07-23-2015 02:39 PM
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  1. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Two words - Wal Mart
    That is if Walmart decides to carry flagship Windows Phones. They might just continue selling budget models. Large chain stores also limit their stock to products that are good sellers.
    07-10-2015 03:36 PM
  2. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    Two words - Wal Mart
    How the heck is that a solution? Wal-Mart (along with Best Buy, Target, and the rest) are just go-betweens for the carriers. If the complaint is that AT&T employees know nothing about the Windows Phones that they sell, how in the world is getting a Wal-Mart employee to explain things the solution?
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    07-10-2015 03:56 PM
  3. mjperry51's Avatar
    That is if Walmart decides to carry flagship Windows Phones. They might just continue selling budget models. Large chain stores also limit their stock to products that are good sellers.
    True; then there are other potential venues for the higher-end devices. My point being there are plenty of options other than Microsoft stores...
    07-10-2015 03:57 PM
  4. mmcpher's Avatar
    It could be even worse. Lumia sales are 10 million per quarter worldwide, if sales fall to 5 million or 1 million per quarter, developers could consider the platform dead.

    Besides, Microsoft already sells phones through their stores and websites. Dropping carriers and other resellers would only reduce sales.
    Maybe this another manifestation of Nadella's purported Windows Mobile Death Wish, but even in the Microsoft Flagship stores, where they are making a major effort to feature MS products and dedicated OEM products, Windows Phones are almost a neglected afterthought, if thought at all has gone in to how are where they are displayed. It would be nice, if after 7/29/15, they trained their sales people to brandish Windows Phones and interact with the Surface line, the OEM laptops and the Xboxones.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    07-10-2015 04:22 PM
  5. RumoredNow's Avatar
    What other class of good is so tied down as phones? It's not going to come down to availability at carrier stores or nothing.

    It's been tried how long to get traction with the OS through US carriers? And what has that gotten? Minimal and stagnant results. If the carriers have so many conditions on what a phone can and can not have to sell in their store they should build their own phones.

    If Microsoft builds the phones pure to their vision, the carriers should have the option to take the phones as they are. It is more than enough with the monkey business that US carriers engage in. "Yeah, we'll take that model so long as no one else in the US can have it". Then they shove it to the back of the store and ignore it. Or worse yet, "Yeah, we'll take that model. But not as you have it configured, it should be made less functional with the following hardware downgrades..." And then they still shove it in the back of the store and ignore it.

    Look at these Bing Results for AT&T Lumia Promotion: https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...on&FORM=HDRSC3
    And this Results page for AT&T Samsung Promotion: https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...on&FORM=HDRSC3
    And AT&T iPhone Promotion: https://www.bing.com/images/search?q...on&FORM=HDRSC2

    Which one looks least current? Which one looks least like the carrier is engaged with the product and happy to stock/sell it?

    Continuing to present your product via partners that actively work against the OS will not get results. It's like trying to sell fresh healthy vegetables out of a pig trough filled with slops.

    The carriers have Americans conditioned to follow their sales model and it does not have to be that way.

    I'll say this, there is not a Microsoft within 3 hours of where I live and I'm more than happy to volunteer that Windows Phones be pulled from carrier stores if it means pandering to carrier idiocy. Some people will just have to sacrifice their convenience for the health and well being of the platform.

    There are other brick and mortar retail outlets that can stock and sell phones. Personally I've gotten my last I don't know how many phones off the internet including my undiluted Lumia 1520.3. The last time I bought a phone out of a carrier store for myself was probably 2005. I've had a lot of phones since then.

