1. BajanSaint69's Avatar
    What I suspect is coming next.... (bear with me this might be a bit long)

    I'm going to engage in some speculation here but what do we know....

    1. MS is rewriting the Windows OS to run on many form factors (Andromeda)
    2. MS is also working to have Windows run on ARM
    3. The role of the Surface Brand is NOT to make money but to make hero devices that show what's possible.
    4. Panos Panay is fond of saying that Surface's role is to "create new categories"
    5. Satya Nadella has more than once made reference to an upcoming "ultimate mobile device" (note he did NOT say "phone")
    6. No software company can survive long term without a mobile strategy.

    With all of the above it was clear that Windows Mobile was a dead OS walking. I would say the fact that they are now publicly saying so is a potential indicator that Andromeda is almost ready for showtime. It couldn't get the apps/developers/numbers. I think it's a kick__ OS but economics are reality.

    But....

    If you have Andromeda, you don't need a separate Mobile OS. So why waste time on it.

    If you have a PC that's running Windows 10 on ARM and is connected to the LTE cell network, how difficult is it to add phone capabilities to it?

    Surface didn't get traction until it was positioned as the "laptop that can replace your tablet". It's main selling point is that you can use real software on it and not Apps. Remember all the people who sneered at the idea of a 2 in 1?

    I think what we are going to see is more "Pocket PC" than Surface Phone. Once again a 2 in 1 type of device but on a different scale. Something with a small form factor, that can run Windows, can be linked to bigger displays via Continuum which connects to the LTE network and (BTW) can also function as a phone. The computer than can replace your phone. A small enough device that people will leave their phones at home.

    I suspect when this happens you will see similar devices released by OEM partners much like how they did with AR/VR. If they can do that then all of a sudden the IOS/Android duopoly looks vulnerable.
    10-11-2017 10:22 AM
  2. RumoredNow's Avatar
    What's next?

    About 1052 threads asking this question on Windows Central.

    10-11-2017 10:44 AM
  3. Scienceguy Labs's Avatar
    What's next for me is a can of tuna and some crackers. 👍
    10-11-2017 11:10 AM
  4. BajanSaint69's Avatar
    Yeah but the Windows Phone users are all losing their collective s#*t over the news about the "demise" of Mobile.... anyone who is paying attention would realise that it doesn't mean the end of Windows on a mobile platform.
    DOGC_Kyle and Player Piano like this.
    10-11-2017 02:36 PM
  5. badcat's Avatar
    But if isn't a phone what is it then? I'm not going to carry a tablet with phone capabilities around with me. A convenient form factor has to be part of the equation. Form factor is why cell phones caught on the way they have. Early models were huge and clunky and lived in your car. Now everyone is carrying one around. I just don't see many people opting to drag a tablet around with them all day.
    TgeekB, Joe920, libra89 and 1 others like this.
    10-11-2017 03:00 PM
  6. TgeekB's Avatar
    But if isn't a phone what is it then? I'm not going to carry a tablet with phone capabilities around with me. A convenient form factor has to be part of the equation. Form factor is why cell phones caught on the way they have. Early models were huge and clunky and lived in your car. Now everyone is carrying one around. I just don't see many people opting to drag a tablet around with them all day.
    Exactly.
    For some enterprise applications it will be fine but I can’t see the average consumer going for it.
    I doubt it’s their intent to capture the consumer market anyway.
    10-11-2017 04:02 PM
  7. Scienceguy Labs's Avatar
    Annnnnd a new mobile device will not automatically solve the dreaded app gap.
    10-11-2017 06:33 PM
  8. change28's Avatar
    Nothing to worry about!

    MS will find new ways to screw up!
    theefman and werner6769 like this.
    10-11-2017 09:02 PM
  9. theefman's Avatar
    Doesn't matter what Microsoft writes, any critical thinking will tell you Windows is best used in a desktop scenario, anything smaller is basically a tablet or phone and in both of those usage scenarios Windows is much less effective and doesn't offer anything current phones and tablets don't already offer.

