Still can't get the hang of this camera. What am I missing?

[Jaripi]

I have taken a lot of photos from people, also flash photos and I am very happy with my photos. They look really great on my 46" display. Of course, xenon flash would be nice, but a dual led flash is OK ... yeah, it is really great phone camera and I am very happy with it ...

Well, I have made some mistakes too, like taking pics with a dirty camera lens resulting not so good pics, but I can not claim my phone about that ...

 

[vlad0]

The problem with this camera isn't the camera, and it's not even the user's photographic skills (you'll be happy to hear, congusano), it's where we are with camera tech at the moment, and the blown-out-of-proportion hype that surrounded this one.

Spot on.

What irritates me the most is that for years and years they (the camera industry, and consequently the phone industry) kept telling us that the more megapixels you have, the better the image quality, and while that was true in 2-3Mpix days, once we got to 5+ Mpix it became rather.. pointless.

I hope more people look and read trough this little website: http://6mpixel.org/en/

its an eye opener

Another thing that I gets me is the BSI crap all the phone makers are marketing so heavily... in reality one of the main reasons for the switch from FSI to BSI sensors was the fact that they didn't have to increase the sensor size in order to increase the megapixel count. There are technical limitations to how small the pixels can be on an FSI sensor, which seems to be around 1.4 microns.. anything smaller than that gets messy.

BSI allowed them to go up to 13/16, by dipping into 1.1 micron pixels.. that way they could continue their little megapixel war and keep those same tiny 1/3" sensors.

I am not saying that BSI doesn't have potential, I am just saying that its being used by the phone OEMs for a different reason. The best phone cameras out there to date are both FSI sensors, and both of them have larger than 1/3" sensors. Like you said, with the current tech available, the only way to have any meaningful image quality gains is to increase the sensor/pixel size, and to use better optics.

On the subject of "red eyes", well... Nokia solved the issue there as well, but the Xenon systems require space, and a mechanical shutter.. The capacitors required for the flash unit in the 808 are almost as thick as the whole Galaxy S4.

Until they come up with an LED that can replicate what Xenon flashes can do, flash photography on smartphones will remain useless. Expect of course on the 808, which brings me to the "blown-out-of-proportion hype" around the 920 part... for some reason they decided to use the pureview branding for this, and considering that the Symbian phone was already in use and reviewed all over the globe, won several imaging awards, etc., everyone thought that the 920 will bring similar results, which is clearly not the case.

I don't want to get into "why they haven't brought the system to WP yet" discussion again, but for anyone interested here is a good take on the subject.. it slightly differs from my own, but still.. he has couple of good points:

Why Nokia 808 had to use Symbian...

He says we will never see it on WP,.. I strongly disagree. We will see the same, or something better.. its a matter of time.

 

[rockstarzzz]

I agree partially with Vlad. But that is the power of research marketing. That is how global economics are played.

They told us coffee was awesome once, got people addicted. They told us drinking was bad, now a "certain" amount is good. They told us microwaves are awesome, now they cause cancer.

If they don't tell us pureview is the best, who would buy phones? That doesn't mean it isn't right. That means they see a bit of opportunity and rest is marketing. They told us Apple is a premium device, we pay ridiculous money. Have you read how many users on the internet regret buying that premium decide? It was just glorified phone marketed in a really good way.

Anyone who thinks they can replace their DSLR with a Lumia 920, is nothing but blinded by marketing. But anyone who tells me that their N-series phone is better than Lumia 920, is equally blinded but not by marketing this time.

 

[jdhooghe]

This was never about hype with the 920 camera. I know about marketing and I never expected this to be on par with the iPhone. It is about getting more good pictures than bad pictures. In this case, it is the photos coming out dark when I have the flash on and images coming out soft and fuzzy during the day and night. I have tried the stock and ProShot camera. I am using 4:3 resolution to get the sharpest photo and they aren't coming out correctly. I take multiple photos and rarely get a good one. The photo shown in the original post is probably the sharpest photo I have ever gotten out of this camera since I've had this. I don't expect this camera to be on par with a dslr. I'm just asking for advice in how you all "point and shoot"

And yes, I am using Nokia's CC-10-something case on it. But I've also been taking photos without the case.

I just want to know the secret to taking photos, like the above cat, all the time. Here is one shot that I had hoped would have come out better:

https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=2CCF32E3673E856F!1409&authkey=!AE5Z0q5QhqnNR14

I thought it scene was beautiful but when I look at the photo it hurts my eyes. It is blurry. It's like it is out of focus.

Anyway, thank you all again for the help. I do agree that it does take great low-light photos but I would like just a tad sharper images that don't look out of focus.

 

[rockstarzzz]

I am not sure how to really respond to that. I want just say "bad unit" but we cant just have that as a working answer.

This is what I captured recently. Would you call that soft?

https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=91B0674BEB3D474F!97618&authkey=!AC-Bhd8AbWRZy-0

I get this quality and am generally okay with it, without using any filters or apps like proshot. I never understood why I needed proshot but purchased it due to good reviews and support the dev.

