Kill 'em. Kill 'em With FIRE!!!

[a5cent]

Microsoft need to be blunt with the carriers and just sell low-mid tier devices through them with four conditions:

1. The carriers push Windows Phone on an equal footing with iOS and Android devices. Microsoft would have to provide the necessary training and tools for this.

2. The phones must be unlocked with no carrier firmware. This would mean no carrier locked devices so any WP can be used on any network.

3. There will be no carrier variant devices like the AT&T Lumia 1520 meaning that the phones would be one spec across ALL carriers.

4. All updates come directly from Microsoft with no carrier testing.

If you're an MS representative, the only things such conditions will get you, is laughed out of the room. Unfortunately... :-/

 

[Laura Knotek]

You clearly do not know much about retail. If Microsoft approached these stores with the correct marketing kit and paid them for prime space you would see Windows Phone up front and center with whatever phones they wanted and without a carrier attached. Big retail is NOT beholden to the carriers by any shape or form. If a company shells out for a huge display in prime space they get what they want, including employee training.

That's absolutely correct. It applies to food too, not just electronics.

I was in Walmart about a month ago. The Nabisco guy was stocking the shelves and straightening up the display of the Nabisco cookies. Nabisco cookies are in a prominent location and at an easy to reach area. The products from lesser known brands are either on the bottom shelf or on the top shelf, where they're harder to see or reach. Nabisco pays Walmart for that nice spot. It also has its own employees, not the Walmart employees, stock and organize its products on the shelves.

Sent from my rooted Nexus 7 (2013) using Tapatalk

 

[tgp]

If you're an MS representative, the only things such conditions will get you, is laughed out of the room. Unfortunately... :-/

That's the problem; Microsoft cannot tell the carriers what to do. The carriers are in the driver's seat.

Sent from whatever device I happen to be using today using Tapatalk

 

[hack14u]

That's true. The question would be: how should Microsoft market its phones to consumers if selling directly without carrier involvement?

Sent from my Moto X using Tapatalk

They could also do some advertising along the lines of "tired of the runaround that your carrier gives you? Buy straight from MS and save some bucks", or something like that.

 

[hack14u]

That's the problem; Microsoft cannot tell the carriers what to do. The carriers are in the driver's seat.

Sent from whatever device I happen to be using today using Tapatalk

People need to take the carriers out of the drivers seat and put them in the backseat when it comes to devices.

 

[Laura Knotek]

People need to take the carriers out of the drivers seat and put them in the backseat when it comes to devices.

Easier said than done when it comes to changing how most Americans shop for phones.

Sent from my rooted Nexus 7 (2013) using Tapatalk

 

[Laura Knotek]

They could also do some advertising along the lines of "tired of the runaround that your carrier gives you? Buy straight from MS and save some bucks", or something like that.

If Microsoft is going to do that, it better have an absolutely reliable system in place to ensure that customers are able to order what they want and get the product quickly. Any glitches would kill any chance of selling products, since that statement would guarantee that no carriers would bother stocking Windows Phones. Microsoft would have to do it alone.

Given the delays in getting repairs done since Microsoft took over Nokia Care, that might not be possible. People have mentioned waiting over 2 months for repairs from Microsoft. When Nokia handled repairs, it only took about 2 weeks.

Sent from my rooted Nexus 7 (2013) using Tapatalk

 

[neo158]

That's the problem; Microsoft cannot tell the carriers what to do. The carriers are in the driver's seat.

Sent from whatever device I happen to be using today using Tapatalk

That's exactly the problem though and look where that's got US WP market share. The carriers in the US control everything, they have way to much power.

 

[Dr_8820]

Anyone remember this?

http://readwrite.com/2013/07/11/att...-1020-will-be-a-hero-device-a-carriers-stores
Sent from my Nokia Lumia 1520 using Tapatalk

 

[hack14u]

If Microsoft is going to do that, it better have an absolutely reliable system in place to ensure that customers are able to order what they want and get the product quickly. Any glitches would kill any chance of selling products, since that statement would guarantee that no carriers would bother stocking Windows Phones. Microsoft would have to do it alone.

Given the delays in getting repairs done since Microsoft took over Nokia Care, that might not be possible. People have mentioned waiting over 2 months for repairs from Microsoft. When Nokia handled repairs, it only took about 2 weeks.

