05-31-2012 06:12 PM
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  1. peestandingup's Avatar
    WHITNEY TILSON: These Three Companies Are In 'Full Scale Collapse' - Business Insider

    He also mentions RIM. We all can pretty much say that we know RIM is (they obviously have no direction & no future), but IMO Nokia is a toss up. What do you guys think?
    04-21-2012 12:55 AM
  2. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    I believe Nokia can survive if it sells its feature phone line. The feature phones are a money loser. The future is in smartphones.

    Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express
    TheRewardisCheese likes this.
    04-21-2012 01:17 AM
  3. vantil's Avatar
    Well NOK stock has been going down over a year now.
    Markets just don't beliave in windows phone taking off because they never beliave it untill they see it. Rampant pessimism. Total opposite to Apple. (growth in the past means growth in the future)

    Lumia 900 sales figures might shut some mouths soon enough.
    bear_lx and TheRewardisCheese like this.
    04-21-2012 01:19 AM
  4. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    I am convinced the Lumia will be successful. Feature phones will not.

    Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express
    04-21-2012 01:20 AM
  5. vantil's Avatar
    I believe Nokia can survive if it sells its feature phone line. The feature phones are a money loser. The future is in smartphones.
    No. Feature phones is the old cash cow for Nokia. Getting less important but still profitable.
    It's the Nokia Siemens networks that Nokia needs to sell/kill/fix. It's been losing money from the the start.
    04-21-2012 01:25 AM
  6. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    No. Feature phones is the old cash cow for Nokia. Getting less important but still profitable.

    It's the Nokia Siemens networks that Nokia needs to sell/kill/fix. It's been losing money from the the start.
    I see the feature phone to Nokia as the cheap Curve is to RIM.

    Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express
    04-21-2012 01:31 AM
  7. alaskanjackson's Avatar
    Some reasons why Nokia will not collapse:

    Intellectual property- if their value drops below say $3.00 per share. They will have aggressive suitors wanting to buy them out.
    My opinion...

    Good Friends- Along with MS, they have or will have real backing from all large telcos worldwide
    This along with strong support from EU regulators provides a huge safety net.

    cash- they and their partners have cash..loads of it.

    Marketing- they can market worldwide better than any other handset provider (yes better than appl, nok got lazy over the past 3 years)

    Technology/innovation-my guess is they are holding back major innovations until this next holiday season. I think they can leapfrog appl.

    Finally, WP7 was designed intentionally to appeal too and be flexible enough to be excepted worldwide. If you pay attention to customer satisfaction their Lumia phones are a hit. If you look beyond they hyperbole of the various pundits and listen to consumers you should be buying NOK hand over fist.

    Remember the US is 5% of the worlds population. Most of the world can't afford to pay 400.00 for a phone and 1.00 a song and premium prices for products that don't add value to their lives (apple). Nokia is aiming for 6+ billion folks who may never own an apple product. I am betting Nok is Successful. Remember just an opinion.
    bear_lx and TheRewardisCheese like this.
    04-21-2012 01:52 AM
  8. oldpueblo's Avatar
    Windows Phone will eventually hit a threshold where the hype becomes self-sustaining. I don't know if we're close, but it's definitely heading that direction in what seems to be a decent manner. If MS keeps at it like the Xbox then it's a sure thing. If Nokia drops so far down that they become a shell of a company, then it's a great time for MS to just buy them for cheap. :)
    04-21-2012 03:03 AM
  9. vantil's Avatar
    I see the feature phone to Nokia as the cheap Curve is to RIM.
    Feature phone market going down? Maybe.
    That does not mean its unprofitable bussiness than should be dumbed.
    Nokia is still making some 25% profit off every feature phone.

    But obviously smartphones are the future and therefore more important.
    04-21-2012 03:54 AM
  10. canesfan625's Avatar
    If it came from CNBC you can just about guarantee it's at least 90% BS
    04-21-2012 05:51 AM
  11. bear_lx's Avatar
    im sooooooo tired of reading the negative, and even more tired of it being posted here... although i understand how it makes pople feel, i too felt that way. however i have found that ignoring it helps.

    nokia isnt going to collapse, nor is microsoft or windows phone
    04-21-2012 08:19 AM
  12. socialcarpet's Avatar
    Nokia's future is highly dependent on hanging onto what is left of their marketshare in emerging markets and growing that.