    Sent from mTalk
    badcat likes this.
    10-11-2017 10:58 PM
  10. DOGC_Kyle's Avatar
    But if isn't a phone what is it then? I'm not going to carry a tablet with phone capabilities around with me. A convenient form factor has to be part of the equation. Form factor is why cell phones caught on the way they have. Early models were huge and clunky and lived in your car. Now everyone is carrying one around. I just don't see many people opting to drag a tablet around with them all day.
    Phones are getting bigger, and computers are getting thinner. A 5-6" full-powered device is totally possible. It doesn't need to be bigger than the Elite x3 to have more powerful hardware.
    A foldable device makes even more sense, if they can do it elegantly. Big screen when you need it, folds in half to fit in your pocket.


    Annnnnd a new mobile device will not automatically solve the dreaded app gap.
    If performance with their Win32 on ARM tech is good, you could run any DOS, Windows, Linux, or Android app.


    Doesn't matter what Microsoft writes, any critical thinking will tell you Windows is best used in a desktop scenario, anything smaller is basically a tablet or phone and in both of those usage scenarios Windows is much less effective and doesn't offer anything current phones and tablets don't already offer.
    Simple solution, make Windows effective on those devices.
    They got Xbox UI to make it work on large screens, Windows desktop for PCs, HoloShell for MR/VR headsets, Tablet Mode for tablets. Phone mode for phones?
    10-12-2017 04:03 PM
  11. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    The ability to run Win32 apps on a phone is not a solution, because Win32 apps are designed for large displays and mouse navigation (with tiny buttons and scroll bars that aren't touch-friendly). Touch-friendly apps need to be built from scratch to be touch-friendly. Win32 apps are also not power-optimized, because there is no reason for them to be. Power usage is a big consideration with the way mobile apps work.

    Surface is a success because it is designed to be used as a touch-screen-capable LAPTOP most of the time - which is why they come with a keyboard/touchpad - and used as a standalone tablet only rarely, and mostly only for content consumption. Without the hardware keyboard/touchpad, few would be interested in it.

    But no one wants to carry a keyboard/touchpad for their phone. Phones need a dedicated, touch-focused OS that runs touch-optimized apps.
    10-12-2017 04:17 PM
  12. DOGC_Kyle's Avatar
    The ability to run Win32 apps on a phone is not a solution
    Android apps can run on Win32. I believe Chrome on Windows can run Android apps (or they were working on it?)

    Now this solution is more dependent on Google than Microsoft, but I could totally see them working together, it IS a win for both of them. Google gets the customers in their store, and Microsoft keeps people on Windows. Especially when you consider Microsoft now has a reputation for making high-quality Android apps.
    Now that's a pretty big step, and it's not exactly likely, but would be excellent for everyone, if it did become an official solution.
    10-12-2017 04:33 PM
  13. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Google will not license access to Google Play for mobile use unless that device runs EXCLUSIVELY Android - which is why you don't see official access on other platforms.

    And if you think people are going to stay on WinPhone to emulate Android to run Android apps less-well than an Android device, you're crazy. LOL.
    Laura Knotek and Guytronic like this.
    10-12-2017 05:34 PM
  14. DOGC_Kyle's Avatar
    Well, we already know for certain that Android apps can run on Windows devices. That much is guaranteed.

    However, it's not an official solution, and requires installing Chrome (it doesn't work out-of-the-box), so Microsoft couldn't really advertise it as a feature.
    At the same time, Google wants desktop users to use Android apps. They have the mobile market, but they want in on the desktop market. That's the whole reason Chrome OS exists. And why they're bring Android apps to Chrome.
    If Microsoft DID ask, do you really think Google would say no to their storefront being on every single new PC? This is just my own speculation, but it DOES make sense.


    People aren't "staying on Windows phone", they're staying on Windows desktop. Can any Android phones run Windows apps? Clearly, Windows apps are still popular, otherwise PC sales would be way lower than phone sales. Is a device that runs both classes of app not feasible?


