08-20-2017 10:20 PM
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  1. craige1's Avatar
    Updated: 26-Mar-17
    • Outlook 2016 still doesn't support 2-step auth natively for outlook.com/Microsoft accounts, after 3 office versions.
    • There is still no outlook task list syncing in windows 10, even tho its a primary feature of office and given as training advice by Microsoft to use it for the last 10 years and everything up to windows 8 had it.
    • Windows 10 doesn't support account syncing of settings on normal workplace domains. Windows 8 supported this fine.
    • UWP apps still require a store to deploy normally, even after Microsoft insisted the uwp platform isn't tied to the store. E.g You cant have a community site with list of uwps that can be downloaded directly and install it, without having to change system settings. A developer cant even just give people an app to install without the users having to change these system settings. UWP is never going to be a replacement for win32 while it still has this walled garden.
    • Cortanas internet reliance, Cortana is the new "search" and "voice recognition" in windows 10, and nearly all the tasks that should not require an internet connection to perform, fail when there is a bad/no internet.
    • Skype preview still isn't a share target after a year (and is now released). The primary ms chat service should be one of the primary use cases for sharing.
    • Edge in general. Edge still crashes like mad, doesn't support things in websites that firefox/chrome does, doesn't have basic features like a half decent favourites manager.
    • Cortana/bing region feature locks. Cortana/bing have many features that a restricted by location. This is after ms said that Cortana and bing have had a lot of work done on them to not have to lock features to regions. The reasons given for region locking features are usually "to make sure they are up to quality", which goes against their own
      "fail-fast" development philosophy, what they said before, and the insider program in general.
    • Not having libraries as the default pictures/music/videos etc locations. The current setup is like the old xp "my pictures", where win7 gave a much needed overhaul of the system by allowing a system that was human and program understandable, supported multiple folders but with visual separation, allowed a default save location to be change easily, new locations could be added easily, automatically index the other folder locations for search, etc. The windows 10 system is like a 10 year step back in time. Libraries don't have any disadvantages compared to the old/current system, and even people who don't know anything about libraries wont be confused about them,
    • Drop in quality of touch device support from windows 8.
    • No swipe keyboard support on windows 10 desktop.
    • The confusion that having both a desktop and start tiles brings. Start tiles are essentially just desktop icons with an updating icon. So what is the expected use case of having both? When should I be making a start tile, and when should I be making a desktop shortcut? Why not just replace desktop icons with the tiles?
    • No ability to tell windows what locations to include in search. E.g. You cant create a folder on a 2nd hard drive and have windows search that folder. The normal search index locations arnt respected by Cortana.
    Pacific16, muvig, aximtreo and 2 others like this.
    03-26-2017 04:56 AM
  2. TechFreak1's Avatar
    Updated: 26-Mar-17
    • Outlook 2016 still doesn't support 2-step auth natively for outlook.com/Microsoft accounts, after 3 office versions.
    • There is still no outlook task list syncing in windows 10, even tho its a primary feature of office and given as training advice by Microsoft to use it for the last 10 years and everything up to windows 8 had it.
    • Windows 10 doesn't support account syncing of settings on normal workplace domains. Windows 8 supported this fine.
    • UWP apps still require a store to deploy normally, even after Microsoft insisted the uwp platform isn't tied to the store. E.g You cant have a community site with list of uwps that can be downloaded directly and install it, without having to change system settings. A developer cant even just give people an app to install without the users having to change these system settings. UWP is never going to be a replacement for win32 while it still has this walled garden.
    • Cortanas internet reliance, Cortana is the new "search" and "voice recognition" in windows 10, and nearly all the tasks that should not require an internet connection to perform, fail when there is a bad/no internet.
    • Skype preview still isn't a share target after a year (and is now released). The primary ms chat service should be one of the primary use cases for sharing.
    • Edge in general. Edge still crashes like mad, doesn't support things in websites that firefox/chrome does, doesn't have basic features like a half decent favourites manager.
    • Cortana/bing region feature locks. Cortana/bing have many features that a restricted by location. This is after ms said that Cortana and bing have had a lot of work done on them to not have to lock features to regions. The reasons given for region locking features are usually "to make sure they are up to quality", which goes against their own
      "fail-fast" development philosophy, what they said before, and the insider program in general.
    • Not having libraries as the default pictures/music/videos etc locations. The current setup is like the old xp "my pictures", where win7 gave a much needed overhaul of the system by allowing a system that was human and program understandable, supported multiple folders but with visual separation, allowed a default save location to be change easily, new locations could be added easily, automatically index the other folder locations for search, etc. The windows 10 system is like a 10 year step back in time. Libraries don't have any disadvantages compared to the old/current system, and even people who don't know anything about libraries wont be confused about them,
    • Drop in quality of touch device support from windows 8.
    • No swipe keyboard support on windows 10 desktop.
    • The confusion that having both a desktop and start tiles brings. Start tiles are essentially just desktop icons with an updating icon. So what is the expected use case of having both? When should I be making a start tile, and when should I be making a desktop shortcut? Why not just replace desktop icons with the tiles?
    • No ability to tell windows what locations to include in search. E.g. You cant create a folder on a 2nd hard drive and have windows search that folder. The normal search index locations arnt respected by Cortana.


