11-19-2011 04:21 PM
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  1. lumic's Avatar
    Could have been a redesign issue. They had to fit in the capacitive buttons and whatever lies beneath. Just brushing on the basics, it would probably be illogical to keep the camera on the bottom right when the buttons are down there from both a usability and internal space standpoint.
    11-10-2011 04:59 AM
  2. xeverous's Avatar
    cost of implementing FFC x number of units sold (say 200K units) makes a huge savings....auto companies have been doing this for a long time (cigarette lighters as an option). the fact is, competition is getting extremely tough and margins are getting tight. Nokia must have counted on many users who don't see lack of FFC a big deal, who instead will take the build quality and reliability as a positive.

    personally, I consider FFC as must have feature.
    At this stage though, there isn't a practical use for using a FFC, aside from taking pictures of yourself using the Camera app, so this is probably another reason why they omitted it.

    Also, FFC usually tend to be of lower quality in the front, or that their current supplier, Carl Zeiss, doesn't supply FFC either in enough quantity or quality, or that it was too expensive to have a Carl Zeiss FFC. Apparently Nokia has quite high standard for hardware manufacturing and they were known for quality hardware in the past.
    11-10-2011 07:45 AM
  3. jeremyshaw's Avatar
    At this stage though, there isn't a practical use for using a FFC, aside from taking pictures of yourself using the Camera app, so this is probably another reason why they omitted it.

    Also, FFC usually tend to be of lower quality in the front, or that their current supplier, Carl Zeiss, doesn't supply FFC either in enough quantity or quality, or that it was too expensive to have a Carl Zeiss FFC. Apparently Nokia has quite high standard for hardware manufacturing and they were known for quality hardware in the past.
    Issue is, the n9 the lumia 800 is based off of has the ffc.

    Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk
    11-10-2011 10:01 AM
  4. VKris's Avatar
    At this stage though, there isn't a practical use for using a FFC, aside from taking pictures of yourself using the Camera app, so this is probably another reason why they omitted it.

    Also, FFC usually tend to be of lower quality in the front, or that their current supplier, Carl Zeiss, doesn't supply FFC either in enough quantity or quality, or that it was too expensive to have a Carl Zeiss FFC. Apparently Nokia has quite high standard for hardware manufacturing and they were known for quality hardware in the past.
    to each his own, I travel a lot and would prefer to keep in touch with family via Video chat. I use this function in iPod touch through Vtok app. it works quite well. I can only see this getting more popular in a year's time. So the device you buy today should atleast be usable for a couple of years.

    with the Lumia 800 in particular, the price does not justify this omission.

    anyhow, to do some justice to the topic....anyone know if Lumia 800 is eligible for WP8 update
    11-10-2011 10:30 AM
  5. justop26's Avatar
    Could have been a redesign issue. They had to fit in the capacitive buttons and whatever lies beneath. Just brushing on the basics, it would probably be illogical to keep the camera on the bottom right when the buttons are down there from both a usability and internal space standpoint.
    I believe this is the reason. That's why the screen is smaller, too.
    11-10-2011 11:38 AM
  6. xeverous's Avatar
    to each his own, I travel a lot and would prefer to keep in touch with family via Video chat. I use this function in iPod touch through Vtok app. it works quite well. I can only see this getting more popular in a year's time. So the device you buy today should atleast be usable for a couple of years.

    with the Lumia 800 in particular, the price does not justify this omission.

    anyhow, to do some justice to the topic....anyone know if Lumia 800 is eligible for WP8 update
    Lumia 800 is probably going to be very likely be eligible for WP8. I'm quite sure Microsoft will not want to fragment the ecosystem (Like Google did with Android) by upping the system requirements that significantly.
    11-10-2011 02:25 PM
  7. power5's Avatar
    Win8 just needs to be designed to take advantage of as many cores as the phone has available. If it only has 1 core, it only uses 1. If it has 2,3,4 available, it can use as many as needed. This is still not fully utilized in all desktop software though either. Many games are still single threaded for most of the games processing needs with some secondary or tertiary processing done on other cores like sound processing.
    11-10-2011 02:39 PM
  8. jeremyshaw's Avatar
    Lumia 800 is probably going to be very likely be eligible for WP8. I'm quite sure Microsoft will not want to fragment the ecosystem (Like Google did with Android) by upping the system requirements that significantly.
    MS (IMO) is going a Pseudo-Apple route. I'm betting old devices will see less and less functionality/performance, and support be fully discontinued 3 years later (so even the latest reasonable purchases of say, the focus, would be supported for the 2year carrier contract cycle).


