07-22-2017 08:54 AM
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  1. pkcable's Avatar
    I'm in a rather unique position. I love all platforms. I currently have a Lumia 950 that I use sorta as a PC. It's connected to a continuum dock with a monitor and keyboard and mouse. I also have a wireless keyboard/trackpad combo and 55 inch TV at home I can use with it. I can always use that regardless of MS's support, at least until it breaks down, etc. Otherwise I have Apples and Androids to play with, and I generally get a new phone every 2 to 3 months. Right now a One Plus 5 is days away and I JUST got done playing with a BlackBerry KEYone. (passed on to Dad)
    Muessig and libra89 like this.
    06-23-2017 10:35 AM
  2. horbeme's Avatar
    for me im not sure what to believe if MS brings out another phone or MS mobile is dead. at this point seeing is believing, what would like to imagine is that at least MS will try one more time adding to the surface brand. i am currently using a S7 and i must say i like the phone but miss my MS phone. the only problem i see for most ppl if MS were to come out with a Surface phone would be the price. ppl always want MS products to be cheap regardless how feature packed and when they brings things first to the market. you can satisfy everyone, if MS can truly give it another shot then i will drop the S7 in a heartbeat. i will not hold my breath, dream or pray for another Windows phone, as of now seeing is believing.
    FXi2 likes this.
    06-23-2017 10:47 AM
  3. Christopher Fernandes's Avatar
    What if there won't be any windows mobile devices?

    Ans. Install Full Windows 10 ROM in any Android device and run it in tablet mode lol.
    gnomagico likes this.
    06-23-2017 11:06 AM
  4. pkcable's Avatar
    Perhaps this little story is pretty telling. My friend is a Windows Mobile diehard. He owned 2 Lumia 822s before upgrading to the 928. WELL his 928 got fried recently and all Verizon had to offer him for Windows phone was a 3 year old Lumia 735! He balked at that and went Android.
    libra89 likes this.
    06-23-2017 11:21 AM
  5. SlideWRX's Avatar
    This may come off as angry or bitter, but please know that I like my 950, and I hope to be using it for a while, but MS inspires no confidence in me with whatever plan the have for mobile.
    Again. Think long term. Will we still be using the same form factor in five years or ten years? I'm guessing not.
    We are still using the Desktop PC form factor from 40 years ago, the laptop form factor from 30 years ago, the handheld form factor from 25 years ago...
    People still buy separate music players (even young people), buy the upgrade for the in car navigation, even though phones could handle both of those easily.

    I guess my issue is with this idea that a new 'phone like device' will replace the smartphone. Nothing will replace a smartphone other than another smartphone. *Some* people might use the new device exclusively, but not many.

    Originally Posted by Drael646464 

    *Os code shows new device SKU for "Andromeda"
    *MS promises to bring new keyboard to whole OS, mobile included
    *MS promises to bring "enterprise features" to w10m late US summer
    *MS _demo's_ and promises to bring files on demand to win10m
    *MS promises to bring timeline to win10m
    *HP works with MSFT closely, and teases "probably the new x3"
    *Wharton brooks told "don't release your new phone, we won't support it for rs3, because we are making some changes to mobile, but they can't say any more, hush hush"
    *UWP, entire future of the windows platform -win10m, UWP powered OS
    *CEO says "we will make more phones, they just won't look like smartphones today"
    *COO of surface division "we will make more phones, they just won't look like smartphones today".
    *Cshell seen in proto, runs on x3
    This is mostly promises. Actual commitment is lacking.
    *HP announced the x3 16 months ago. Any kind of update or variants should have been announced by now. They had a phone at one of the shows that wasn't an x3 but was close 4 months ago, and nothing has come from it yet. The only thing that keeps this alive is that focusing on enterprise means a 2 year release cycle, since the latest & greatest every year thing is a consumer draw.
    *Delaying the Wharton Brooks phone killed it even more than if they had released it on time. The market for W10M devices was crashing, and no-one was left to help with the last hurrah as the market went to basically zero.
    *I'm still waiting for MS to put up or shut up with regard to porting programs to W10M from regular windows. Haven't seen Edge with extensions in W10M yet, but it has been on the desktop for 2 or 3 years now. App developers won't be interested when even MS won't support the platform with their own software.
    *Continuum is cool but since web browsing on it is poor, I've gone back to using a desktop when I need to use a keyboard/mouse. Extensions in the web browser blocking out scripts/adds/trackers make my 6 year old laptop better for web browsing than my 1 year old phone...
    *MS designed mobile to run on virtually the same hardware as Android; look at the Idol 4s. yet no other manufacturer is willing to take the risk with phones they already released!!! Samsung & google have the lions share of the android market; any other manufacturer could port W10M to any of their devices to see if there is any demand. virtually no extra hardware support, with limited software support needed. Yet no-one else is out there seeing if there is a market. Heck, they could set it up so that an android model gets flashed to W10M only when an order is placed, and only then put in W10M specific packaging. No unsold stock of phones, virtually no investment.

