Kill 'em. Kill 'em With FIRE!!!

[Alienhead95]

Instead of cutting ties with carriers, I think they should fix the problem. Because i dont think people are going to go to the Microsoft store to buy phones, especially when they dont know windows phone exists. Carrier stores is unfortunately the place to sell phones because majority of them buy phones on contract.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Give the Flagship exclusively to one carrier and now not all the others want second best. Why should they? How much money do you think a carrier makes from a 520 or a 640? This is another reason why carriers need to be taken out of the equation. Too many games and too willing to limit your choices as a consumer when it comes to Windows Phone.

What kind of weirdo are you? You want to be forced to choose a carrier AND choose a phone? Why double the work for us poor consumers? I'm sure it's people like you that contribute to our overly complex automobile/gasoline situation. In a perfect world you would buy your car from your gas station. Sure that car would only run on that brand of gas and you would be severely limited in what cars you could buy, but it would be SOOOOO convenient.

 

[Krystianpants]

Microsoft will sell at Best Buy. A lot of people buy from them. I bought my first nokia 520 from best buy. Microsoft stores are popping up everywhere. Every mall here has an MS store.

If the new phones are indeed great and inspiring then chances are the carriers will come to Microsoft and Microsoft won't have to put up with exclusivity. The reason Microsoft got exclusivity is because they have no say in the mobile world, they either do what the carrier wants or they don't get promoted through the carrier.

Look at Apple, do you ever see exclusives? I haven't seen any. It's just deals carriers are giving away on their own. And if other oems start flooding the market with phones people will buy them.

It's a 2 tier approach. Android got popular because of the open nature and because OEMs decided to use it. And Apple got popular because of the High end well designed phones.

Microsoft is doing both. Free Windows mobile 10 for devices as well as building their own high end devices showcasing the tech.

 

[a5cent]

Instead of cutting ties with carriers, I think they should fix the problem.

There is no problem MS can fix. It's exactly the way carriers want it to be. You either play by carrier's rules, or you don't play... or you design a phone that is so popular, that carriers simply can't afford not to have it on offer. Only then can OEMs get out from under their thumbs.

 

[RumoredNow]

...you design a phone that is so popular, that carriers simply can't afford not to have it on offer. Only then can OEMs get out from under their thumbs.

"Hey (Sprint/Verizon/T-Mobile/AT&T) dude, I hear there is this new phone that like I can plug in and it totally is a computer with a big screen and a full QWERTY and mouse and stuff. I'd be totally stoked to have one of those man."

"Oh yeah, that Microsoft phone with Continuum. Sorry, fella, we don't have those."

"Oh my DOG! Why notsies?"

"We ummm... We told them that they had to make it show our carrier logo for 15 seconds every time it was docked or we would not carry it. Microsoft told us they wouldn't do that. We, uh, have that new Galaxy that is 12.0% thinner than the last one and breaks 27% easier. It's also marginally faster than the last one. If you game real hard you just might see the difference. And look, we got them to shove it full of our (Sprint/Verizon/T-Mobile/AT&T) WasteYourSpace[SUP]TM[/SUP] Suite of Useless Apps that have two cool features out of 27 Apps, but you have to pay a monthly premium or overpriced phone contract to get anything useful out of."

"Chaaaaw, What a bunch of loosers you guys are. I'm gonna go down the road to (Sprint/Verizon/T-Mobile/AT&T). I gotta have that bad boy Continuumation dealy."

"Well, uh, here's the thing. None of the carriers have it. Nobody could get their deal through to make it all theirs and screw over the vast majority of Americans from ever obtaining one..."

"LOLz. Thanks anyway (Sprint/Verizon/T-Mobile/AT&T) carrier wretch. It's like the 21[SUP]st[/SUP] century and stuff. People know how to shop around on the internet and find what they want. The economy is totally all frugal and stuff, so like I totally know everybody is fighting for my dinero. I'll hit the web. I'm sure Best Buy or Walmart or someone has it. I'll see ya in a couple months when I come back in to close out my contract. Didja know they got these mvnos that like totally rip you jagwads a new one when it comes to cutting my costs? Laters, carrier lame-o."

 

[mary beth hale]

Thanks for one of the most interesting and thought provoking threads on this site. I know it's a complex issue. On a personal note...no carrier contract for 4 years or ever again.

