One heck of a week for W10 Mobile. What's everyone feeling?

[Drael646464]

Sidenote, I wonder how easy it is to set up snapchat as a chrome app...Not that i'd ever use it, but that's often a rallying call of sorts round these forums.

 

[harishairi]

The most disadvantages that W10M has from the start is that no app from Google. No Google chrome for W10M. No Google Now. At least if Microsoft lacks the resource to develop their own services, they should allow or collaborate with Google so that W10M will be able to stay relevant with Android and IOS users. People will start to consider and buying for this reason. If only Microsoft realize this earlier. Just my opinion.

 

[BrunoMG]

Well, win10 M never had those things. So why did they buy one in the first place if that's what they wanted?

That's not the point! They didn't buy Lumia's thinking about what they wanted! Most users are ordinary people!
They bought Lumias because of the price and because they thought it would be roughly the same as android in possibilities.....i.e. w10m would have "those things".
They were wrong! When they realized that the possibilities of Android / iOS, were (very) reduced possibilities os w10m, they left!

I don't think this is hard to understand!
I know many, many cases like these!
Is the app gap the only issue against w10m? No.
Is the app gap one of the HUGE obstacles in adopting a w10m? YES. No Doubt!

Did you never bought anything that you regretted later?

 

[Drael646464]

That's not the point!
They bought Lumias because of the price and because they thought it would be roughly the same as android in possibilities...i.e. w10m would have "those things". (I don't mention iOS because IPhones are expensive)
They were wrong! When they realized the possibilities of Android / iOS, and the (reduced) possibilities os w10m, they left!

I don't think this is hard to understand!

Did you never bought anything that you regretted later?

Sure, I have. Not often really though, I tend to do a lot of research on any big purchases, and then just don't worry about the small ones.

Perhaps it wasn't your point but it was mine. Windows 10 mobile never had those things, it was never advertised to have those things, no one ever told anyone it had those things (like snapchat).

The situation of UWP apps has improved vastly since the release of windows 10. The number of windows 10 mobile users has deceased. Now, perhaps the average consumer just doesn't really understand technology well, and that's fair enough for them and perhaps also you are right that apps are kind of a big deal on little screen - but again its not like apps have decreased alongside marketshare. There is no 1 to 1 correlation there in the drop in marketshare. That was my _only_ original point, that there is more to shifts in marketplace than sheer functionality, for all the marketers would have you believe otherwise.

If that was all their was, amazon tablets would be a bust, chromebook would be too, and apple would rule the marketplace and very few windows phones or blackberry phones would ever have been brought. If number of "big" apps were everything, the whole marketplace, and the history of the tech marketplace would be different. Windows store is bigger than amazon's app store. Both are a lot bigger than the chrome store.

People probably invested on those products, like BB and windows 10 mobile, partly because there were things they didn't like about the mainstream offerings. They probably purchased them, as "alternatives". They might have purchased BB for its security, or Microsoft for its office intergration. Maybe they preferred the interface. Maybe they liked the hub, or tiles. Maybe they didn't like apples closed system or were bugged by googles privacy and freemium models.

And if they changed their minds later, sure they changed their minds, but that alone shows there is more to marketplace share, or mindshare, than apps. There's a lot that goes on with the strangely sheepish human being. A lot of the time people act, and they have no idea why they do things themselves. It's quite the area in psychology.

Which again, is my only point. Not that small screen touch apps aren't fairy important to people in the very present market, for their conveniences , when you include cultural trends/zeitgeist and personal habits especially.

Not that android does not have more. Just that there is more to marketshare than apps alone.

Hope that's clearer

If not, I surrender! lol

Although side philosophical point.

Where is society leading, if it becomes so important than one spends a few less seconds using a computer to do quite miraculous things, that it earns the label "important"? What would have made you literally treated as a god 100 years ago, nothing more than an irritation that one wants out of the way?

What happens to our children's children in a society that puts convenience over personal ability, skill, knowledge persistence and strength? Where only the tiniest number of people know how things work, and the rest just need them to work, perfectly, yesterday, or they get upset.

I guess that journey started long ago, when we stepped off the savannah, but I can't help but think of something like the movie wall-e. Or something worse, like brave new world or the TV show caprica.