    The irony to all this is that I'm looking at a Surface Pro or Book as my next laptop. :D At least MS supports those product though. I'd be shocked if they stopped those product lines...
    FXi2 likes this.
    06-23-2017 11:26 AM
  6. FXi2's Avatar
    I agree a ton with this. I think the Surface lineup ends up short when comparing to Apple simply because they do not have a pair of premium hardware phones (and perhaps an older chipset pair to appeal to more budget minded) that lines up with the Apple product stream. But there is really no sign this is something they want to go into. The apps are a key factor too. I can walk into any Apple store with a 4 year old device and get help or repair. It may not be instant repair if the device is old enough but it's there. MS can do this with Surface Pro's and books and the new laptop. But phones... That is a missing thing. Is it the end of phones and therefore a good go forward strategy? Perhaps but the death of PC's was claimed for the last 5-7 years and it's not true yet. PC's changed and did not die. Would not phones also change? The device may well alter form, but I don't agree that that is death rather transformation.

    Anyway they needs build and support that stands up to the iPhone model (5 years of updates not 24-36 months which is a Google idiocy at the prices of these things). They need apps - and that means they have to stick with it and that means even if losing money for a while. They need marketing.

    Can these things be done? It really doesn't feel like it will be done. We'll see. But for me, wholly sad as it is, I need to go iPhone and keep Win devices as secondary if they come. It may well be the 835 got delayed enough that we just haven't seen products yet and Surface is always super secret before release. I'm ok with that. If such a device comes I can take the loss on a traded in iPhone. I would easily come back to the platform. But after many years and being abandoned as a VZ customer (which I need to be), I need MS to bring the product to me. Bring me that support level, that app level, that build quality and you have me. But if not, the world continues on and we have to get stuff done, day to day. I have to use a tool that works right now, and change if something changes going forward.

    Well I used to think the same way but the leaked CShell build gave me hope. I am still not 100% sure about what I am going to do but I hope I will be able to hold on to my 950 until October 2018.

    Microsoft has good reasons to not release a new mobile device, but if they learnt from their mistakes form the past they should know exactly what they did wrong (cough cough marketing cough cough), then I think they could achieve great things, especially if they manage to convert all centennial apps to full UWP apps. To be honest, we all know it always has been and still is about apps. If they don't approach developers properly and make a great device that is going to present the power of Windows 10 and UWP to the consumers and market it all correctly, they should be good to go.

    Apple innovations are at all time low, yet their sales are at all time high and that's all because of the build quality of their devices and their marketing department. MS learnt how to market Surface properly, hope they do the same with mobile devices.
    Kot Prada likes this.
    06-23-2017 11:44 AM
  7. TgeekB's Avatar
    I think no matter what you believe, reality is its going to be a while until they turn things around on the mobile front. Patience is a virtue.

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    06-23-2017 12:32 PM
  8. Cosmin Petrenciuc's Avatar
    CShell must have at least one real world implementation. It would be absurd to assume that Microsoft has invested money and effort into something that will go straight to the trash bin. It might be that CShell will run only on tablets and maybe the Surface Phone will never come to life. There is no point in wailing now about a possible dark future. Even if there will never be a ultra mobile device that will run Windows 10 OS, the world will continue to spin. The Sun will continue to rise and set every day.
    Microsoft is mainly a software company. Now they are focused on providing cloud services and AI services. And their services are already present on Android and IOS. I like using Cortana, Word and Excel. If I'll have to I'll use these services on Android.
    Mike Semblance likes this.
    06-23-2017 12:38 PM
  9. LaVike's Avatar
    *Os code shows new device SKU for "Andromeda"
    *MS promises to bring new keyboard to whole OS, mobile included
    *MS promises to bring "enterprise features" to w10m late US summer
    *MS _demo's_ and promises to bring files on demand to win10m
    *MS promises to bring timeline to win10m
    *HP works with MSFT closely, and teases "probably the new x3"
    *Wharton brooks told "don't release your new phone, we won't support it for rs3, because we are making some changes to mobile, but they can't say any more, hush hush"
    *UWP, entire future of the windows platform -win10m, UWP powered OS
    *CEO says "we will make more phones, they just won't look like smartphones today"
    *COO of surface division "we will make more phones, they just won't look like smartphones today".
    *Cshell seen in proto, runs on x3

    NOW, what you are proposing is that this is a complete wall of lies. That not one element of it is true, and that MSFT, will fall flat on its face, with consumers, developers and its one OS, onecore, UWP - all will be admitted as farce, and MSFT will roll over and give up, because it gain immediate success with the ambitious goal of unifying windows.

