06-18-2012 05:46 PM
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  1. bigkevbosky's Avatar
    Guess my question then is, if you can be in the MS ecosystem without WP, whats the point of WP then?
    That is the point - being more integrated in the ecosystem. Its why Apple makes iTunes for Windows. By your logic, Apple should make iTunes exclusive to Macs. Because why buy a Mac if you can get iTunes on Windows? But they don't do that because they know by limiting iTunes to the smaller footprint of computers, they hurt themselves.

    By putting iTunes on Windows, they get Windows users into their ecosystem, and hope, eventually, the Windows user goes "ok its time to upgrade computers - I think I'll go Apple since my music, movies, books, etc will all work more seamlessly with their products". Would it NOT work with Windows? No, it works ok, just not as smoothly.

    That's the idea Microsoft is trying to push here - get other platform users into the idea that their ecosystem offers value and it will work "better" on Microsoft devices like Windows Phone and Windows 8.
    Vallos, eric12341, aubreyq and 1 others like this.
    06-14-2012 01:50 PM
  2. ninjaap's Avatar
    Guess my question then is, if you can be in the MS ecosystem without WP, whats the point of WP then?
    To make phone calls, and increase Bing and IE traffic.
    06-14-2012 02:00 PM
  3. theefman's Avatar
    That is the point - being more integrated in the ecosystem. Its why Apple makes iTunes for Windows. By your logic, Apple should make iTunes exclusive to Macs. Because why buy a Mac if you can get iTunes on Windows? But they don't do that because they know by limiting iTunes to the smaller footprint of computers, they hurt themselves.

    By putting iTunes on Windows, they get Windows users into their ecosystem, and hope, eventually, the Windows user goes "ok its time to upgrade computers - I think I'll go Apple since my music, movies, books, etc will all work more seamlessly with their products". Would it NOT work with Windows? No, it works ok, just not as smoothly.

    That's the idea Microsoft is trying to push here - get other platform users into the idea that their ecosystem offers value and it will work "better" on Microsoft devices like Windows Phone and Windows 8.
    I dont think your analogy works because apple HAD to release itunes on Windows otherwise the millions who would have bought ipods and were already using Windows couldnt use them. So they had no choice and even then, that alone would not be enough to sway people to macs, they would have to offer better integration than you would get on windows.

    In the case of WP it doesnt look like you get any advantages by using a Windows PC, you can actually do a backup with the Mac client where on the PC backups are only performed when there's an update. Far from offering a better, integrated experience for WP users. You get the same sync and update experience so no advantage there. With things like Smartglass, Skydrive, bing and eventually office and other services going to competitors MS doesnt seem to be promoting the idea that those services work better with WP and a Windows PC.

    And going back to your analogy it makes more sense to give users a reason to use your product rather than a competitors, which Microsoft did by offering the Mac sync client but is not doing by giving away WP exclusives.
    06-14-2012 02:16 PM
  4. AngryNil's Avatar
    the goal of growing WP's marketshare significantly is now something that MS has abandoned and its just there to enable MS to say they have a presence in the mobile space.
    This makes zero sense.

    Again negating any advantage for Windows Phone.
    SmartGlass will have Windows-exclusive features.
    eric12341 likes this.
    06-15-2012 09:25 AM
  5. bigkevbosky's Avatar
    I dont think your analogy works because apple HAD to release itunes on Windows otherwise the millions who would have bought ipods and were already using Windows couldnt use them. So they had no choice and even then, that alone would not be enough to sway people to macs, they would have to offer better integration than you would get on windows.
    Ok, if that analogy didn't work for you, what about this one :

    One of Microsoft's biggest money makers is Office. If they kept Office exclusive for Windows, and never released it on Mac, wouldn't that be a bigger push to keep people buying Windows based PCs? Why did they, and still do, release Office for Mac? Why are they going to be releasing Office for iPad - especially when they're about to push Windows 8 RT?

    I guess we can agree to disagree, and you've made some compelling arguments, but we're just looking at it from different perspectives. You're looking at it purely from a Windows Phone point of view, and I'm looking at it from an entire Microsoft ecosystem. Windows Phone isn't going anywhere, I'm not at all worried about that. So if MS wants to release stuff multi-platform....well, ok. As long as I have it on my WP7 device, I'm good. I really don't think you have to worry about Microsoft "leaving" the mobile market.

    I think you're worried that without WP7 growing, app selection will continue to be limited. And I think with the money invested by Microsoft and the integration Windows Phone will have with both Xbox and Win 8, WP7 will grow almost by default. We'll see in a couple of years who is right.
    06-15-2012 09:53 AM
  6. theefman's Avatar
    Ok, if that analogy didn't work for you, what about this one :

    One of Microsoft's biggest money makers is Office. If they kept Office exclusive for Windows, and never released it on Mac, wouldn't that be a bigger push to keep people buying Windows based PCs? Why did they, and still do, release Office for Mac? Why are they going to be releasing Office for iPad - especially when they're about to push Windows 8 RT?