Sent from my rooted Nexus 7 (2013) using Tapatalk

Ya, just throwing ideas out there. I want MS to succeed at this so much.

 

[neo158]

People need to take the carriers out of the drivers seat and put them in the backseat when it comes to devices.

Exactly, you should be able to choose your device then your network. Not choose your network based on the devices they have.

 

[mary beth hale]

Ya, just throwing ideas out there. I want MS to succeed at this so much.

We all do

 

[Laura Knotek]

Exactly, you should be able to choose your device then your network. Not choose your network based on the devices they have.

Most people do choose their network first, especially if they live in areas where only one provider offers adequate coverage. That's fine if one likes iPhone or Samsung Galaxy. It's not so good if one likes Lumia, Sony or some other less popular brands.

Sent from my rooted Nexus 7 (2013) using Tapatalk

 

[neo158]

Most people do choose their network first, especially if they live in areas where only one provider offers adequate coverage. That's fine if one likes iPhone or Samsung Galaxy. It's not so good if one likes Lumia, Sony or some other less popular brands.

Sent from my rooted Nexus 7 (2013) using Tapatalk

Not really, I can go into an independent store called Carphone Warehouse and pick the phone I want and then choose the network I want or I can just take the phone.

 

[Laura Knotek]

Not really, I can go into an independent store called Carphone Warehouse and pick the phone I want and then choose the network I want or I can just take the phone.

We don't have anything like that in the US.

The issues in this thread probably only exist in the US and Canada (possibly North America - I'm not sure if there are carrier exclusives in Mexico).

The rest of the world doesn't have these carrier exclusives.

Sent from my rooted Nexus 7 (2013) using Tapatalk

 

[Keith Wallace]

Is it your position the only way Windows phones will sell is if there's a Windows Phone evangelist there to sell it? Elsewhere I'm calling out Microsoft for its marketing failures. Ultimately it's on Microsoft to get the message out. They're been relying on carrier stores -- that's been a big zero.

At this point, it pretty much needs that. Windows Phone still lacks the software capabilities of competing platforms. It's been almost 3 years, and the app issues aren't drastically better than when the platform launched in 2012. Now, Windows Phone has the air of failure around it. It's cemented itself as the outcast with no apps to use, even if it's only a half-truth. Just getting most of the apps to the platform and putting out phones won't do nearly enough. We're so far into the existence of smartphones that people are not only entrenched in platforms, but realistically looking at their long-term advancement/replacement (be it wearables, VR, AR, or something else). You can't just have the devices out there to get them to sell. They both have to match the competition AND give a compelling reason to abandon a platform you might have hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars in software purchases spent.

Windows 10 has some of that potential, with things like Continuum, game streaming, and the overall ability to get a comparable experience from PC to phone (which even Apple and Google haven't properly managed). However, those platform-defining features mean nothing without the missing software holes (be it Snapchat or some other social media fad or some gaming fad or simply getting first-party iterations of things like YouTube). EVEN THEN, you need to show and explain to potential consumers what they get if they switch. So, yes, you then need those evangelists, if you want to call them that. It's not like the average carrier/retail employee knows anything about multiple platforms, let alone has the ability to properly represent Windows Phone in a positive light.

You clearly do not know much about retail. If Microsoft approached these stores with the correct marketing kit and paid them for prime space you would see Windows Phone up front and center with whatever phones they wanted and without a carrier attached. Big retail is NOT beholden to the carriers by any shape or form. If a company shells out for a huge display in prime space they get what they want, including employee training.

You don't just get to say "you don't understand retail, Microsoft can buy its way into homes," and be right. It's not just marketing. It's software availability on the platform. It's customer preference. Microsoft and Nokia threw a lot of weight behind WP8's marketing. Microsoft tried to throw money at developers to help with the application shortages. It didn't work. Sure, money talks. It also only talks so loudly. You can only train employees so hard on selling an incomplete platform to customers expecting every app at once.

So, continue with the "throw money and fix it," stuff. It isn't a cure-all. It didn't get apps to the platform, even when the marketing was good and got people's attention. The software's still going to have to sort itself. Oh, and don't think that a "training package" is going to solve the issue that most of those retail store phone salespeople are dumb as rocks, in many cases. Many of those stores (Best Buy, Wal-Mart) don't even have actual phones for people to try out in-store, just plastic dummy devices.