    1) I use 2 Factor authentication with outlook.com and outlook 2016 - over a dozen accounts - works fine.

    2) Granted there is no tasks within the outlook mobile app but the tasks sync fine between my PC and Laptop, perhaps check your settings?

    3) This I can't confirm as I am not connected to a domain.

    4) That is a security measure, this is to prevent malicious code being installed through dubious UWP apps. After decades of Win32 applications being injected with rootkits, spyware, malware I would say this the correct approach to ensure the UWP platform remains secure. As after all it doesn't only affect desktop PC's, it affects hololens, xbox, windows mobile and any other derivative that relies on the UWP platform.

    5) I understand where you are coming from, what Cortana does is a combined search doing a local and internet search. Sure, they could add an option to do local search only.

    6) Skype... yes it needs alot of work still... there is no denying that...

    7) You need to install the latest cumulative Edge updates or install the cumulative build updates, as it's way better than then the initial preview days. It does however have a long way to catch up to firefox or chrome interms of extensions for example.

    8) I agree, this does go back to Windows Phone 8 also as the US region had handy bing features other key markets did not.

    9) Okay, that I would say is a total farce as every install I have seen, repaired and done these have been the default libraries. You can simply cut and paste these an the o/s will auto direct in the registry (just like windows 7). You can also have your own directories as your default libraries.

    10) That is to be expected, as more and more devices run windows 10 and the push on OEMs to release 10 devices not W8.

    11) That is down to the user and user training if you are running 10 in a enterprise environment. You can unpin the tiles or disable them in group policy all together. The best way to approach this is to class the live tiles as "live shortcuts". Simple.

    Once they become aware that they can unpin these and place the old static icons on the start menu should they wish or have a mixture then all confusion is avoided. Not to mention you pin either tiles or the old static icons on the taskbar.

    Background info: By default I pin a mixture on the start menu and taskbar - that makes people aware they can have both and I explain they can have both.

    12)Do you have "allow files in this folder to have contents indexed in addition to file properties" option disabled via group policy or via IT policy?
    That is the only way I can think of - in regards to files/folders in other directories not appearing in Cortana's search.

    As I have never had that issue and no one I know has that issue as it's a pretty big one to let slide - as it's a pretty basic and commonly used function.
    Last edited by TechFreak1; 03-26-2017 at 05:59 AM. Reason: Spelling, added more info
    03-26-2017 05:48 AM
  3. TgeekB's Avatar
    Why are you telling us? ������

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    Last edited by RumoredNow; 03-26-2017 at 09:43 AM. Reason: lengthy quote not needed
    03-26-2017 07:36 AM
  4. craige1's Avatar
    1) I use 2 Factor authentication with outlook.com and outlook 2016 - over a dozen accounts - works fine.

    2) Granted there is no tasks within the outlook mobile app but the tasks sync fine between my PC and Laptop, perhaps check your settings?

    3) This I can't confirm as I am not connected to a domain.

    4) That is a security measure, this is to prevent malicious code being installed through dubious UWP apps. After decades of Win32 applications being injected with rootkits, spyware, malware I would say this the correct approach to ensure the UWP platform remains secure. As after all it doesn't only affect desktop PC's, it affects hololens, xbox, windows mobile and any other derivative that relies on the UWP platform.