    No one's catering to Windows phone fans anymore - the whole idea of Andromeda/one OS is to save desktop, not mobile.
    Microsoft needs a mobile strategy, as the OP said, "No software company can survive long term without a mobile strategy" - not because phones are popular, but because they're becoming as capable and omnipresent as Windows computers. Windows isn't threatened yet, but they need to make sure they don't lose customers to Google and Apple.
    aximtreo and Guytronic like this.
    10-12-2017 09:42 PM
  15. BajanSaint69's Avatar
    App gap becomes irrelevant if it runs desktop software. Think Surface vs. Ipad Pro
    10-13-2017 10:28 AM
  16. BajanSaint69's Avatar
    App Gap is irrelevant if it runs desktop software. Think Surface Pro vs. Ipad Pro.
    10-13-2017 10:30 AM
  17. BajanSaint69's Avatar
    The idea of a foldable display is interesting in that it gives a tablet sized screen on a "theoretically" phone sized device. I don't think whatever emerges will be marketed as a phone. Much like the same way that the Surface targeted laptops. Whatever comes I suspect it will be a new category that will allow people to carry fewer devices.
    10-13-2017 10:36 AM
  18. BajanSaint69's Avatar
    The ability to run Win32 apps on a phone is not a solution
    Might be, if you don't consider it to be a phone first.
    10-13-2017 10:41 AM
  19. BajanSaint69's Avatar
    The ability to run Win32 apps on a phone is not a solution
    Might be, if you don't consider it to be a phone first.
    10-13-2017 10:41 AM
  20. AndyCalling's Avatar
    Please note that 'Ultimate mobile device' is a phrase that is commonly misunderstood here. The word ultimate is often misunderstood due to marketing misuse (and MS don't do marketing, so you know they don't use marketing speak). It does mot mean 'best'. In reality it means 'final'. MS did live up to the often missed quote and have already created their ultimate, or final, mobile device. It was a phone. It was called the Lumia 950XL.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    10-13-2017 12:09 PM
  21. DOGC_Kyle's Avatar
    Please note that 'Ultimate mobile device' is a phrase that is commonly misunderstood here. The word ultimate is often misunderstood due to marketing misuse (and MS don't do marketing, so you know they don't use marketing speak). It does mot mean 'best'. In reality it means 'final'. MS did live up to the often missed quote and have already created their ultimate, or final, mobile device. It was a phone. It was called the Lumia 950XL.
    The quote was referring to after the Lumias, if I remember correctly. The 950/950XL was "for the fans", and the Elite x3 was "for enterprise". The mention of the "ultimate mobile device" was a third device that has since never been mentioned or released.

    Would have to look it up to check, but I remember the mention of three devices (and we only got two).

    EDIT: Yep, it was a full year after the Lumia 950 launched. The "ultimate mobile device" is obviously not a device we've seen, because Microsoft has not launched any hardware since then besides the Surface Laptop and Xbox One X. https://www.techspot.com/news/67175-...ace-phone.html
    I was mistaken about the three devices though, the mention of "ultimate mobile device" was way after that.
    10-13-2017 01:53 PM
  22. BajanSaint69's Avatar
    The phrase was dropped by Nadella in a particularly opaque comment on the future of Windows Mobile... It could mean anything from a HoloLens to a phone to a tricorder ...

    Clearly there's a plan but they are playing their cards very close to their chests
    10-13-2017 07:16 PM
  23. Prometheus2021's Avatar
    I remember reading way back that MS had patented or was in the works of patenting a foldable screen, or device, if this is the case maybe this is the next thing to come out of Mobile Computing. A foldable device capable of converting to a larger laptop like or tablet device, mix in continuum, with its capabilities to connect to other peripherals like a bigger screen, a keyboard and a mouse and you got yourself a mobile computer. Maybe they might even offer bundles with a laptop dock like the Elite X3 (BTW that is one sexy device, that I still want to buy). We could have foldable cases that double as keyboards. The technology IS out there, we've seen bendable screens being developed. Windows on ARM is now a thing, even continuum like copycats are being developed. The parts are there it is just a matter of getting it done. I feel this is the next logical step if MS wants to get into the mobile market again, after killing off Windows Mobile, it is the only step it has. GO BIG OR GO HOME
    Today 01:14 AM
  24. Wbutchart1's Avatar
    What's next is no windows mobile. It's crystal clear that the new mobile strategy is to have excellent services on ios and Android, with Android able to be almost maxed out to Microsoft stuff.

    I don't think we will see another phone like device from Microsoft, it would be poor use of money for a start. There is simply no money it in, no interested developers and very limited customer interested. It's time to accept that what's next is either Android or stupidly going to ios.
    Today 04:07 AM

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