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04-11-2015 02:44 AM
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  1. runamuck83's Avatar
    Seems like in order for "Windows 10" to succeed as a whole (PC, tablet, phone, Xbox, etc.) there needs to be a tectonic shift away from traditional Win32 apps to Microsoft's "Windows Apps" (aka Universal Apps) model.

    Is this a realistic idea and would it ever happen?

    The reason I ask is that there are various apps that run traditional Win32 (iTunes, Chrome, etc.) - what is the motivation to these companies to transition to "Windows apps" versus Win32, beyond reach to additional devices? Is it better in any way?
    Gautam Kabiraj likes this.
    04-01-2015 07:04 AM
  2. TheLumaniac's Avatar
    Seems like in order for "Windows 10" to succeed as a whole (PC, tablet, phone, Xbox, etc.) there needs to be a tectonic shift away from traditional Win32 apps to Microsoft's "Windows Apps" (aka Universal Apps) model.

    Is this a realistic idea and would it ever happen?

    The reason I ask is that there are various apps that run traditional Win32 (iTunes, Chrome, etc.) - what is the motivation to these companies to transition to "Windows apps" versus Win32, beyond reach to additional devices? Is it better in any way?
    Well, more and more Windows apps seem to appear and some of them are actually pretty good.

    Will they replace Win32 Programs? Not in the next decade in my opinion...What about later? Yes. Slowly, but yes.

    I believe that it's easier to make a Windows app. especially for new, excited and inexperienced programmers, so they would choose to make Windows apps. However, some famous Win32 Programs like WinRAR and Photoshop will probably never become Windows apps (WinRAR might actually become, since it's a small program, but rewriting Photoshop...no).

    But it's not just that. Making Windows apps allows you to easily provide new updates to users and easily receive feedback, while it makes downloading applications easier and safer (one place to find everything, one place where everything is safe).

    So, considering all that I would say that Windows apps will get much more popular in the next few years. More and more well made Windows apps will make their their appearance, but it's going to take a lot of time to replace Win32 programs, if that ever happens.

    And don't forget: The only way for Windows apps to succeed is for Windows 10 to succeed. It must become the new Windows 7 and Windows 10 should also get better sales than WP8.1 sales.

    (Sorry if some of the stuff I wrote doesn't make much sense. English is not my first language and I am in a hurry right now, so I can't check for any errors!)
    Last edited by TheLumaniac; 04-01-2015 at 11:50 AM.
    milkyway likes this.
    04-01-2015 07:23 AM
  3. jhoff80's Avatar
    For what it's worth, there are already WinRT replacements for WinRAR. I use '8zip' from the Store myself, and very rarely do I need anything else.

    Anyway, I think once people start seeing benefits of Store apps like high DPI support, settings sync, and once they see how easy it is to move to a new computer with them, they will be more interested. And hopefully, that'll coincide with these apps becoming more powerful over time as well.
    04-01-2015 12:14 PM
  4. TheLumaniac's Avatar
    For what it's worth, there are already WinRT replacements for WinRAR. I use '8zip' from the Store myself, and very rarely do I need anything else.
    That's true, there are apps with similar features and a lot of people rely on them. WinRAR was merely an example of a famous Win32 program that is not yet in the Windows Store...

    Anyway, I think once people start seeing benefits of Store apps like high DPI support, settings sync, and once they see how easy it is to move to a new computer with them, they will be more interested. And hopefully, that'll coincide with these apps becoming more powerful over time as well.
    Exactly. I mentioned some of the benefits of making a Windows app instead of a Win32 program, but using one also has it's benefits (which are actually quite a lot!).
    04-01-2015 12:52 PM
  5. bobsentell's Avatar
    Yes. Once Microsoft makes a Apps version of all of their first party applications, people will get used to it. Businesses will be the last to change but the average consumer will probably use the Windows Store rather soon.
    04-01-2015 09:34 PM
  6. xandros9's Avatar
    Maybe for average users someday, but not going to happen anytime soon for more advanced users and situations.
    920Walker likes this.
    04-01-2015 10:56 PM
  7. EBUK's Avatar
    Can you imaging Windows itself having nothing but Windows Apps?