    This is why they are putting so much effort into Tango and the Lumia 610. The Lumia 610 and future lower spec Nokia WP phones are just as important to Nokia's survival as the success of the higher end stuff.

    Nokia enjoyed a strong position worldwide for years with their feature phones, and their high-end feature phones (lower end Symbian devices) but the avalanche of cheap asian Android phones has crushed them in that segment and they are scrambling to get out from under. This is key.

    Nokia has GOT to get some $100-125 (no contract price) Lumia's with Tango on them out in China, India and southeast Asia ASAP. They need to promote the crap out of them too, just like the Lumia 900 was promoted here. Android is eating their lunch there and far faster than they ever anticipated. Symbian and Meego are not going to save them there. If they can position WP7 phones as a desirable option in those markets, then they will be able to staunch the bleeding and begin to climb back up.

    That part of their strategy is every bit as important as what they do here in the U.S.
    There are already more Android activations and iPhones being sold in China than in the U.S.

    It's easy to think we are the center of the universe here and complain that Microsoft and Nokia aren't giving us everything we want the minute we want it. Just remember, at the same time they are working on Apollo and stuff for us, they also need to be getting the Lumia 610 and other phones ready for these equally important market. It's also just as important for them to get popular Chinese language WP7 apps developed as it is to get Words with Friends or whatever your pet missing app is.

    They've got their work cut out for them. :blush:
    04-21-2012 02:11 PM
  13. red grenadine's Avatar
    Just FYI
    Whitney Tilson is a hedge fund manager who is short Nokia. Of course he's going to say the company is going to zero; he'll profit from the drop.

    He may be right or he may be wrong, but you have to consider the source.

    I'm of the opinion Microsoft would just buy Nokia if the latter was really in trouble
    04-21-2012 02:20 PM
  14. sentimentGX4's Avatar
    Neither Nokia nor RIM are in "Full Scale Collapse". Both companies have healthy balance sheets that will sustain them for a while, even if neither return to their former glory. "Full Scale Collapse" appears to imply imminent, near term bankruptcy and that is simply not the case for either of these companies.

    I think a more accurate description is that the companies are simply in "Collapse". It's not an irreversible collapse. The companies are very likely to turn profitable again or be bought out for their assets. This article is another example of media sensationalism.



    EDIT: I'd like to add that Nokia may actually recover a sizable percentage of its former market share given its success in the American market penetration.
    Last edited by Sentimentgx4; 04-21-2012 at 02:43 PM.
    04-21-2012 02:27 PM
  15. Welve's Avatar
    WHITNEY TILSON: These Three Companies Are In 'Full Scale Collapse' - Business Insider

    He also mentions RIM. We all can pretty much say that we know RIM is (they obviously have no direction & no future), but IMO Nokia is a toss up. What do you guys think?
    I am not going to read any of this...Nokia might have lost a billion, but that was before the US launch of the 900 and they have something like 4 billion in cash and are buddy buddy with MSFT...
    04-21-2012 05:20 PM
  16. falconeight#IM's Avatar
    They could fail but I wouldn't bet on it.
    04-21-2012 07:33 PM
  17. tekhna's Avatar
    Just FYI
    Whitney Tilson is a hedge fund manager who is short Nokia. Of course he's going to say the company is going to zero; he'll profit from the drop.

    He may be right or he may be wrong, but you have to consider the source.

    I'm of the opinion Microsoft would just buy Nokia if the latter was really in trouble
    Isn't it an awfully huge no-no to predict doom for a stock you're shorting? Kinda looks like touting.
    04-21-2012 09:01 PM
  18. cckgz4's Avatar
    If they keep producing wide arrays of WP phones, they'll be alright.

    Sent from my Le Lumia using Board Express
    04-22-2012 01:25 AM
  19. johnmcd348's Avatar
    I've kinda been wondering this for awhile also. Over the last year or so and for a few years prior when MS first announced it's plan for WP7 and it's incompatibility with previous WM OS, I felt there was a serious flaw in their marketing and market plan. then to introduce an OS that wasn't really able to compete with what was already out there was another misstep.