    I guess we can agree to disagree, and you've made some compelling arguments, but we're just looking at it from different perspectives. You're looking at it purely from a Windows Phone point of view, and I'm looking at it from an entire Microsoft ecosystem. Windows Phone isn't going anywhere, I'm not at all worried about that. So if MS wants to release stuff multi-platform....well, ok. As long as I have it on my WP7 device, I'm good. I really don't think you have to worry about Microsoft "leaving" the mobile market.

    I think you're worried that without WP7 growing, app selection will continue to be limited. And I think with the money invested by Microsoft and the integration Windows Phone will have with both Xbox and Win 8, WP7 will grow almost by default. We'll see in a couple of years who is right.
    I think its different for WP because they are not in a good position relative to the competition that MS is releasing these products on. MS can afford not to release Office for Mac because that is not a huge revenue stream for them, but it helps them remain the number 1 productivity suite. They would still hold that position though even without a Mac version.

    Now looking at Office for ipad, commenters like Mary Jo Foley have reported that there have been hot debates in Microsoft because some are opposed to releasing it because of the effect it may have on Windows RT tablet sales. This is the position WP is in, a newcomer into a market dominated by incumbents ios and android and just as some feel office for ipad will be detrimental for Windows RT, I have a similar view with regards to reducing the exclusive features of WP by releasing it on other platforms.

    I get the point that overall its a benefit to Microsoft in mindshare and exposure, but in Windows Phone's case, with so many divisions seeming to put WP behind other mobile platforms, with its most dedicated OEM struggling and overall marketshare still miniscule I think diminishing the USP's of WP doesnt help it grow in any way, and ultimately as you say, apps and services will continue to be absent on WP and that is not going to help WP grow to significant numbers.

    We shall definitely see, but with so many WP features not available in many regions, MS developed apps lagging in features found on other platforms, and the integration you mention not being exclusive to WP, my personal feeling is that MS could do much more to push it and its unique features over the competition.


    SmartGlass will have Windows-exclusive features.
    Windows 8 maybe, WP probably not, the ios Xbox live app has feature parity with the WP version, Smartglass is unlikely to have any WP exclusive features as MS themselves have said.
    06-15-2012 10:28 AM
  7. AngryNil's Avatar
    the ios Xbox live app has feature parity with the WP version
    As a whole, XBL functionality is superior on WP due to integration, achievements and a proper collection of titles.

    Smartglass is unlikely to have any WP exclusive features as MS themselves have said.
    Where's your source?
    06-15-2012 11:53 PM
  8. InfectedPhreak's Avatar
    As an outsider, I have tested the companion app on my DInc and it's impressive... but it doesn't exactly "fit". It doesn't feel like it belongs, feels almost foreign. I wish I had a WP, nonetheless of what it does or doesn't have. It fits me, and I think that's what it really comes down to.

    On the subject, XBL and the Companion App are small parts of the bigger ecosystem. Once you get the Xbox, the PC, and the phone... it'll fit. I just think once everyone gets their hands on... It'll change. At least, I hope so. :)
    06-16-2012 06:28 PM
  9. cckgz4's Avatar
    I ain't getting no stinking Xbox lol
    06-17-2012 03:57 AM
  10. theefman's Avatar
    As a whole, XBL functionality is superior on WP due to integration, achievements and a proper collection of titles.
    Apart from achievements, and arranging your games in one place, which obviously the ios version won't do, the ios version has everything in one place, no need to go hunting for separate apps. If a new user didn't already know about them they would probably think WP doesn't actually have the companion app or avatar editor. As for integration, it comes built in, not much more beyond that.

    Where's your source?
    Microsoft Xbox SmartGlass: an in
    06-17-2012 07:43 AM
  11. based_graham's Avatar
    This is my take on the situation.

    I think its a good idea Microsoft is allowing exclusive features on other phones and here's why.

    It gives a reason for a person that is heavily invested into Google or Apple's ecosystem to buy a Microsoft product (360) over its competitors (PS3, Wii).

    The Xbox 360 can slowly penetrate an ecosystem (like a Trojan horse) which would hopefully lead that consumer into trying more MS products and Services.

    For example if the person loves the Metro UI, Xbox Live experience he/she might give Windows 8 a chance. If the person loves Windows 8 he/she might give Windows Phone a chance etc. The more brand awareness the more potential sales in the future.

    From a Windows user point of view. I have a Windows PC, Windows Phone, Xbox 360 there isn't a product on Apple's catalog worth buying everything I have flows and covers my lifestyle.

    This is not the same for Apple and Google users who don't have a legit gaming console experience. The 360 is meant to penetrate those living rooms.

    Now with the smart glass experience it gives another feature that separates the Xbox brand from its competitors. The more accessible the service is the better the entire ecosystem benefits.

    Now for current Windows Users. Microsoft needs to make the experience better from what I can see Windows Phone users can earn achievements and play their games on the go. I don't think IOS and Android devices will do that.