    For simple needs, Windows Apps may begin to dominate, but more powerful applications - ones that are very demanding of processors and memory - will probably always be the traditional .exe files.
    04-02-2015 02:31 AM
  8. jhoff80's Avatar
    Try using something like ArtRage Touch (almost completely a duplicate of the desktop ArtRage 4), or FL Studio Groove, or the new StaffPad app before saying that Windows Apps will only be good for simple needs. I mean, yes, there aren't enough really powerful apps in the Store (and I also always want to see the APIs continue to improve), but saying that Store apps can't be powerful just isn't true.
    04-02-2015 11:24 AM
  9. EBUK's Avatar
    I look forward to seeing a fully featured photo editing app, video editing suite, and DAW appearing as Windows Apps. Those are the demanding programs I use on a daily basis.

    Sure, there are some good photo editor (I use Fotor) but none of them is fully featured like PhotoShop or Lightroom.
    04-02-2015 11:48 AM
  10. jhoff80's Avatar
    I look forward to seeing a fully featured photo editing app, video editing suite, and DAW appearing as Windows Apps. Those are the demanding programs I use on a daily basis.

    Sure, there are some good photo editor (I use Fotor) but none of them is fully featured like PhotoShop or Lightroom.
    My point is that it's not impossible, as these already powerful apps demonstrate... it's just that nobody is doing it (and with the small numbers of people using apps in 8.x, why would they bother?).
    04-02-2015 11:52 AM
  11. illidanx's Avatar
    For what it's worth, there are already WinRT replacements for WinRAR. I use '8zip' from the Store myself, and very rarely do I need anything else.

    Anyway, I think once people start seeing benefits of Store apps like high DPI support, settings sync, and once they see how easy it is to move to a new computer with them, they will be more interested. And hopefully, that'll coincide with these apps becoming more powerful over time as well.
    8zip only opens .rar files. It does not create .rar files.
    04-02-2015 05:26 PM
  12. illidanx's Avatar
    My point is that it's not impossible, as these already powerful apps demonstrate... it's just that nobody is doing it (and with the small numbers of people using apps in 8.x, why would they bother?).
    Why would they do it when:
    - Modern app's performance is not yet on par with desktop app
    - Too many restrictions in modern apps (no dynarec is the biggest restriction).
    - They lose 30% revenue to Microsoft if the app is sold through store.
    04-02-2015 05:29 PM
  13. Zulfigar's Avatar
    If the day comes that Windows Apps replace Win32 apps, I guess the Windows Store will replace Steam.
    04-02-2015 05:31 PM
  14. jhoff80's Avatar
    If the day comes that Windows Apps replace Win32 apps, I guess the Windows Store will replace Steam.
    I mean, let's be real, that fear is kind of what pushed Valve to create SteamOS in the first place. That being said, I consider PC games to be their own separate thing that won't ever be fully replaced.

    Why would they do it when:
    - Modern app's performance is not yet on par with desktop app
    - Too many restrictions in modern apps (no dynarec is the biggest restriction).
    - They lose 30% revenue to Microsoft if the app is sold through store.
    Of course, the Store / Windows app development side, but I expect the APIs to continue to get better. Really though I just think it offers too many conveniences to users for them not to migrate over as more apps are put out. With regards to the last point though, they also get far more visibility through the Store too, so who knows if that'll change the equation for some.
    04-02-2015 07:25 PM
  15. TASWinFan's Avatar
    Seems like that is likely to happen and that is probably what microsoft wants to happen but it will take time for the technology to become sophisticated enough probably
    04-02-2015 09:22 PM
  16. KhawarNadeem's Avatar
    I hope it happens. WinRT apps perform a lot better, which isn't surprising since the way they're programmed is better than Win32 in terms of security, resource management, etc.

    But the functionality just isn't there yet... But I suppose they will add it as WinRT continues to grow. MS Office working in WinRT is a huge step that should not be underestimated. I really hope big names like MATLAB and Photoshop become RT down that road. That would be amazing.
    04-02-2015 09:57 PM
  17. EBUK's Avatar
    Windows Apps at the moment are very slow, especially on the desktop.

    Every app that I use both on my L735 and laptop have much worse performance on the laptop. Slow to load, slow to respond to mouse clicks / keyboard instructions. Flipboard and MSN Weather are two examples.

