Why do people think that Windows 10 on ARM can save Surface Phone?

[aj173]

I already have full Windows 10 on my Lumia 1520. It's called RDPing through my desktop. It's nice to have full W10 on my phone in a few very specific circumstances, but overall, I fail to see how this will add anything to the mobile experience. It's nothing that great. I also fail to see how leveraging the desktop user base will do anything to bring missing phone-centric apps to Windows.

I hate to go full Thurott on everybody, but I'm just wondering what people are seeing that I'm not. As somebody who's used full W10 on a phone, it just doesn't seem like a savior to me.

 

[techiez]

I already have full Windows 10 on my Lumia 1520. It's called RDPing through my desktop. It's nice to have full W10 on my phone in a few very specific circumstances, but overall, I fail to see how this will add anything to the mobile experience. It's nothing that great. I also fail to see how leveraging the desktop user base will do anything to bring missing phone-centric apps to Windows.

I hate to go full Thurott on everybody, but I'm just wondering what people are seeing that I'm not. As somebody who's used full W10 on a phone, it just doesn't seem like a savior to me.

Agreed, and probably MS already understands this, most likely they want to pitch the Windows on Arm devices in niche categories with enterprise focus, like PDAs, handhelds and other mobile devices to be used by field staff with custom developed applications. Enterprises want such devices. However its a fan fantasy that surface phone will be MS comeback to consumer mobile space, and the lack of apps will be negated by presence of desktop apps, I havent seen any logical reasoning so far just noise that why will not ppl want a full desktop on mobile.

only developer in interest in UWP can save windows mobile and it is not going to happen with the help of WoA.

I do believe the rumors that the so called surface phone or any other mobile device will not have WoA but a different version similar to current W10M as it makes more sense.

 

[covfefe]

Docking. Dock your phone at work. Dock into your car's entertainment system. Dock on a plane. Dock on a train. Dock in your house. Dock with a mouse. Dock it here. Dock it there. You can almost dock it anywhere.

 

[anon(50597)]

Docking. Dock your phone at work. Dock into your car's entertainment system. Dock on a plane. Dock on a train. Dock in your house. Dock with a mouse. Dock it here. Dock it there. You can almost dock it anywhere.

Maybe in 20 years or so, when all those places have docks.

 

[Williaml99]

What Surface Phone?

 

[Elky64]

I see no point in MS trying to replicate the desktop experience on mobile, in my opinion they need to stick to the K-I-S-S rule, or at least they should have. Besides the fact working on such a small device for a period of time would become such a pain (imo), just don't think technology is there yet where I'd be sustainable.

 

[Joe920]

I hate to go full Thurott on everybody, but I'm just wondering what people are seeing that I'm not. As somebody who's used full W10 on a phone, it just doesn't seem like a savior to me.

I asked a while back what people would do differently with WoA, and the responses don't really show anything that would sway the common user imo. Personally I'd love it for docking and use with audio peripherals, and I can see the enterprise market going for it, but the average user not so much.

https://forums.windowscentral.com/windows-10-mobile/451045-what-would-you-do-windows-10-arm.html

 

[fatclue_98]

Docking. Dock your phone at work. Dock into your car's entertainment system. Dock on a plane. Dock on a train. Dock in your house. Dock with a mouse. Dock it here. Dock it there. You can almost dock it anywhere.

Dr. Seuss in da house!!

 

[AndyHolliday123]

I already have full Windows 10 on my Lumia 1520. It's called RDPing through my desktop. It's nice to have full W10 on my phone in a few very specific circumstances, but overall, I fail to see how this will add anything to the mobile experience. It's nothing that great. I also fail to see how leveraging the desktop user base will do anything to bring missing phone-centric apps to Windows.

I hate to go full Thurott on everybody, but I'm just wondering what people are seeing that I'm not. As somebody who's used full W10 on a phone, it just doesn't seem like a savior to me.

Apps. If you can run say bluestacks and install any Android app then the os has a good chance. If you can't install Android or ios apps then phones running Windows are McDoomed simple as that.