    I feel they lost a lot of people with this switch over to WP7 and have not tried very hard, until recently, to get them back or show others why they should have stayed. By this time, many, if not most, of the WM crowd have moved on to Droid and iOS. I cold have very well been one of them myself had I not had the opportunity to move over to WP7 for $35 as a service exchange for my TP2 by Sprint.

    If Nokia continues to make trend setting phones like the Lumia and continues to advance technology and options then, even if WP doesn't make it in the market, they should be able to easily adapt their phones into the Droid market. I just don't know if they can meet the lower price points that many of the Droid phones sell for and still clear a substantial enough profit to carry on. They definitely build a device that's appealing and marketable. It's the poor marketing of the OS that's going to be the downfall, if it occurs.
    04-22-2012 12:47 PM
  20. smoledman's Avatar
    I've kinda been wondering this for awhile also. Over the last year or so and for a few years prior when MS first announced it's plan for WP7 and it's incompatibility with previous WM OS, I felt there was a serious flaw in their marketing and market plan. then to introduce an OS that wasn't really able to compete with what was already out there was another misstep.

    I feel they lost a lot of people with this switch over to WP7 and have not tried very hard, until recently, to get them back or show others why they should have stayed. By this time, many, if not most, of the WM crowd have moved on to Droid and iOS. I cold have very well been one of them myself had I not had the opportunity to move over to WP7 for $35 as a service exchange for my TP2 by Sprint.

    If Nokia continues to make trend setting phones like the Lumia and continues to advance technology and options then, even if WP doesn't make it in the market, they should be able to easily adapt their phones into the Droid market. I just don't know if they can meet the lower price points that many of the Droid phones sell for and still clear a substantial enough profit to carry on. They definitely build a device that's appealing and marketable. It's the poor marketing of the OS that's going to be the downfall, if it occurs.
    No. If Nokia doesn't make with Windows Phones they are done. It is pointless to even think in such defeatist terms. Nokia + WP = success.
    04-22-2012 12:54 PM
  21. MattLFC's Avatar
    Imho, Microsoft won't let Nokia fail, and neither will the Finnish government. If Nokia collapse, Windows Phone collapses with it; and anyone who know's anything about Finland, will realise that Nokia is as much a "national institution" as the NHS is in the UK, and Coca Cola is in the US - but more importantly, there is too much reliance on Nokia from the viewpoint of Finnish jobs, and economical power.
    04-22-2012 01:38 PM
  22. Johnny Tremaine's Avatar
    Intellectual property- if their value drops below say $3.00 per share. They will have aggressive suitors wanting to buy them out.
    As of today, Nokia's share price is a $3.70. If they have another bad quarter as bad as the last one, or worse (as they're guiding), yes, it can fall below $3.

    I'm assuming companies are already circling Nokia, looking to buy up different divisions, but mostly getting ahold of all those wireless patents.

    Off the cuff prediction: by 2013, forget the Nokia you've always known as this giant phone manufacturer. The new Nokia will very likely be a smaller, leaner smartphone shop, sort of like HTC.

    Of course that means more job losses, shareholder losses and very possibly another change in CEO (Elop will never survive post-acquisitions of any major divisions).

    At the very worst, Nokia becomes the *official* hardware division of Microsoft, while selling off everything else.
    04-23-2012 12:01 AM
  23. cp2_4eva's Avatar
    Nokia has too much money to be considered in the midst of a full scale collapse. Also, I think their new line of smartphones is the resurgence of the company. The public think that just because a company loses some money that it's reason for them to be really worried. You can't always go up in the earnings column. You have bad eras. But with a company as big and successful as Nokia, do you really think they would need to sell off small divisions? They have billions. They can weather the storm. And I hope they do.
    04-23-2012 10:03 AM
  24. socialcarpet's Avatar
    No. If Nokia doesn't make with Windows Phones they are done. It is pointless to even think in such defeatist terms. Nokia + WP = success.
    Agreed.

    Another OS transition would finish them. They have to stick with Windows Phone.

    If they announced in a year that they were going to Android, it would signal the beginning of the end of Nokia, guaranteed. They would hang on for a while, but you would see a steady decline that would not end until the company toppled.
    04-23-2012 10:24 AM
  25. willied's Avatar
    This is only going to benefit me when I buy their shares for nothing and years later I'll sell them for a billion dollars!!!! Wooooooooooooo!!!! :P
    04-23-2012 10:28 AM
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