    A lot of work has to be done before Windows Apps are up to par with 'traditional' apps. So I don't think Windows Apps will take over any time soon.
    04-03-2015 03:11 AM
  18. runamuck83's Avatar
    Windows Apps at the moment are very slow, especially on the desktop.

    Every app that I use both on my L735 and laptop have much worse performance on the laptop. Slow to load, slow to respond to mouse clicks / keyboard instructions. Flipboard and MSN Weather are two examples.

    A lot of work has to be done before Windows Apps are up to par with 'traditional' apps. So I don't think Windows Apps will take over any time soon.
    I think with Win10, a lot of the Win8 apps will get some improvements for mouse/keyboard use. Right now a lot of the "universal" Windows Apps are all still developed around touch, so it's understandable that they may not respond well to mouse input.
    04-03-2015 07:54 AM
  19. KarmaEcrivain94's Avatar
    The problem is that the API's are really limiting, and the actual code is way more complex than win32 code. Dealing with files is a nightmare in winapps, but on the win32 platform, it's just a story of something along
    File.Copy("source", "new location").

    Not only that, but you are really limited interface wise. You're stuck on one frame, and can't have various Windows that belong to the same process open at the same time.

    Basically, unless winApps API's evolve,
    WinApps=really casual Apps
    Win32=Video/photo editing, DAWs, specialized software, CADs, etc...
    EBUK likes this.
    04-03-2015 05:00 PM
  20. jhoff80's Avatar
    Not only that, but you are really limited interface wise. You're stuck on one frame, and can't have various Windows that belong to the same process open at the same time.
    ​Not true since 8.1 came out. Roku's app is an example of this. The main app shows apps installed on the Roku, and another window is spawned for the actual remote function.

    Powerpoint Preview is another great example in Windows 10, as it'll open a second window for Presenter View.

    Edit: Rather than giving examples:
    https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/xaml/dn434070.aspx
    Last edited by jhoff80; 04-03-2015 at 08:39 PM.
    04-03-2015 08:27 PM
  21. TheLumaniac's Avatar
    The problem is that the API's are really limiting, and the actual code is way more complex than win32 code. Dealing with files is a nightmare in winapps, but on the win32 platform, it's just a story of something along
    File.Copy("source", "new location").

    Not only that, but you are really limited interface wise. You're stuck on one frame, and can't have various Windows that belong to the same process open at the same time.

    Basically, unless winApps API's evolve,
    WinApps=really casual Apps
    Win32=Video/photo editing, DAWs, specialized software, CADs, etc...
    Well, you are right, Windows apps are still somewhat limited in what they can do, they are constantly getting better.
    Once Windows 10 comes out (and if it becomes a success) more developers will become willing to make Windows apps, which will of course lead to better APIs, which means better apps. It's just a matter of time before they become as good as Win32 programs.
    (I'm not saying that it's going to happen in the next few months, but they are getting better)
    04-04-2015 09:23 AM
  22. Mainer82's Avatar
    I hope not.
    04-04-2015 06:49 PM
  23. Legoboyii's Avatar
    I hope not.
    It'll be a few years but that's the direction, replace programs with apps sooner or later they'll be just as if not more powerful than legacy desktop programs. That's the way Microsoft is seeing it anyway. Like it or not it prevents piracy of paid programs. At least on the Windows Store. :P
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    04-04-2015 06:55 PM
  24. KarmaEcrivain94's Avatar
    It'll be a few years but that's the direction, replace programs with apps sooner or later they'll be just as if not more powerful than legacy desktop programs. That's the way Microsoft is seeing it anyway. Like it or not it prevents piracy of paid programs. At least on the Windows Store. :P
    We will have to wait a long time before they are more powerful. Win32 Apps can litteraly do whatever they want right now.
    04-05-2015 03:29 AM
  25. Sebastianx's Avatar
    We will have to wait a long time before they are more powerful. Win32 Apps can litteraly do whatever they want right now.
    Definitely. I think the answer is never Win32 apps has a broad range of possibilities while Windows Apps itself depends on the limitations set by the SDK.
    04-05-2015 09:00 AM
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