    Just IMO.
    11-10-2011 02:46 PM
  9. Rallicat's Avatar
    We really know very little about what will be in Apollo - it may have been acknowledged in an MSDN post - but, beyond that Microsoft are not talking about it. We can only speculate that features like NFC support might be involved based on it being a hot-topic right now.

    As for FFC? Well, sure video calling might be integrated, possibly by making use of Skype in some integrated way.

    We may never know why the FFC was taken out of the Lumia 800 - but here's my personal opinion: I think it was taken out because Microsoft don't yet have video calling in WP7, meaning Nokia would have had to create an entirely new video calling platform themselves (yeah, they could have used Tango, but that's just not how Nokia roll). I suspect that this option was considered, but supressed by Microsoft, who probably have plans of their own, and dont' want video calling to be something implemented by others and ending up fragmented. Sure some other partners are doing it, but the partnership with Nokia is 'special'.

    It's pretty much obvious that whatever format WP8 takes, it will bring a range of new features and functionality. We don't know what that will be, but I sincerely hope Microsoft see sense, and take the 'Apple' approach and provide such an update to as many existing handset owners as possible!
    11-11-2011 04:14 AM
  10. canesfan625's Avatar
    We really know very little about what will be in Apollo - it may have been acknowledged in an MSDN post - but, beyond that Microsoft are not talking about it. We can only speculate that features like NFC support might be involved based on it being a hot-topic right now.
    The speculation makes sense. Andy Lees said himself that NFC is coming in 2012. I don't think most people see a major function like that coming in a minor update and by the time Apollo hits the year will probably be mostly gone meaning Apollo could very well be the last update of the year.
    11-11-2011 07:18 AM
  11. xeverous's Avatar
    Win8 just needs to be designed to take advantage of as many cores as the phone has available. If it only has 1 core, it only uses 1. If it has 2,3,4 available, it can use as many as needed. This is still not fully utilized in all desktop software though either. Many games are still single threaded for most of the games processing needs with some secondary or tertiary processing done on other cores like sound processing.
    Not sure how long support will be for older devices. The general interface of iOS hasn't changed for a long time (Still grids with app icons on it, and nothing graphically intensive), so they are able to do so. But Windows Phone requires lots of animations, thus the 1ghz processor requirement.

    If they are not going to change the interface, then this will probably work, but if they want to take advantage of the new technology, then they will have to drop support or severely cut back what older devices can do (which is essentially the same as dropping support, but not officially)
    11-11-2011 04:48 PM
  12. power5's Avatar
    Its the same with all software developed for desktops. You have a minimum requirement and a recommended requirement for hardware. On the min hardware your experience would be similar to turning aero off in win7 and stuff like that. Take a little of the eye candy away and keep the overall experience. On recommended or above you get all the bells and whistles.
    11-12-2011 08:40 AM
  13. jdd77's Avatar
    Was browsing the Net just now and spotted something interesting on my Twitter feed and clicked it. Quite concise and sums up everything quite easily.

    Just thought that I'd share this out with everyone.