 

[mattiasnyc]

Has anyone done the math on how a static actual MS userbase (i.e. absolute numbers) would shrink in market share with the recent increase in smartphone use? Because there's a difference between people leaving W10 Mobile and more people using smartphones but fewer choosing W10M when buying a new phone.

 

[Drael646464]

Has anyone done the math on how a static actual MS userbase (i.e. absolute numbers) would shrink in market share with the recent increase in smartphone use? Because there's a difference between people leaving W10 Mobile and more people using smartphones but fewer choosing W10M when buying a new phone.

Interesting point. Year on year growth of smartphones has been ridiculous. Even with the market winding down to 6% last year, we are still in adoption (or at least, were last quarter).

I wonder if, in fact the total windows 10 mobile users hasn't changed that much? If so, it would not be so much that windows 10 mobile has shrunk, more that android has grown.

 

[camaroz1985]

That's a very good point. Unfortunately, I still think W10M use is shrinking in absolute numbers, not just relative.

 

[etphoto]

There is no doubt W10M numbers are shrinking. Just think of the hundreds every week looking for a new phone and forced to look elsewhere because no WM phones are being offered to the average consumer.

Twitter: @PhotographyET

 

[sporosarcina]

Direct Result of News: I won't upgrade my 950 with an Elite X3.
Reasoning: Not because I think the platform is dead, but rather because I expect that the next "generation" of "mobile" W10 will be W10ARM and the X3 will not get the entire feature set of W10ARM because it will require at least an Snapdragon 835. I think the X3 will get most of the features (minus win32 emulation) and serve as the "testbed" for W10ARM, but the full W10ARM will be seen on either "the next category" (Surface Phone) or the ARM powered Surface 4.
Result: I'll keep my 950 till the W10ARM idea shakes out, it serves me well and does everything I need professionally. I think the X3 and a few other phones will get a W10 Cloud-esque update with W10ARM (just UWP).

 

[BrunoMG]

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/04/19/microsoft_windows_phone_insignificant/

Brilliant....

Like Pink Floyd's song.....................All in all it's just another brick in the wall.....

 

[anon(50597)]

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/04/19/microsoft_windows_phone_insignificant/

Brilliant....

Like Pink Floyd's song.....................All in all it's just another brick in the wall.....

Makes sense to get it out to the most people first. I know people take this personally but I don't.

Sent from mTalk on my SP4

 

[mattiasnyc]

Well, you guys can think whatever you want, but whatever is true is true. I have no idea if and how many users are leaving W10M. It doesn't sound as if you guys know either, you're just on the negative-train it seems.

The way I see it is that if the market share is small but users aren't leaving in significant amounts then that tells us something about the actual user experience. And that's really the point I was trying to get at.

There is no doubt W10M numbers are shrinking. Just think of the hundreds every week looking for a new phone and forced to look elsewhere because no WM phones are being offered to the average consumer.

Twitter: @PhotographyET

That's a very good point. Unfortunately, I still think W10M use is shrinking in absolute numbers, not just relative.

 

[mattiasnyc]

Makes sense to get it out to the most people first. I know people take this personally but I don't.

Sent from mTalk on my SP4

Now, if we wanted to spend our energy not on being negative-nancies online, we could make a concerted effort to contact people in charge of things to try to get them to develop for W10M first, for example. I'm not entirely sure it'll have an effect, but certainly just typing about it herewon't.

 

[Drael646464]

There is no doubt W10M numbers are shrinking. Just think of the hundreds every week looking for a new phone and forced to look elsewhere because no WM phones are being offered to the average consumer.

Twitter: @PhotographyET

https://www.onmsft.com/news/windows...he-us-and-uk-according-to-kantars-latest-data

Actually it increased in market share in US and UK recently. 1.7% and 2.1% respectively, whilst holding 2.7% in the EU5. 5.8% market share in Australia. 4.3% in Italy.

Considering the number of smartphone users in those populations, those are hardly insignificant numbers. Looking at these numbers, I can't help but feel many of the doom and gloomers are wildly overstating the situation.