 

[LumiaDream]

The least we can expect when trying to help you is engage with us when we reply to your thread, please answer my question, in my previous post; Are you using a cover for your phone? Some (most, if not all) covers interfere with incoming light to the sensor, even if they don't cover the sensor. Try taking off the cover takes some test shots and see for yourself.

 

[JustToClarify]

I don't want to get into "why they haven't brought the system to WP yet" discussion again, but for anyone interested here is a good take on the subject.. it slightly differs from my own, but still.. he has couple of good points:

Why Nokia 808 had to use Symbian...

He says we will never see it on WP,.. I strongly disagree. We will see the same, or something better.. its a matter of time.

Well the article clearly states that PureView is possible on WP but not in next 2-3-4 years in the form of a classic <200g phone. So the options are to wait for the technology advancement until 2015-2017 and then make such a phone or release the competitor to Galaxy Camera in the form of a smartcam this year which I would put my bet on...

 

[realwarder]

I just want to know the secret to taking photos, like the above cat, all the time. Here is one shot that I had hoped would have come out better:

https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=2CCF32E3673E856F!1409&authkey=!AE5Z0q5QhqnNR14

I thought it scene was beautiful but when I look at the photo it hurts my eyes. It is blurry. It's like it is out of focus.

Anyway, thank you all again for the help. I do agree that it does take great low-light photos but I would like just a tad sharper images that don't look out of focus.

That Skydrive photo is not full res. I suggest you check your phone is set to not compress images it uploads to Skydrive, or copy the photos using USB to a PC.

 

[karmamule]

Am I the only person who actually takes pictures of people? The pics are nice and if I took pictures of random objects it would probably work for me too. I also wonder how many pics were taken to get one good one? But in real use situations, its useless to me.

I take pictures of my family and my friends for upload to fb, etc. I haven't taken one photo indoors that every person looking at camera didn't have glowing eyes, not red eyes, glowing eyes. I have a whole bunch of pics from Thanksgiving and Christmas that were useless until I post edited. I used my Razr Maxx for comparison in same pics with no glowing eyes. Flash on, flash off, tweaked settings, everything I could think of and still I got about 1 in 5 that was worth keeping. If they weren't blurry, they were dark without flash and if I used flash my family looked possessed. I could pick up my Razr and click away. Now I still had a few bad ones with it, but so many more usable pics all, without glowing eyes.

I have never had an issue with glowing eyes with any prior camera phones. So yes, point, click, done in a real life situation this camera is not. If I want to be a photographer and take staged pics of fruit and panoramas I will grab a real camera. But I want a camera phone. One where I can pull it out of my pocket and point, click, send at a moments notice without messing with exposure times and taking half a dozen pics so I can get one worth keeping. I would take some red/glowing eye remover software over all the other software they have on this phone.

So far I've found it easy to take pics of people that I'm happy with. I almost never use flash and almost always am lazy and keep the camera on auto. But, maybe I'm just not bothered by whatever it is you're seeing. Here are these sample photos, with the two in the restaurant being in rather dim light, but I still got away without using flash. I'm happy with these photos for coming from a cell phone camera with no fiddling or post-processing.

 

[vlad0]

Well the article clearly states that PureView is possible on WP but not in next 2-3-4 years in the form of a classic <200g phone. So the options are to wait for the technology advancement until 2015-2017 and then make such a phone or release the competitor to Galaxy Camera in the form of a smartcam this year which I would put my bet on...

I highly doubt that... it would defeat the whole purpose of the PureView project. The EOS will be a smartphone for sure

But let's say that it was in fact just a stand alone camera.. what OS would it be running on ?

 

[anon(5370748)]

I just want to know the secret to taking photos, like the above cat, all the time. Here is one shot that I had hoped would have come out better:

https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=2CCF32E3673E856F!1409&authkey=!AE5Z0q5QhqnNR14

I thought it scene was beautiful but when I look at the photo it hurts my eyes. It is blurry. It's like it is out of focus.

Anyway, thank you all again for the help. I do agree that it does take great low-light photos but I would like just a tad sharper images that don't look out of focus.

Two tips for this one. First off, it looks like you're getting bad flaring again which is turning the left half of your image a weird color and is probably contributing to the blurriness you're seeing. Lens flare produces a visual "film" over the part of the image affected which is unwanted most of the time (unless you're an Instagram filter fiend...*rimshot!*) I've seen a few other people on the board that were getting a lot of flaring in various lighting conditions that I know my phone wouldn't have, and I think at least one of them exchanged it with a different unit that didn't have that issue. It's also possible that you're once again at a bad angle to your light source. You could try adjusting your angle so the sun or any bright light source isn't at an edge of the frame. This is the second photo I've seen of yours with flaring (cat sitting up was the other) - I'd be curious to see more of the ones you're unhappy with to see if this is causing the problem.