    5) I understand where you are coming from, what Cortana does is a combined search doing a local and internet search. Sure, they could add an option to do local search only.

    6) Skype... yes it needs alot of work still... there is no denying that...

    7) You need to install the latest cumulative Edge updates or install the cumulative build updates, as it's way better than then the initial preview days. It does however have a long way to catch up to firefox or chrome interms of extensions for example.

    8) I agree, this does go back to Windows Phone 8 also as the US region had handy bing features other key markets did not.

    9) Okay, that I would say is a total farce as every install I have seen, repaired and done these have been the default libraries. You can simply cut and paste these an the o/s will auto direct in the registry (just like windows 7). You can also have your own directories as your default libraries.

    10) That is to be expected, as more and more devices run windows 10 and the push on OEMs to release 10 devices not W8.

    11) That is down to the user and user training if you are running 10 in a enterprise environment. You can unpin the tiles or disable them in group policy all together. The best way to approach this is to class the live tiles as "live shortcuts". Simple.

    Once they become aware that they can unpin these and place the old static icons on the start menu should they wish or have a mixture then all confusion is avoided. Not to mention you pin either tiles or the old static icons on the taskbar.

    Background info: By default I pin a mixture on the start menu and taskbar - that makes people aware they can have both and I explain they can have both.

    12)Do you have "allow files in this folder to have contents indexed in addition to file properties" option disabled via group policy or via IT policy?
    That is the only way I can think of - in regards to files/folders in other directories not appearing in Cortana's search.

    As I have never had that issue and no one I know has that issue as it's a pretty big one to let slide - as it's a pretty basic and commonly used function.
    Hi TechFreak,
    Thanks for the detailed reply. It does help to know other people experiences with these issues. My experience with these issues comes as a Microsoft Certified Professional, and as a ICT manager looking after multiple schools.

    I'll write a little more about some of the points. A lot of these will be counter points, but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate the time taken to write your experiences.

    1.
    This has never worked ever :(. Enabling 2-step verification on your Microsoft account, then trying to add your outlook.com email address to outlook 2016 results in the password box continually re-prompting for the correct password. Typing in an "app password" works. It doesn't matter if you are using office 2010,2013,2016, office 365 home. This does work with office 365 for business, that comes with a admin control panel to choose the support. A normal user with just a normal outlook.com email and office 365, will run into this issue. Current advice from MS on this problem is to see the guides on using app passwords :S. I can provide video of this.

    2. The mobile support is the achilles heel of this. MS advice on using outlook (which according to them, isn't an email program but a productivity program), and especially when maintaining a zero-inbox, is to turn all task related email straight into outlook task (via drag drop, copy, etc), so that the email get removed. The task list is a crucial part of your agenda for the day, and to not have it mobile accessible is a major problem.

    4. The major problem of this is, it means MS dictates, for everyone, every program that can run on a pc. This should never be the case. The other point of this is that, again, its trusting ms to be the gatekeeper of what is safe or not, which is not a great solution. As a user or company, if I want to trust symantec for my antivirus, then I should be allowed to. Another major point is that Microsoft already has app identify built into the win32 system that isn't tied to Microsoft itself, that's what app certificates are. We already live in a world with app identity, and antivirus. The store itself doesn't solve any of these problems, in any way. The UWP platform helps with security, simply because it is sandboxed, but this isn't an advantage of the store, and shouldn't be used as an argument for tying UWP to the windows store.

    7. I was referring to the current insider fast ring builds. Its still pretty bad. I cant recommend it for anyone who needs an kind of reliability.

    9. This is the experience. Windows 10, anniversary, build 15058, either fresh or upgraded. The default pinned videos, pictures, etc point to their equivalent folder under the user folder directly, not the library. Same with the folders under "this pc". To even show libraries you need to right click and enable the "show libraries" option. The file selection dialog used by programs shows the my pc, or the file quick actions folders, which again, don't go to the libraries. I can provide a video of this if needed.

    11. The need for training shouldnt be required if its not needed, this is a setback to adoption, and a cause for complaints. When you deal with 10's of thousands of users, that extra step becomes a major problem, with something as critical as starting programs. The answer to "where is the shortcut to start x" should not be "sometimes here, and sometimes somewhere else". It may seem like a little issue, but it becomes a big issue when your dealling with users who just dont care about new os versions, and don't want to be trained to simply do their job, that they could of done perfectly fine before. As I pointed out earlier, desktop shortcuts and start menu tiles serve the same purpose, there's no good reason to have both. Similar to arguments for the settings app and the control panel.