    AND what you are proposing is that they have software prototypes, on win10m, for things like files on demand, and cshell, with probably thousands of man hours involved coding them, and despite all that wasted money, have no intention to release any of it.

    I find that concept, not credible. The simplest explaination is usually the correct one.

    I don't know exactly what the plan is over the next few years, but I know that its not "giving up". Companies give up when they take losses, and lose profitability. When they are profitable, or investing rather than bleeding losses, they try to invest and expand into every viable area.

    I mean, look at this - google has ambition for entering the desktop market. They are developing a new desktop/mobile hybrid OS, called fushia - do they, IMO, have any real chance of total success in the desktop market? No.

    Would they even take a tiny sliver? Well, maybe. Maybe. I wouldn't call chrome a success globally. And replacing android might make some people a little put out, as people have invested in that. And yet, they are investing money in it. Because that's what corporations do, they expand. The plan, the machinate, they wheel and deal.

    Like the royal bloodlines in game of thrones.
    I think that you are underestimating the Massively Screwed-up dis-Functional Team (MSFT). Lot's of bridges have been built to nowhere. To be honest, at this point I could see MSFT doing the same thing. They build an OS that cannot run on a device, hence the "bridge to nowhere". They will do all of the enhancements that you said they have committed to but there just won't be a device that runs them.

    You are going to call that crazy but given how they executed the Nokia acquisition, it makes perfect sense. Why would they pay BILLIONS for a device manufacturer and then shut it down. It makes no sense. But they did it! So, updating an OS that has no target device, while crazy to most of us, isn't out of the realm of what MSFT can do.

    I'm actually starting to think that will happen.
    06-23-2017 01:10 PM
  10. dorelse's Avatar
    There won't be...what there will be are new W10A 'mobile' devices running the SD835 or higher in the 6"+ category with a pen. Think a connected HP Stream 7 w/Pen running a SD835 w/W10A and using their fresh dynamic size UI they've been working on. (Obviously better spec'd...)

    Windows App Store capable which will hopefully help along with everything migrating to the store. It'll never see double digits on its own...but it will all be part of the same system, so it might not matter as much.

    I'm sure MS will change their minds again in 6-9 months and we'll move on from the 4th reboot to the 5th...
    06-23-2017 01:13 PM
  11. gold-stars's Avatar
    MS isn't giving up but whatever comes out in the future will be a device that facilitates "content production" not "content consumption" so phone/laptop hybrids if they can make it work as MS re-trenches around the PC.

    It will not be a contender in any meaningful way to Android or Apple phones which are the primary content consumption platforms.

    Of course the problem is the Windows Store doesn't yet reflect this and still reflects the old mobile strategy so MS needs to a smack to the head with a clue by four into getting professional software onto the Windows Store.

    On top of that MS will continue to shoot itself in the foot, guessing right what it should be doing but typically fumbling the execution.
    PerfectReign likes this.
    06-23-2017 01:32 PM
  12. tgp's Avatar
    I think that you are underestimating the Massively Screwed-up dis-Functional Team (MSFT).
    That's harsh! But it has some validity if watered down. My employer is a Microsoft MVP. He is invited to the Redmond once or twice a year. He once said that if we would see the lack of cohesiveness on campus, we would be surprised that they can produce anything at all! However, there is probably some of that in any large corporation.
    06-23-2017 01:32 PM
  13. Williaml99's Avatar
    Great Thread

    I have simple tastes. Been using MS smart phones since 2002. When it leaked out about the 950XL and 950, I thought great specs and removable battery. I thought could not ask for more. Remember I said I had simple tastes. 😊 I had to wait about a year before AT&T came to my area so I could jump from Verizon to have these two phones for my wife and I. We run the production OS. I am happy with the XL my wife just OK with her 950. I am concerned about something being available before we have to jump to another platform. I probably should get my wife an iPhone as I think she would be very happy. We are invested in one drive. She does think the camera on our phones are awesome and important to her so the HP is probably too big and camera not good enough.