 

[AbstractKiller]

Full feature support would be the main benefit. The core kernel/OS would receive frequent updates.

Where those features/updates benefit a CShell enabled UI/feature/function then the benefit would be felt on mobile at the same time as the Desktop/Tablet/Xbox/IoT equivalent.

There seems to be a complete misunderstanding of the convergence of OneCore and the purpose of 'Windows on Arm' and Adaptable CShell.

Cshell is what you see - the UI/UX User Interface/Experience. Cshell is an interpretive layer that sits on top of the core/kernel exactly the same as the existing Shell, but the fuss is all about how this new adaptable shell is context-aware and will shift to fit the display/interface at any given moment.

As a 'traditional' mobile it would look and function exactly as Windows 10 Mobile currently does - plug in a screen and *magic* it's Windows 10 Desktop (assuming WoA and Cshell ever arrive in full).

Windows on ARM is pivotal in the above being possible on a mobile device (without a x86/x64 processor).

Windows on ARM introduces multiple emulation, kernel and driver-level interfaces, or in laymans terms allows these various parts of the windows system, it's hardware and software to communicate. Intel and AMD based x86/x64 processors communicate in a completely different language to the ARM-based processors common in tablets, IoT devices and smartphones.


Neither Windows on ARM or CShell are a magic bullet on their own - the combination of these development (if ever released to phone) would ensure the future development of the platform and extend its' feature-set.


The sad, insulting, truth to all this is that Microsoft have tested WoA - it works (*on existing sod*ing 820 chipsets, cough 950, cough Elite X3*), they have already accidentally released a mobile build that includes CShell, but they refuse to say diddly-squat about mobile, give any indication of commitment and leave us all to wish, pray, attack each other and the Windows Mobile Insider and Mobile communities implode.

 

[nik mourouzis]

I already have full Windows 10 on my Lumia 1520. It's called RDPing through my desktop. It's nice to have full W10 on my phone in a few very specific circumstances, but overall, I fail to see how this will add anything to the mobile experience. It's nothing that great. I also fail to see how leveraging the desktop user base will do anything to bring missing phone-centric apps to Windows.

I hate to go full Thurott on everybody, but I'm just wondering what people are seeing that I'm not. As somebody who's used full W10 on a phone, it just doesn't seem like a savior to me.

Maybe ms is seeing or possibly developing something we can't see yet. I doubt it, but when they brought the surface it was something completely new.

 

[Donny James]

Full feature support would be the main benefit. The core kernel/OS would receive frequent updates.

Where those features/updates benefit a CShell enabled UI/feature/function then the benefit would be felt on mobile at the same time as the Desktop/Tablet/Xbox/IoT equivalent.

There seems to be a complete misunderstanding of the convergence of OneCore and the purpose of 'Windows on Arm' and Adaptable CShell.

Cshell is what you see - the UI/UX User Interface/Experience. Cshell is an interpretive layer that sits on top of the core/kernel exactly the same as the existing Shell, but the fuss is all about how this new adaptable shell is context-aware and will shift to fit the display/interface at any given moment.

As a 'traditional' mobile it would look and function exactly as Windows 10 Mobile currently does - plug in a screen and *magic* it's Windows 10 Desktop (assuming WoA and Cshell ever arrive in full).

Windows on ARM is pivotal in the above being possible on a mobile device (without a x86/x64 processor).

Windows on ARM introduces multiple emulation, kernel and driver-level interfaces, or in laymans terms allows these various parts of the windows system, it's hardware and software to communicate. Intel and AMD based x86/x64 processors communicate in a completely different language to the ARM-based processors common in tablets, IoT devices and smartphones.


Neither Windows on ARM or CShell are a magic bullet on their own - the combination of these development (if ever released to phone) would ensure the future development of the platform and extend its' feature-set.


The sad, insulting, truth to all this is that Microsoft have tested WoA - it works (*on existing sod*ing 820 chipsets, cough 950, cough Elite X3*), they have already accidentally released a mobile build that includes CShell, but they refuse to say diddly-squat about mobile, give any indication of commitment and leave us all to wish, pray, attack each other and the Windows Mobile Insider and Mobile communities implode.