    As long as the Xbox Live experience is the best on a Windows device I am totally fine with it. Remember Xbox is a global brand it needs to cater to everybody.
    Thuoudo and eric12341 like this.
    06-17-2012 12:52 PM
  12. techinsane011's Avatar
    MSFT you want the apple and android love so badly. So so sad.
    06-18-2012 02:51 AM
  13. Reflexx's Avatar
    MSFT you want the apple and android love so badly. So so sad.
    What are you talking about?

    They want customers everywhere to see what great products they offer. What's sad about that?

    It's called good business.
    06-18-2012 04:13 AM
  14. Reflexx's Avatar
    Ok, if that analogy didn't work for you, what about this one :

    One of Microsoft's biggest money makers is Office. If they kept Office exclusive for Windows, and never released it on Mac, wouldn't that be a bigger push to keep people buying Windows based PCs? Why did they, and still do, release Office for Mac? Why are they going to be releasing Office for iPad - especially when they're about to push Windows 8 RT?

    I guess we can agree to disagree, and you've made some compelling arguments, but we're just looking at it from different perspectives. You're looking at it purely from a Windows Phone point of view, and I'm looking at it from an entire Microsoft ecosystem. Windows Phone isn't going anywhere, I'm not at all worried about that. So if MS wants to release stuff multi-platform....well, ok. As long as I have it on my WP7 device, I'm good. I really don't think you have to worry about Microsoft "leaving" the mobile market.

    I think you're worried that without WP7 growing, app selection will continue to be limited. And I think with the money invested by Microsoft and the integration Windows Phone will have with both Xbox and Win 8, WP7 will grow almost by default. We'll see in a couple of years who is right.
    Office for Mac was a big tech history moment.

    Microsoft introduced Office for Mac to help save Apple. Apple was dying, and Microsoft needed there to be a significant competitor in the market. They made a deal with Steve Jobs to save Apple. And in turn, the entire market grew, giving more for everyone.

    Market share isn't as important as profits. It's better to contribute to the growth of the entire market as opposed to fighting for existing market share.
    selfcreation likes this.
    06-18-2012 04:17 AM
  15. bigkevbosky's Avatar
    Market share isn't as important as profits. It's better to contribute to the growth of the entire market as opposed to fighting for existing market share.
    In one phrase you've summed up what I've been trying to say throughout this whole thread.

    Microsoft is doing what's best for them to MAKE MONEY - not push Windows Phone. They want WP to succeed, yes, but they want to make money even more. And if that means releasing apps on other platforms so they can sell more Xbox consoles and Xbox Live subscriptions, that's what they'll do.

    They run their company like what it is, a business - its not a hobby, like it is for us.
    06-18-2012 08:46 AM
  16. Gemini Ace's Avatar
    Point is, there were several bullet points that WP users could point to as reason we switched to WP in the first place. And with every app MS released that was exclusive, we felt like MS was supporting our decision. Now that they're porting everything to iOS, it's harder to win the argument with those smug iPhone users about what the superior OS is. And, yes, it's silly to have that argument in the first place because we're all using phones that are so advanced it would make our grandparents fill their Depends, but we all want our choice in choosing to back WP to mean something. Especially when we know that the OS is superior to its competitors in a lot of ways.

    Bottom line is, the day I see MS allow Xbox Live and the whole achievement system to be ported to iOS and Android, is the day I lose faith completely. They can port Kinectimals all they want, but my achievements need to remain exclusive to the platform. Period.
    06-18-2012 09:33 AM
  17. cp2_4eva's Avatar
    I fully understand that MS wants the money in any way they can get it, but as an avid WP device user, I sure hope this turns over some profit that way they can further advance the WP devices and maybe spice up the research and development department. I don't want WP devices to be an afterthough that us folks pride ourselves on owning.

    The mobile phone has become the center of so many people's lives that it would be (IMO) stupid to not put some hard focus on. BUT, I have faith that we aren't seeing the big picture behing what MS has in store. Convergence. Xbox, WP devices, Windows Tablets, and windows PC. They've explained it before, but since it hasn't actually happened yet, we might not appreciate it as it should be. Once this plan comes to fruition then I'm sure we wont even care about the exclusivity issue we are talking about now. Because Android and Apple devices probably wont have it like that. Now, if MS starts making equivalent ports to the other platforms, then I'm bailing lol.
    06-18-2012 10:09 AM
  18. canesfan625's Avatar
    They'll have no reason to since they can have the same features and more on their current platform. Or am I missing something, cos I dont see how it brings anyone over to Windows Phone in any way. Eg, if apple released siri on WP, would that make it less or more likely for a happy WP user to switch to an ios device?
    I can't take this thread seriously anymore after reading this. Siri is a joke. Have you actually used it? I get a kick out of watching people repeat themselves over and over just for it still be wrong at the end. Also, with few exceptions Siri would never be the deciding factor. How many people have you seen switch from iOS to WP because of XBox? Not many. Its usually plenty of other things that are mentioned. Silly thread is silly. /Exit stage left.
    wolf1891 likes this.
    06-18-2012 05:46 PM
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