    My wife’s friends and family thinks her 950 is cool. She explains it is a little more like a computer than the typical phone. I have been in tech for 35 years and I like the idea now of the windows phone being more like a PC. I would like to be able to install Chrome or at least stream XM radio or MLB.TV from the browser.

    As has been said on this site if MS came out with a phone that was basically on par hardware wise with the best out there it probably would get no traction and I believe that. For me I would love it because I really do not want to leave the windows platform. I think the continuum, Cshell and UWP is exiting.

    What if there won't be any windows mobile devices? Well, not much choice then when the current crop of hardware is not practical to use it is Android or Apple. I truly hope not to do that.

    Thanks for the friendly discussion.
    Guytronic and Chintan Gohel like this.
    06-23-2017 01:37 PM
  14. Julian Barker's Avatar
    You are one hundred percent correct. No new windows Mobile phones will come out but windows on (super smooth & stable) ARM is coming and CShell will make windows on ARM be a desktop, a laptop, a tablet and a phone in one device.

    MSoft can't compete in the mobile space alone but by bridging the genres they can reverse back into it without anyone ever noticing. Let's not forget that Windows 10 mobile is actually a pretty great mobile OS and with the recent and current developments occurring with Windows 10 dtop (Fluent design, people app ) It's going to leap forwards. (catch back up with Ios and Android mobile OSs.

    The king (his cousin) is dead, long live the king ( his cousin)

    Personally I'd like to see MSoft review the usage logs of windows 10 mobile and provide any regular user a free upgrade to a genre defining device. Thank you Microsoft.

    I recall how Windows RT went out with a whimper.... Don't expect MSoft to say anything.
    Guytronic likes this.
    06-23-2017 02:04 PM
  15. Alex Zapata's Avatar
    This is something I've pondered for a while. Guess we'll just have to find out!!!
    06-23-2017 02:51 PM
  16. xFalk's Avatar
    I would prefer to sit in the back of my closet, cradling my almost antique 822, rocking back and forth in utter denial than thinking that we will never see another Windows phone.
    G4Grandad likes this.
    06-23-2017 03:11 PM
  17. Drael646464's Avatar
    Andromeda keeps popping up in your replies, what is it exactly?




    But what will that next category look like? Similar but different or vastly different?




    Say what? I'm not losing hope, just imagining a what if scenario - I usually do that in my free time




    One would think that with 500 million (and counting) W10 users worldwide, there would be more UWP apps then there are right now - again, marketing plays a hand here as developers need to feel the pull and consumers need to give the push through their demand -you can't demand something that you don't know about

    Some of the big names are making the UWP idea harder to push though- such as Google - their apps are conspicuously missing and that creates a mindset with other developers that the UWP idea isn't ready or that the MS store ecosystem isn't worth developing for - never mind that that Google and MS have had some friction



    Not always, some of the Nokia devices were quite ahead when they released, like the 41MP camera sensor, or the widest selfie camera (at the time) or sensorcore for fitness tracking and various functions relating to movement - or even continuum which you have to admit was new




    One can argue that there are more devices like Hololens and IoT - but then again, these are niche cases and very few would actually target UWP just for the sake of IoT - unless my understanding of IoT is off?




    To put it in a different perspective - the best and fastest hardware is only needed if you're running really intensive tasks, which begs the question why your tasks aren't efficient? If an android phone with 2GB RAM cannot perform better than a windows phone with 1GB RAM, do we criticise the hardware or the OS that uses the hardware?
    Andromeda is an upcoming Windows sku. Its been found a few places in current Windows code. Its referenced next to Windows home, pro, Windows Mobile as having its own cshell variant, and also features a 'hinge angle' value and two separate sets of gyros. So I believe it's not only hardware too, but the ' new hardware and branch of Windows 10 mobile' insider leaks in several places recently have been talking about. Specifically I think it's a dual even detachable clamshell , a sort of predecessor to true folding graphene tablets
    Kot Prada likes this.
    06-23-2017 05:10 PM
  18. Albert Sharp's Avatar
    C'mon now, how can you say you're a fan if you don't know the answer to this. Of course windows 10 mobile is dead. but if you haven't been paying attention. full windows 10 is coming to mobile which means you will likely be able to use cshell to "look like a phone" then turn around flip the phone open and download a app like bluestacks and run android apps all you want. Sooo, there it is....., now what would really be amazing is if Microsoft built its own android emulation software to work specifically for windows 10 and cshell and allowed the devs of those apps to add their android apps to the windows store. I think MS will probably add something like Windows 10 S to the phones and give the option to upgrade to windows home for something like $19.99 so that you can download bluestacks onto your phone and run android apps. IJS
    06-23-2017 08:10 PM
  19. chataddicted's Avatar
    Over the year ms failed in several segment that is in marketing strategy, great hardware and OS evolution. I think they have already done with this buggy win 10 mob os. Just like in 2010 they did with win mob os. And in 12 win 7.8. Now they need a fresh start. Make a fresh os. Fresh team. Fresh hardware. Start every thing fresh again.
    06-24-2017 12:08 AM
  20. Allan Breum's Avatar
    They all will. The thing is when you already have a following (Apple, Google) it's easier to sell something new. That's the issue MS is up against. Trust.
    Honestly, I think (and hope) that if MSFT come out with something new and innovative that uses win10, almost all the mobile users they have lost to Android and iOs will return.
    Win10m is still the best mobile OS i have ever used.