Great comment. I couldn't have said it better. But to answer your last paragraph. Microsoft doesn't want to invest the time and money to fully build out a non buggy version of the OS for he Elite x3 and 950 since the user base is so small. They also did all they could do to get the user base to where it is now. So they created this situation on purpose. The demo video we saw on CSHell here on windows central they did say it was very buggy. With the cost of development and time, I think they'd rather just focus on the future than the past.

 

[Peter Libbrecht]

Wireless docking, like miracast, but more performant

 

[Xsled]

It isn't really about a 'phone' for MS anymore. Sure, they will build a device to resemble what we see as a phone today, but that is just a reference point just as the Surface line already is today. It is about having windows on any screen size and any form factor. The devices that will come from that will depend on market demand, just like the pc space.

 

[FearL0rd]

I already have full Windows 10 on my Lumia 1520. It's called RDPing through my desktop. It's nice to have full W10 on my phone in a few very specific circumstances, but overall, I fail to see how this will add anything to the mobile experience. It's nothing that great. I also fail to see how leveraging the desktop user base will do anything to bring missing phone-centric apps to Windows.

I hate to go full Thurott on everybody, but I'm just wondering what people are seeing that I'm not. As somebody who's used full W10 on a phone, it just doesn't seem like a savior to me.

no I don't trust on MS anymore for mobile.

 

[Asif Shadab Malick]

It wont. But thd world exists upon hope. And windows phone fans are a part of it too. Hope. Shawshank redemption.

 

[epakrat75]

I already have full Windows 10 on my Lumia 1520. It's called RDPing through my desktop. I'm just wondering what people are seeing that I'm not. As somebody who's used full W10 on a phone, it just doesn't seem like a savior to me.

What you've done has been possible since the iPhone. I did it. RDP is not something everyone is aware of or knows how to use. It is a barrier to cross.

On the other hand, being able to install real Windows apps directly from the Windows store is something that people won't have problem with because many have already been trained to do it. Apple has only done this on their Desktop OS while MS will be the first to do it on both desktop and their mobile platform. That's big IMO.

However you've probably never natively run full Windows 10 on a Windows 10 phone unless you're an insider. There are many advantages to running a native app vs remotely running one on an actual computer. You can't run apps offline if you're using RDP and you're always at the mercy of whatever network your on. If you're on your own, you might be ok but outside the internet is hardly infallible. Lol.

Whether it will be a savior or not will be about what existing barriers are broken down, whether the performance / latency improvements as well as direct access to otherwise unavailable hardware will be used in beneficial ways. Windows already has the largest software catalog of any OS and bringing that to a mobile platform has the potential to be HUGE.

Do you prefer to use a website for a particular service on your mobile device or it's native app? Why?

 

[pallentx]

It absolutely wont be what the enthusiasts hope. The dream of Windows on phones as a legitimate 3rd consumer platform choice is done. Its over. I hate that because its still my favorite OS, but its reality.

True, its not "dead, dead". There will be small-ish touch devices that run windows. They will be niche devices, mostly enterprise oriented. They aren't going to be anything that will resurrect the dream of Windows being a good 3rd consumer phone option. They wont sell in big numbers. They wont get significant developer support. They don't change the consumer landscape as we know it.

 

[Asif Shadab Malick]

btw, most of the time i try to pist something on WC, y do i get this error mesg: "No DrupalSession".

 

[Vittorio Vaselli]

I already have full Windows 10 on my Lumia 1520. It's called RDPing through my desktop. It's nice to have full W10 on my phone in a few very specific circumstances, but overall, I fail to see how this will add anything to the mobile experience. It's nothing that great. I also fail to see how leveraging the desktop user base will do anything to bring missing phone-centric apps to Windows.

I hate to go full Thurott on everybody, but I'm just wondering what people are seeing that I'm not. As somebody who's used full W10 on a phone, it just doesn't seem like a savior to me.

Having desktop Windows on phone will not help, that the reason it will never happen. Is something made up by blogs and fans.