    Complaining that you won't get a phone unless it is in a carrier store is just playing into the stilted game the carriers have established in the US. Doing it their way has no benefit for the consumer. Americans need to disabuse themselves of the incorrect notion that somehow when a carrier provides you with a phone it saves you money and is also done out of some kindhearted and public service oriented motivation. When a shark sees you in the ocean and takes a bite out of your backside, that shark probably believes it is doing you a favor and that bite is owed him anyway.
    07-10-2015 04:57 PM
  6. mjperry51's Avatar
    How the heck is that a solution? Wal-Mart (along with Best Buy, Target, and the rest) are just go-betweens for the carriers. If the complaint is that AT&T employees know nothing about the Windows Phones that they sell, how in the world is getting a Wal-Mart employee to explain things the solution?
    Is it your position the only way Windows phones will sell is if there's a Windows Phone evangelist there to sell it? Elsewhere I'm calling out Microsoft for its marketing failures. Ultimately it's on Microsoft to get the message out. They're been relying on carrier stores -- that's been a big zero.
    07-10-2015 05:15 PM
  7. ScrubbyXD's Avatar
    How the heck is that a solution? Wal-Mart (along with Best Buy, Target, and the rest) are just go-betweens for the carriers. If the complaint is that AT&T employees know nothing about the Windows Phones that they sell, how in the world is getting a Wal-Mart employee to explain things the solution?
    You clearly do not know much about retail. If Microsoft approached these stores with the correct marketing kit and paid them for prime space you would see Windows Phone up front and center with whatever phones they wanted and without a carrier attached. Big retail is NOT beholden to the carriers by any shape or form. If a company shells out for a huge display in prime space they get what they want, including employee training.
    07-10-2015 06:50 PM
  8. a5cent's Avatar
    Still, like I said, yanking phones off of nationwide shelves and limiting them to major cities isn't going to solve a darned thing.
    Except it would, at the very least, solve the exclusivity issue. Want an L930 on ATT? You can have it. Want a L1520 on TM? You can have it.

    I don't know where this would leave Verizon and Verizon MVNO customers, but if you're with any other carrier, you can have any device you want, without worrying about carrier exclusivity deals restricting the device you want to a carrier you're not on.
    Last edited by a5cent; 07-10-2015 at 07:43 PM.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    07-10-2015 07:02 PM
  9. neo158's Avatar
    Microsoft need to be blunt with the carriers and just sell low-mid tier devices through them with four conditions:

    1. The carriers push Windows Phone on an equal footing with iOS and Android devices. Microsoft would have to provide the necessary training and tools for this.

    2. The phones must be unlocked with no carrier firmware. This would mean no carrier locked devices so any WP can be used on any network.

    3. There will be no carrier variant devices like the AT&T Lumia 1520 meaning that the phones would be one spec across ALL carriers.

    4. All updates come directly from Microsoft with no carrier testing.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    07-10-2015 07:03 PM
  10. mark233's Avatar
    cheer.gif
    RumoredNow likes this.
    07-10-2015 07:07 PM
  11. a5cent's Avatar
    Microsoft need to be blunt with the carriers and just sell low-mid tier devices through them with four conditions:

    1. The carriers push Windows Phone on an equal footing with iOS and Android devices. Microsoft would have to provide the necessary training and tools for this.

    2. The phones must be unlocked with no carrier firmware. This would mean no carrier locked devices so any WP can be used on any network.

    3. There will be no carrier variant devices like the AT&T Lumia 1520 meaning that the phones would be one spec across ALL carriers.

    4. All updates come directly from Microsoft with no carrier testing.
    If you're an MS representative, the only things such conditions will get you, is laughed out of the room. Unfortunately... :-/
    Laura Knotek and tgp like this.
    07-10-2015 07:30 PM
  12. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    You clearly do not know much about retail. If Microsoft approached these stores with the correct marketing kit and paid them for prime space you would see Windows Phone up front and center with whatever phones they wanted and without a carrier attached. Big retail is NOT beholden to the carriers by any shape or form. If a company shells out for a huge display in prime space they get what they want, including employee training.
    That's absolutely correct. It applies to food too, not just electronics.

    I was in Walmart about a month ago. The Nabisco guy was stocking the shelves and straightening up the display of the Nabisco cookies. Nabisco cookies are in a prominent location and at an easy to reach area. The products from lesser known brands are either on the bottom shelf or on the top shelf, where they're harder to see or reach. Nabisco pays Walmart for that nice spot. It also has its own employees, not the Walmart employees, stock and organize its products on the shelves.

    Sent from my rooted Nexus 7 (2013) using Tapatalk
    tgp, RumoredNow, libra89 and 1 others like this.
    07-10-2015 07:41 PM
  13. tgp's Avatar
    If you're an MS representative, the only things such conditions will get you, is laughed out of the room. Unfortunately... :-/
    That's the problem; Microsoft cannot tell the carriers what to do. The carriers are in the driver's seat.

    Sent from whatever device I happen to be using today using Tapatalk
    Laura Knotek and a5cent like this.
    07-10-2015 07:52 PM
  14. hack14u's Avatar
    That's true. The question would be: how should Microsoft market its phones to consumers if selling directly without carrier involvement?

    Sent from my Moto X using Tapatalk
    They could also do some advertising along the lines of "tired of the runaround that your carrier gives you? Buy straight from MS and save some bucks", or something like that.
    07-10-2015 08:05 PM
  15. hack14u's Avatar
    That's the problem; Microsoft cannot tell the carriers what to do. The carriers are in the driver's seat.