    But, they need to get the major app-developers to port their stuff (bribe them, extort them, or whatever), or people will say 'hmm, nice tech-demo' and just go about their lives.
    Kot Prada likes this.
    06-24-2017 01:54 AM
  21. gnomagico's Avatar
    Even if completely unrealistic, because it's so cheap to make a W10 smartphone (it's only a matter of deploying an already made software) at least from an OEM (even more from a Chinese one), the answer to the question is quite simple, I'll buy an Android device.
    Luckily this is not gonna happen, new WoA devices will be ready for Xmas 2017, I'll wait for prices to calm down and bugs to be fixed and probably buy in May 2018, with my 950 lasting 2 years and still an up to date device, I'll give it to one of my family members.
    Kot Prada likes this.
    06-24-2017 04:58 AM
  22. chenryhen's Avatar
    If there really is no forthcoming mobile offering with Win10, I'd be sad, but I would probably end up just getting an iPhone. Since I already have an iPad, at least I wouldn't have to re-buy apps on Android that way.
    06-24-2017 06:58 AM
  23. AndyCalling's Avatar
    Personally, I'll just dump the idea of a smart phone and use my Lumia phone(s) in dumb mode to provide internet to my 8 inch windows tablet. I was considering doing that rather than getting the L950XL, but it's so good I couldn't help myself.

    Let's ask another question though, what if MS and partners DO make another phone running Windows as all indicators suggest? With all the current talk about new devices reaching fever pitch, by the time my 950XL is two years old in Q1 2019 I fully expect an upgrade option to be out of early adopter premium price range by then. Can't wait to see what comes out this year ready for that day. Who else is getting hyped by all the C-shell development we're hearing about?
    Kot Prada likes this.
    06-24-2017 07:14 AM
  24. wagadesa's Avatar
    I just bought my first Windows 10 phone. It's the HP Elite X3. The phone and OS are top notch. This is my first Windows phone in many years. The state of Microsoft's mobile offerings doesn't look so good right now and I'm not quite sure why. In my opinion, the HP Elite X3 which is a year old now - actually rivals any of the other makers devices recently released or projected to be released this year. The major difference is commitment to the mobile phone sector and of course APPS. Apparently, Google and Apple view mobile phones as an important segment in their integrated platforms.

    I for one, certainly hope Microsoft can get it together on the Mobile phone front - I liked the Lumia 1520 with Windows 8 mobile many years ago, and I'm really liking the HP Elite X3 with Windows 10 Phone now. Works very well with my Surface Pro. Come-on Microsoft let's get this mobile phone offering back to where it should be. I'm an electrical engineer in RF, contact me I may be able to assist or even lead the charge.
    06-24-2017 07:21 AM
  25. TgeekB's Avatar
    Honestly, I think (and hope) that if MSFT come out with something new and innovative that uses win10, almost all the mobile users they have lost to Android and iOs will return.
    Win10m is still the best mobile OS i have ever used.

    But, they need to get the major app-developers to port their stuff (bribe them, extort them, or whatever), or people will say 'hmm, nice tech-demo' and just go about their lives.
    Its going to be interesting to see what happens. I'm not extremely optimistic people will just leave an ecosystem they are comfortable with to jump back to Windows. As you stated, they need to have things people want, and that's easier said then done. I think that might take years and, therefore, we'll initially see just current users, businesses, and people who like to try new things and have the money jump on board. Others will sit back and watch. If devs help create the ecosystem they want, others will slowly come back. In think its fantasy to think this will catapult Windows back into the mobile market, but I would love to be wrong!

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    06-24-2017 07:24 AM
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