Second is your position in relation to the foreground objects. Two things affect the depth of field - your relation to the object in focus, and then that object's relation to anything behind it. The closer you are to your object in focus, the more out of focus anything behind that object will be. I would have taken a few steps back from your position so the brush in the lower right wasn't as close, and then made sure to focus on something way out in the background. Landscapes are trickier with wide-open f/2 lenses than they are with a dedicated camera that you can stop down to f/11 or f/16, which greatly increases the depth of field and keeps more stuff in focus.

Bonus tip: All small/relatively cheap lenses are noticeably sharper in the middle than they are on the edges. "Corner sharpness" is a prized trait and selling point in more expensive dedicated lenses. When I'm shooting landscapes or anything where I want everything in focus with a phone now, I try to leave a lot of room around the edges to do a center crop to get rid of the distortion/blurriness on the edges (the 920 seems to have that problem more on one side of the lens than the other).

 

[anon(5370748)]

http://forums.windowscentral.com/nokia-lumia-920/207282-lens-flare-lumia-920-a.html

When you take a night shot with streetlights in it, do you get this kind of thing going on?

 

[uselessrobot]

The camera on the Lumia 920 is one of the easiest I've ever used. I set white balance and that's it. Even with the flash off there's not much I need to worry about.

Quality is consistently good, but obviously I wouldn't be using this thing for more serious photography. But then I'd be using a DSLR or a four thirds.

 

[barareklam]

I want to say that somehow I had bigger expectations myself regarding L920. I can only speak for myself, but my previous phone was Nokia N8 which had bigger sensor, xenon flash and 12 Mpix. Thus dissapointment. With time I learned what can be done with L920 and I am not complaining any more. Picutres are not as good as N8 pictures, simply as that. After portico they are better. My pictures are about same quality as karmamule's samples.
Install HD photo viewer app which is much better then default windows phone 8 photo viewer, that app shows pictures as they are and in full resolution, which is not the case with default viewer.
And finally when you want some joy, install ProShot app, put a phone on tripod and take some pictures with 4 seconds exposure and you will be happy for a moment. I can take a picture of a stars with four seconds exposure and for a phone it is relly good.
Post your pictures here so we can see and try to recreate same thing and help you if needed.
And once again, phone is not a dslr, maybe your expectations are high like mine was in the beggining.

 

[congusano]

Honestly, what got me was that with such a wide open lens f/2.0 and with OIS, I thought images would be less blurry and sharp. Not as much as I had hoped.
Sure, I can take a picture of a pretty dark room, but nothing in the room can be moving, at all.

I have an almost 3 year old son who is constantly on the move. Unless he is outside in the glaring sun, indoor shots almost always have some little amount of blur to them.


Now, video with this phone REALLY impresses me.

 

[anon(5370748)]

Honestly, what got me was that with such a wide open lens f/2.0 and with OIS, I thought images would be less blurry and sharp. Not as much as I had hoped.
Sure, I can take a picture of a pretty dark room, but nothing in the room can be moving, at all.

I have an almost 3 year old son who is constantly on the move. Unless he is outside in the glaring sun, indoor shots almost always have some little amount of blur to them.

The max aperture of lens is only meaningful when you're comparing two systems with similar-sized sensors. An f/2 lens on a tiny cameraphone sensor isn't going to pick up anywhere near as much light as an f/2 lens on a four thirds or APS-C or full frame sensor. Less light means slower shutter speeds, which means less ability to stop motion. OIS is good for combating shaky hands and other twitchy movements - it doesn't let more light in and it doesn't slow down your target object. It works well for keeping video motion smooth, but it's not very useful for stills on a wide-angle lens. Phone sensors aren't good enough for indoor motion photography without a flash. You need a larger sensor for that.

 

[eortizr]

just accept the fact that the Lumia 920 camera is not on par with all the hype that was given to it. The only thing worth to mention on that camera is OIS, besides that any other camera phone in flagship devices is much better than the one in the Lumia 920 (GS3 and iPhone are much better)

 

[JustToClarify]

I highly doubt that... it would defeat the whole purpose of the PureView project. The EOS will be a smartphone for sure

But let's say that it was in fact just a stand alone camera.. what OS would it be running on ?

WP8 I guess, the same way Galaxy Cam is running Android.

Now I don't deny they aren't able to produce smartphone with that technology, but difference between smartphone and usable smartphone(which would be mainly used like a cameraphone) is night and day. What if they release a 250g brick that wouldn't last half a day and will overheat on a sunny day like crazy?!

 

[Nikumba]

I think if you take the photo with tapping the screen it focuses on the point where you tapped the screen, where as if you press the hardware button I think it focus on the whole scene if that makes sense.

 

[anon(5370748)]

I think if you take the photo with tapping the screen it focuses on the point where you tapped the screen, where as if you press the hardware button I think it focus on the whole scene if that makes sense.

The hardware button focuses on the center of the frame in the area marked by the reticle. If the whole scene is in focus, that's only because the closest object to you is far enough away that it's still sharp when the camera is focused on "infinity". When you tap the screen it does focus where you tap.