    Sent from whatever device I happen to be using today using Tapatalk
    People need to take the carriers out of the drivers seat and put them in the backseat when it comes to devices.
    neo158, RumoredNow and a5cent like this.
    07-10-2015 08:06 PM
  16. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    People need to take the carriers out of the drivers seat and put them in the backseat when it comes to devices.
    Easier said than done when it comes to changing how most Americans shop for phones.

    Sent from my rooted Nexus 7 (2013) using Tapatalk
    a5cent likes this.
    07-10-2015 08:08 PM
  17. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    They could also do some advertising along the lines of "tired of the runaround that your carrier gives you? Buy straight from MS and save some bucks", or something like that.
    If Microsoft is going to do that, it better have an absolutely reliable system in place to ensure that customers are able to order what they want and get the product quickly. Any glitches would kill any chance of selling products, since that statement would guarantee that no carriers would bother stocking Windows Phones. Microsoft would have to do it alone.

    Given the delays in getting repairs done since Microsoft took over Nokia Care, that might not be possible. People have mentioned waiting over 2 months for repairs from Microsoft. When Nokia handled repairs, it only took about 2 weeks.

    Sent from my rooted Nexus 7 (2013) using Tapatalk
    a5cent likes this.
    07-10-2015 08:14 PM
  18. neo158's Avatar
    That's the problem; Microsoft cannot tell the carriers what to do. The carriers are in the driver's seat.

    Sent from whatever device I happen to be using today using Tapatalk
    That's exactly the problem though and look where that's got US WP market share. The carriers in the US control everything, they have way to much power.
    RumoredNow and a5cent like this.
    07-10-2015 08:20 PM
  19. Dr_8820's Avatar
    Anyone remember this?

    http://readwrite.com/2013/07/11/att-...arriers-stores
    Sent from my Nokia Lumia 1520 using Tapatalk
    07-10-2015 08:23 PM
  20. hack14u's Avatar
    If Microsoft is going to do that, it better have an absolutely reliable system in place to ensure that customers are able to order what they want and get the product quickly. Any glitches would kill any chance of selling products, since that statement would guarantee that no carriers would bother stocking Windows Phones. Microsoft would have to do it alone.

    Given the delays in getting repairs done since Microsoft took over Nokia Care, that might not be possible. People have mentioned waiting over 2 months for repairs from Microsoft. When Nokia handled repairs, it only took about 2 weeks.

    Sent from my rooted Nexus 7 (2013) using Tapatalk
    Ya, just throwing ideas out there. I want MS to succeed at this so much.
    07-10-2015 08:25 PM
  21. neo158's Avatar
    People need to take the carriers out of the drivers seat and put them in the backseat when it comes to devices.
    Exactly, you should be able to choose your device then your network. Not choose your network based on the devices they have.
    07-10-2015 08:27 PM
  22. mary beth hale's Avatar
    Ya, just throwing ideas out there. I want MS to succeed at this so much.
    We all do
    Laura Knotek and RumoredNow like this.
    07-10-2015 08:29 PM
  23. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Exactly, you should be able to choose your device then your network. Not choose your network based on the devices they have.
    Most people do choose their network first, especially if they live in areas where only one provider offers adequate coverage. That's fine if one likes iPhone or Samsung Galaxy. It's not so good if one likes Lumia, Sony or some other less popular brands.

    Sent from my rooted Nexus 7 (2013) using Tapatalk
    07-10-2015 08:38 PM
  24. neo158's Avatar
    Most people do choose their network first, especially if they live in areas where only one provider offers adequate coverage. That's fine if one likes iPhone or Samsung Galaxy. It's not so good if one likes Lumia, Sony or some other less popular brands.

    Sent from my rooted Nexus 7 (2013) using Tapatalk
    Not really, I can go into an independent store called Carphone Warehouse and pick the phone I want and then choose the network I want or I can just take the phone.
    07-10-2015 09:24 PM
  25. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Not really, I can go into an independent store called Carphone Warehouse and pick the phone I want and then choose the network I want or I can just take the phone.
    We don't have anything like that in the US.

    The issues in this thread probably only exist in the US and Canada (possibly North America - I'm not sure if there are carrier exclusives in Mexico).

    The rest of the world doesn't have these carrier exclusives.

    Sent from my rooted Nexus 7 (2013) using Tapatalk
    RumoredNow, libra89 and neo158 like this.
    07-10-2015 09:50 PM
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