    12. Cortana just doesn't use the indexing options list of folders. Doesn't matter if you force the indexer to run again. I can provide video of this.
    xandros9 likes this.
    03-26-2017 07:49 AM
  5. craige1's Avatar
    Why are you telling us?

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    Mainly to have a discussion about them. See if other people have them, if there are known plans to fix them etc.
    TgeekB and Pacific16 like this.
    03-26-2017 08:21 AM
  6. TgeekB's Avatar
    Mainly to have a discussion about them. See if other people have them, if there are known plans to fix them etc.
    Got ya.
    Windows mobile is in a continual state of improvement and change. Are you part of the Insider program? It's a good way to make your opinions known to MS and hopefully drive improvements.

    Sent from my Alcatel Idol 4S
    craige1 likes this.
    03-26-2017 09:54 AM
  7. craige1's Avatar
    Got ya.
    Windows mobile is in a continual state of improvement and change. Are you part of the Insider program? It's a good way to make your opinions known to MS and hopefully drive improvements.

    Sent from my Alcatel Idol 4S
    Yeah, I'm all on board with the insider programs. At work, we have a good number of machines running on different rings. Personally I've also got machines running the windows insider fast ring, slow ring, on desktop and mobile, the xbox insider program and the office insider program.

    The main reason I've called the problems I listed "stupid" is mainly because all of these have been reported, usually quite heavily, on the ms support forums, uservoice, feedback app, and personally with ms corporate support as part of our vl, yet havnt been dealt with for years; even when it goes against their own advice. The thing that worries me is that it points to some core issue with current ms development, since ether:
    1. They arnt actually listening to user feedback. (selectively paying attention to feedback)
    2. Refuse to act on these issues (Have heard the feedback from users but are choosing to ignore them)
    3. Are unable to act on these issues. (Have heard the feedback but don't have the resources to deal with them)
    4. Are indecisive about these issues. (Have heard the feedback but are unable to choose a solution to them)

    It wouldnt be much of an issue if they were only around for a month, or were "bugs". But when you start talking years, it goes well beyond answers like, they havnt improved that bit yet.

    A lot of these problems have carry on effects that should worry ms. For instance, ms have told corporations and training partners for years that zero-inbox is a good thing, and that we should be using outlook task lists, with exchange syncing to make offices more productive. Any organisation that has done even basic office productivity training has had training on email management, and this is the advice given for years. When you had all your users trained in this way, giving your managers/support staff mobile devices, or even recommending how to use their personal device for work (which again, ms wants people to work this way), then you cant use/recommend windows mobile devices. When task lists are a core component of a ms office environment, it means ios and android make much better business devices, since they do actually support exchange tasks. So in other words, windows mobile make pretty bad business phones,,, and unfortunately we also know they make pretty bad general consumer phones.
    muvig likes this.
    03-26-2017 02:13 PM
  8. Chintan Gohel's Avatar
    I was about to be depressed by all the problems stated and then I realised you're running insider fast - that makes it less 'ouch' like feeling
    FAHMI BASSEM likes this.
    03-26-2017 02:25 PM
  9. craige1's Avatar
    I was about to be depressed by all the problems stated and then I realised you're running insider fast - that makes it less 'ouch' like feeling
    These problems are old, and are on windows release, slow and fast. These arnt current "bugs" in the latest build (of which my list would be MUCH longer), but long term problems.
    03-26-2017 02:29 PM
  10. Chemy JMHT's Avatar
    I still hate the fact the computer will restart at a time after an update and it's simply out of control (at least for me) no matter what.

    Also I don't want the tablet look of everything, the embedded apps are nothing for Desktop, the Mail app is totally dependent of Internet.

    As you previous said, a lot of thing are too online, making hard to enjoy without Internet or even when the speed is pretty slow.
    craige1 likes this.
    03-26-2017 02:45 PM
  11. Steve Thackery's Avatar
    Once they become aware that they can ...... place the old static icons on the start menu should they wish........
    Actually, there is a fundamental shortcoming with this. In W7, icons on the desktop or in the Start menu had their title in text beneath them.

