Spotify, unless that's all I have available. I am looking forward to the day when storage space means zero compression on video. I'm more interested in zero artifacts than 4k. I'd even buy movies on a disc just to get that.

I'm more of a typical "power user" and "audiophile". I play desktop games. I write music on my PC. I do things on my windows tablet than android tablets can't do.

So yeah, I am probably not your typical human being, let alone consumer.

But I've been using a lot of android devices for years. My bb10 device, is crammed full of android apps, and I went and added chrome store apps for google apps on my windows tablet, like google maps, youtube. I'm not at all opposed to the view that people want to do certain things, and for this little moment in time, ios and android have the upper hand their on the little mobile screens.

In fact, that wasn't really anything to do with that large reply. Which was more about "there is more to it than just app count", if I were to make it normal person length (Ignoring my philosophical side rumblings about "Is it _really_ making our lives better" XD)

 

[BrunoMG]

I'm sorry but around me, the few people I knew with w10m say they left because there are no apps that they need, ESPECIALLY banking and public entities or even transports....things that a common mortal person does/uses everyday like pay a bill, check the bank account, recharge the monthly transport pass, see the tax ststus on a payment or even check the number of fidelity points they have in a Repsol/BP card....things that are harder to do on a wp (browser) or even impossible to do without an app!

 

[Drael646464]

I don't believe I insulted people for using snapchat?

I just pointed out it wasn't functionally that essential. One could easily use something more commonplace, like FB messenger. I find it personally odd when people try to insist on a messaging or social platform.

Instagram and FB are by far the most popular platforms, so it makes sense just to use those, if someone else doesn't have it IMO. Rather than expect everyone else shift to a less popular platform.

I use google+, I prefer it to FB, but I don't insist my friends all move over, and I keep a FB account to keep up with them. You know, when in rome.

 

[Drael646464]

I'm sorry but around me, the few people I knew with w10m say they left because there are no apps that they need, ESPECIALLY banking and public entities or even transports....things that a common mortal person uses everyday!

Well, win10 M never had those things. So why did they buy one in the first place if that's what they wanted?