    Windows Phone 8 Apollo : Predictions Aveynes
    Glad to see the flaws of the app menu is recognized in this article and a 3rd screen (swipe to right) will be implemented to include folders.
    11-12-2011 11:43 PM
  14. xeverous's Avatar
    Glad to see the flaws of the app menu is recognized in this article and a 3rd screen (swipe to right) will be implemented to include folders.
    With Mango including a search feature within the 3rd screen / list of apps, a folders feature necessary any longer?
    11-13-2011 02:11 AM
  15. jdd77's Avatar
    With Mango including a search feature within the 3rd screen / list of apps, a folders feature necessary any longer?
    Folders are a logical and necessary way of organizing and storing apps on a smartphone. Wp7 grudgingly uses a sloppy and unorganized alphabetical list that is beyond basic. The worst part is, this form is used not for the benefit of the user...but to starkly differ and oppose the popular and beneficial ways of other OS's, mainly the likes of Android. Microsoft misses the point, where if they incorporated such tried and true features, in addition to the smooth and intuitive interface of wp7, they'd have a chance to survive.
    11-13-2011 02:58 AM
  16. johnmcd348's Avatar
    I don't see a problem with folders. We use them every day on our PC's. Why not have an option to store documents and files and access them by selecting and having the appropriate program start. The end goal is to eventually have a smart phone work in teh same manner as your PC for ease of use. Why not this?
    11-13-2011 03:00 PM
  17. xeverous's Avatar
    I don't see a problem with folders. We use them every day on our PC's. Why not have an option to store documents and files and access them by selecting and having the appropriate program start. The end goal is to eventually have a smart phone work in teh same manner as your PC for ease of use. Why not this?
    Folders are a logical and necessary way of organizing and storing apps on a smartphone. Wp7 grudgingly uses a sloppy and unorganized alphabetical list that is beyond basic. The worst part is, this form is used not for the benefit of the user...but to starkly differ and oppose the popular and beneficial ways of other OS's, mainly the likes of Android. Microsoft misses the point, where if they incorporated such tried and true features, in addition to the smooth and intuitive interface of wp7, they'd have a chance to survive.
    I think using the current form of folders that is used within the current Windows (XP, Vista, 7 - not so sure about 8 but I think the start menu no longer exists, and it is the tablet-like UX / Metro that is the Start Menu now.) is likely to not work on a phone. Too much tapping to get to what you want.

    Swipe --> Tap --> Tap

    Might sound short but might get annoying for user.
    11-14-2011 05:25 PM
  18. GekkoAce's Avatar
    Seems like most of this stuff is coming in Tango, not a year from now with 8...
    11-14-2011 06:19 PM
  19. jdd77's Avatar
    I don't think tango is that kind of update.
    11-14-2011 07:09 PM
  20. canesfan625's Avatar
    Folders are a logical and necessary way of organizing and storing apps on a smartphone. Wp7 grudgingly uses a sloppy and unorganized alphabetical list that is beyond basic. The worst part is, this form is used not for the benefit of the user...but to starkly differ and oppose the popular and beneficial ways of other OS's, mainly the likes of Android. Microsoft misses the point, where if they incorporated such tried and true features, in addition to the smooth and intuitive interface of wp7, they'd have a chance to survive.
    Everything is also aggregated in windows phone. The homebrew app for folders is pretty nifty. Worth a look if you are dev unlocked. "tried and true features" lol android didn't even have a soft keyboard until cupcake. Isn't that also when it got live folders? seems none of these OS launched with folders..
    11-14-2011 07:57 PM
  21. xeverous's Avatar
    I don't think tango is that kind of update.
    Yep. Tango's likely to be like NoDo, but also with extra optimisations (apparently) for low-end WP devices.

    Just saw that the same guy wrote something on folders. Worth taking a look - very interesting ideas over there.

    Folders – How will Microsoft address that in Windows Phone 8? – Analysis + Proposal Aveynes
    11-17-2011 02:57 PM
  22. GekkoAce's Avatar
    I do. Some things we know it's likely bringing are LTE, different screen resolution(s?), dual core...
    I think they are trying to surprise us by downplaying it so far. Hopefully there will be a dev beta out in not toooo long.

    I don't think tango is that kind of update.

    Sent from my OMNIA7 using Board Express
    11-19-2011 11:45 AM
  23. jdd77's Avatar
    I do. Some things we know it's likely bringing are LTE, different screen resolution(s?), dual core...
    I think they are trying to surprise us by downplaying it so far. Hopefully there will be a dev beta out in not toooo long.




    Sent from my OMNIA7 using Board Express
    I hope thats the case.
    I did see a cool concept at-

    http://www..1800pocketpc.com/live-cu...concept/23842/

    This would replace the need for folders. Maybe something like this is coming in Tango..
    11-19-2011 01:54 PM
  24. jfa1's Avatar
    Seems like most of this stuff is coming in Tango, not a year from now with 8...
    I believe that Apollo will be windows Phone 8 and windows 8 as well and its headed out as far as I remember in June 2012
    11-19-2011 04:21 PM
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