    For some bizarre reason, W10 removes the text when a Start menu tile is made "Small" (i.e. the same size as the icon would be). This is true of Modern and Win32 apps/programs.

    As a desktop user I don't want live tiles anywhere - including not on my Start menu. But if I make my Start menu tiles icon-sized they lose their text.

    It's even more bizarre when you realise that the "All programs" section of the Start menu *does* have text labels.

    Don't get me wrong: I like live tiles on my Windows phone and my Windows tablet, but for my dual-screen workstation I want icons. It's stupid of Microsoft to remove such a basic feature.
    craige1 likes this.
    03-26-2017 03:19 PM
  12. faisalbaba's Avatar
    Performance of windows mobile 10 is not good as compared to windows phone 8
    muvig and craige1 like this.
    03-27-2017 10:15 AM
  13. Dirtrot's Avatar
    Ya honestly im gonna sound like a dead horse but its the apps. I love the ui and I have web sites pinned to make up for the missing apps but theres just too many missing. On my driod Ive got banking apps remote apps for my sony tv when the darn kids lose the remote. The game and vr selections are so much bigger I go back and forth but in the end apps are whats keeping me from useing my alcatel 4s well that and the crappy camera on the 4s. If there was a windows phone with a driod emulator or a phone that duel boots Id buy it tomorrow. Its rare i use a desktop anymore so I cant give a responce on what Id change desktop wize.
    03-27-2017 10:16 AM
  14. JJ Kelley's Avatar
    Windows 10 has issues with window locations after resume with some monitors. They'll get rearranged in weird ways. I wish I could just turn off auto-rearranging of windows when a monitor "disconnects" since the monitors on my desktop PC are NEVER actually disconnected or move.
    craige1 likes this.
    03-27-2017 10:34 AM
  15. kNight_dn's Avatar
    While I appreciate the progress MS has made with its ever evolving OS, I'm also frustrated with the lack of app support on Windows 10 Mobile.

    I switched up from L930 to an L950XL but now am considering switching over to Android because app support seems to be diminishing on a daily basis.
    craige1 likes this.
    03-27-2017 10:36 AM
  16. PFSP's Avatar
    Edge:
    - BACKSPACE - for the sake of all things holy, please turn off or at least allow the user to turn off the navigate one page back with the backspace key. I can't tell you how many edits I have lost with that "feature" seriously who would want to use an edit key to perform navigation....
    - No VPN support - cannot use Edge while tunneled into work VPN.
    - Generally buggy, crashes, spell check has weird errors basically Edge is a beta product at this point.

    Cortana:
    - Why can't she work in local mode? do I need internet connectivity for her to look up one of my contacts?
    - Bluetooth text reader has some bugs, especially if you get two texts at approximately the same time, they read over each other and horks the process. Frustrating when in a car.
    Last edited by PFSP; 03-27-2017 at 03:15 PM.
    hamidparham, muvig and craige1 like this.
    03-27-2017 10:38 AM
  17. Luis Carlos Ruiz Paternina's Avatar
    I really hate Memory Management. For apps that are running in the background like whatsapp once I go to the start screen and then immediately return to the app it takes around 6 seconds to resume the app. it's just annoying even with a 1GB of ram that is unacceptable. You can have only 1 app running it will take time to resume if you go to the start screen by tapping the windows button and go back to the app. Microsoft should stop working on new features and start focusing efforts in fixing the awful performance. Windows phone 8.1 has a glorious memory performance when compared to this thing. Other than that the OS is magically beautiful.
    craige1 likes this.
    03-27-2017 10:56 AM
  18. DLong4's Avatar
    One of my gripes about Windows 10 is the riddle of the File Explorer. It used to be pretty straightforward, but the #10 iteration presents "Quick Access/Documents", "This PC/Documents", "[username]/Documents", "Libraries/Documents". When you place a document into the default "This PC/Documents" it doesn't show up in the other folders. Likewise with Pictures, etc. MS needs to revamp this feature to make it easier to use.
    craige1 likes this.
    03-27-2017 11:02 AM
  19. TheMelonOfWater's Avatar
    Windows 10 does not have OneDrive placeholders.

    You have little to no control over Windows Updates.