I'd love to hear some actual, detailed explanation of how throwing some dollars at Best Buy or Wal-Mart to train employees is REALLY going to solve things. In 2015, the problem isn't really an educational one for consumers. You're not trying to explain to them the nuances of smartphones anymore, even grandmas know how to use them. Now, it's a matter of being able to present a platform that gives a reason to switch, and marketing isn't the answer to that, it's software.

Except it would, at the very least, solve the exclusivity issue. Want an L930 on ATT? You can have it. Want a L1520 on TM? You can have it.

I don't know where this would leave Verizon and Verizon MVNO customers, but if you're with any other carrier, you can have any device you want, without worrying about carrier exclusivity deals restricting the device you want to a carrier you're not on.

You solve one issue to create one that's arguably bigger. Yeah, carrier exclusivity might end, but the platform's visibility to the common consumer would get slaughtered. People who don't have $600 to drop on a flagship on a whim lose the pay-as-you-go or subsidized agreement options. Regardless of the financial intelligence of those approaches, they are BY FAR the primary source of sales in the U.S. market. You can try to come back with a claim that Microsoft will revolutionize the market with that model, but it's pretty clear, based on the history of the platform, that it lacks the clout to pull such a thing off.

 

[ScrubbyXD]

You don't just get to say "you don't understand retail, Microsoft can buy its way into homes," and be right.

That is not what I said. You misread or misinterpreted what I said and ran with that. I said they can buy their way into front and center in retail. The issue this would solve is presence and availability, not education.

I also appreciate your assertion that I am most likely "Dumb as rocks" since I work in a store that sells phones.

 

[neo158]

We don't have anything like that in the US.

The issues in this thread probably only exist in the US and Canada (possibly North America - I'm not sure if there are carrier exclusives in Mexico).

The rest of the world doesn't have these carrier exclusives.

Sent from my rooted Nexus 7 (2013) using Tapatalk

That's the big problem in the US though, if you want a specific phone then you have no choice of carrier unless you buy an unlocked international device. Get rid of the carrier exclusives and it levels the playing field and gives consumers a choice and choice is exactly what the carriers don't want you to have.

 

[Krystianpants]

At this point, it pretty much needs that. Windows Phone still lacks the software capabilities of competing platforms. It's been almost 3 years, and the app issues aren't drastically better than when the platform launched in 2012. Now, Windows Phone has the air of failure around it. It's cemented itself as the outcast with no apps to use, even if it's only a half-truth. Just getting most of the apps to the platform and putting out phones won't do nearly enough. gives a reason to switch, and marketing isn't the answer to that, it's software.
f.

Keith look at android history. Took them a while to get apps and popular. Oems started pushing their stuff and it was everywhere in stores. And people buy stuff that is everywhere. Samsung has been wanting to leave android for a while and they own most of their market. Recent patent disputes have been settled with Microsoft and Samsung. Who knows what can come of that. Microsoft may make deals where companies don't pay the hardware patents they acquired from Nokia. Anything can happen so I would just go with the flow. Microsoft is trying to shift the pc paradigm. They know people have their faces in their phones all day. Turn the phone into a pc and a phone. Continuum is the start of that. I think that's their 2 year goal. They showcase it and like with hybrids, oems can take over. It's not a ridiculous idea. A lot of small usb pcs are even starting to come out

 

[neo158]

You solve one issue to create one that's arguably bigger. Yeah, carrier exclusivity might end, but the platform's visibility to the common consumer would get slaughtered. People who don't have $600 to drop on a flagship on a whim lose the pay-as-you-go or subsidized agreement options. Regardless of the financial intelligence of those approaches, they are BY FAR the primary source of sales in the U.S. market. You can try to come back with a claim that Microsoft will revolutionize the market with that model, but it's pretty clear, based on the history of the platform, that it lacks the clout to pull such a thing off.

Funny how that model actually works everywhere else in the world though, you want to drop ?600 on a new flagship then you can do that, you want a subsidised option then you can do that as well. That's the beauty of choice and that's the one thing that US carriers don't want anyone to have.