Whats also interesting is that growth in marketshare isn't year on year growth. Which if I am reading this correctly means we have just had a quarter of negative growth. The first in the history of the smartphone market, and the figurative "writing on the wall" for the premium smartphone market. In other words, the turning of the tide of adoption and market saturation.

Although oddly I've seen not articles to that effect yet. If we've hit negative growth, this is the biggest news the tech sector has had in a long time. This will be a veeery interesting year as will next if we have already reached saturation. Basically if that's happened we'll see Apple and Samsung wildly flail to prevent inevitable and ongoing shrinkage (budget models, form variations, new products), massive growth in budget markets and a desperate fight for dominance in "the next big thing". Brands like Xiaomi, Huawai, Oppo. I could also see apple and Samsung push for Asian markets where such brands are still considered symbols of status.

Be extremely good timing for full voice platforms, or new form factors also if that's the case, and smartphones are already shrinking - It could be super fortituous for Microsofts plan, a sort of perfect timing.

 

[Drael646464]

Well I had a look at the q1 and q4 numbers. And from what I can tell, there have been negative growth trends in the mature markets like US and UK.

Android shrinking compared to apple in the US. Windows growing in the UK and US marketshare.

For sure mature markets are reaching saturation. Which means premium phone makers will now be changing gears - focusing on emerging markets, budget products, and new tech inventions.

2017-2018 will be the most interesting years we've had in tech for a long time. Status quo, is falling.

 

[mattiasnyc]

https://www.onmsft.com/news/windows...he-us-and-uk-according-to-kantars-latest-data

Actually it increased in market share in US and UK recently. 1.7% and 2.1% respectively, whilst holding 2.7% in the EU5. 5.8% market share in Australia. 4.3% in Italy.

Considering the number of smartphone users in those populations, those are hardly insignificant numbers. Looking at these numbers, I can't help but feel many of the doom and gloomers are wildly overstating the situation.

First of all, I agree with your conclusion.

Secondly, I really appreciate you taking the time to looking into this and posting it. It's annoying as @#$ to read doom-and-gloom commentary that is void of either reasoning or data. So now we can have a conversation of what the above means; if it is a significant change or not.

 

[Mikepoint]

Never really used the apps. I'm a web browser. I fell in love with the live tiles, on one else has them. Some folks say," too much activity on the home screen" baby that's life and information. For me as long as they continue to improve on Cortana for PC, Xbox, Surface products and let it trickle down to Edge mobile,I'm cool with it. Just list your old(but in good condition) mobile devices on eBay, I'll need a replacement.

 

[Drael646464]

The most disadvantages that W10M has from the start is that no app from Google. No Google chrome for W10M. No Google Now. At least if Microsoft lacks the resource to develop their own services, they should allow or collaborate with Google so that W10M will be able to stay relevant with Android and IOS users. People will start to consider and buying for this reason. If only Microsoft realize this earlier. Just my opinion.

That's because google are being nasty, basically.

Its easy as heck to port android and ios apps. Google just doesn't _want_ to put its apps on the UWP platform. It's a huge middle finger to windows users, really, desktop, tablet, mobile, the lot of us.

You can't blame MS for that, they have all their apps on iOS, Android etc. They helped Samsung make special DeX versions of their apps. They made it possible to port an app from ios or android in five minutes, or change a win32 to uwp. They have made it as easy for developers as humanly possible. They have been playing real friendly.

Honestly that, and the "use chrome" pop up on google search and youtube is making me want to never use another google service again.

Bings not really up to stratch in my country yet, but I'm considering switching to bing maps, and another video platform actually. I've enjoyed google services, but I don't like the way they are treating consumers these days.

 

[PerfectReign]

Actually it increased in market share in US and UK recently. 1.7% and 2.1% respectively, whilst holding 2.7% in the EU5. 5.8% market share in Australia. 4.3% in Italy.

wow, kind of reminds me of when I was looking at Linux figures about ten years ago!


Sent from mTalk

 

[HoosierDaddy]

You can't blame MS. They made it possible to port an app from ios or android in five minutes, or change a win32 to uwp.

Empirically I have to believe that is all BS. I know MS claims that and maybe you can blame stupidity for why most apps haven't already been ported if that was true but then you see splashed on WC front page a review of an app developed by an MS employee and it is only available on iOS.