    You get automatically updated to each new version of Windows 10. Each new version of Windows 10 is an entirely new version of Windows, and like every new version of Windows, it can break old programs.

    Even if you find a way to not update to the newest version of Windows 10, each version of only has an 18 month support cycle (might be a little longer) meaning that you MUST update to all new versions of Windows 10 to stay secure, even if the update breaks your old programs.
    craige1 likes this.
    03-27-2017 11:05 AM
  20. Stephen Michaels's Avatar
    1) No groups in Outlook Mail and People.
    2) Edge still crashes too much especially in Multimedia sites, e.g., YouTube.
    3) Cortana does rely on Internet unnecessarily. She cannot send a text for me when off WiFi although I have cell service, for example. Dumb.
    4) Agree that Windows Feedback is a ruse for the most part. They latch onto what they like; ignore the rest.
    5) Need to get rid of Control Panel and put everything in settings.
    6) It's past time to start getting major apps into Windows 10 UWP. Need to push Windows Phone for high end consumers as well as business.
    craige1 likes this.
    03-27-2017 11:07 AM
  21. hamidparham's Avatar
    So many inconsistencies with the design! Take title bars for example: the calculator app is always white/black; the people app has its own thing going on; the photos app turns black when viewing photos, no matter what color mode you select; the newly updated apps such as Movies & TV and Groove, as well as some others like Alarms which have their own style of title bars, do not obey the accent color, and so on. And this is just the title bars. Long enough has passed for the OS to decide these tiny things and start to at least look mature even if it may not act so.
    Last edited by hamidparham; 03-27-2017 at 01:27 PM.
    craige1 likes this.
    03-27-2017 11:11 AM
  22. anon(1762522)'s Avatar
    I'd like to see a more powerful task feature in Outlook. That might get me to use it. I have paid for Office but use Google apps and Todoist as "Office" (Wunderlist is too simple).

    My main complaint with Windows 10 is that Win10 apps, in my opinion, are visually unappealing. More important, they are slower to open than Web apps. As a result, I do not use any Win10 apps at all, since they slow down my workflow. I'm mostly Google-centric because Chrome and Google apps provide fast, complete services.

    Another feature I'd like to see is more high-quality Themes added to the default installation, altho I guess that would take up HD space too. A nice lock screen with easy-to-configure mini apps would be good.

    Having said all that, I am a fan of Win 10. I switched a few years ago to Win 7, which I really liked, after years of working on Macs. Win 8 I loathed (I won't get into that). But Win 10 is basically good enough, and I prefer it to OS X. Would just like to see some better-looking, faster native apps.
    craige1 likes this.
    03-27-2017 11:20 AM
  23. Narathan's Avatar
    The OS still feels so... slow, at times. It really lowers the user experience. I got a €130,- Xiaomi phone with a Snapdragon 620 in it and the OS feels really snappy. My HP Elite x3 takes 3-6 seconds to send a picture through WhatsApp. Yes, its because the app is based off of an older achitecture but how is it possible that a Snapdragon 820, with 4 GB's of ram has so much trouble running these older apps smoothly?

    Groove music, when it works is amazing. But adding new songs through the pc requires a sync/update of Groove, which doesn't always happens. Sometimes I need to plug the phone to a power socket and pray it syncs. Other times I need to remove the SD card, open up Groove and watch the list go empty (takes 2-4 minutes). Then reboot, re-insert the SD card and hope it syncs.

    When it comes to the Desktop experience, I'm mostly content. There's some UI hiccups here and there but as a consumer, I'm pretty content with it.

    I would also like to see Cortana having some more granual control. I mean she's not supported over here in the Netherlands but why aren't I able to use basic stuff like a quick overview of the weather, my own RSS feeds, agenda events etc? Feels like they are missing a lot of chances. And pray tell, why can't I use Quiet Hours without Cortana?
    craige1 likes this.
    03-27-2017 11:22 AM
  24. hamidparham's Avatar
    Mobile, mobile, mobile!
    aximtreo and craige1 like this.
    03-27-2017 11:32 AM
  25. Pradeep Kumar Raghavendran's Avatar
    Apps. For e.g. Uber, YouTube, Google Services. Like how MS has provided its services like Office, One Drive etc irrespective of platform, all should do it for Windows as well. That would be a fair competition.
    craige1 likes this.
    03-27-2017 11:33 AM
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