 

[jlzimmerman]

"Hey (Sprint/Verizon/T-Mobile/AT&T) dude, I hear there is this new phone that like I can plug in and it totally is a computer with a big screen and a full QWERTY and mouse and stuff. I'd be totally stoked to have one of those man."

"Oh yeah, that Microsoft phone with Continuum. Sorry, fella, we don't have those."

"Oh my DOG! Why notsies?"

"We ummm... We told them that they had to make it show our carrier logo for 15 seconds every time it was docked or we would not carry it. Microsoft told us they wouldn't do that. We, uh, have that new Galaxy that is 12.0% thinner than the last one and breaks 27% easier. It's also marginally faster than the last one. If you game real hard you just might see the difference. And look, we got them to shove it full of our (Sprint/Verizon/T-Mobile/AT&T) WasteYourSpace[SUP]TM[/SUP] Suite of Useless Apps that have two cool features out of 27 Apps, but you have to pay a monthly premium or overpriced phone contract to get anything useful out of."

"Chaaaaw, What a bunch of loosers you guys are. I'm gonna go down the road to (Sprint/Verizon/T-Mobile/AT&T). I gotta have that bad boy Continuumation dealy."

"Well, uh, here's the thing. None of the carriers have it. Nobody could get their deal through to make it all theirs and screw over the vast majority of Americans from ever obtaining one..."

"LOLz. Thanks anyway (Sprint/Verizon/T-Mobile/AT&T) carrier wretch. It's like the 21[SUP]st[/SUP] century and stuff. People know how to shop around on the internet and find what they want. The economy is totally all frugal and stuff, so like I totally know everybody is fighting for my dinero. I'll hit the web. I'm sure Best Buy or Walmart or someone has it. I'll see ya in a couple months when I come back in to close out my contract. Didja know they got these mvnos that like totally rip you jagwads a new one when it comes to cutting my costs? Laters, carrier lame-o."

I read this in my best Bill and Ted voice. Most excellent.

 

[worldspy99]

Frankly Microsoft has very little to lose.

Build a world phone - go ahead and put Verizon's CDMA bands in it. Sell online, in the stores, Amazon, WalMart, wherever. Manage updates (firmware & OS). Market the hell out of it, promoting the Windows 10 single platform benefits. Create your own momentum.

They're not getting where they want to be doing what they're doing now. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results. . .

Nexus works on VZW as well so this is doable but it is a tricky proposition.

 

[Keith Wallace]

I looked at the 640 XL variants that have pentaband 3G and over a dozen LTE bands and thought, wow, maybe Msft will go rogue and just sell world phones. That would be fantastic for the platform. All the hoops US carriers have consumers jumping through are OK if you are on Android and there are 16 phones to choose from at the carrier website or if you are Apple and can force your own way in. It killed WP in the US though.

Look at Icon. Look at 1520 and 830 being exclusive to ATT. It hinders the OS from proliferating.

But hiding the phones in a minute number of stores helps? I don't want the carrier-exclusive garbage to carry one, no one does. I also don't want to have to drive 90 minutes (the nearest MS Store's conservative driving time) to check out if I like a phone or not, then make a split-second decision or wait to make a second trip to throw $600 at a flagship phone. Regardless of carrier pricing structure, people will still prefer monthly payments they don't really notice to a $600, single-day purchase, when it comes to phones.

The exclusivity hurt a lot of models. I'd argue the 930/ICON was hurt the most, with the 1020 being another option (the 920 got variants on other carriers, and the 1520 had a /3 model that worked on T-Mobile, at least). After announcing AT&T as the premiere WP8 carrier, not putting out the 920's successor on that carrier did a lot of damage. The 930 (ICON) went to a carrier where many didn't really experience the platform (since the 928 was released 6 months after the 920 and right after the new Android flagships took a dump on it). The U.S. 920 owners who passionately supported WP8 at launch got nothing to upgrade to (beyond a niche 1520 and a pointless 830 ANTOHER 6 months later than it should have been).

Still, like I said, yanking phones off of nationwide shelves and limiting them to major cities isn't going to solve a darned thing.

 

[mjperry51]

But hiding the phones in a minute number of stores helps? I don't want the carrier-exclusive garbage to carry one, no one does. I also don't want to have to drive 90 minutes (the nearest MS Store's conservative driving time) to check out if I like a phone or not, then make a split-second decision or wait to make a second trip to throw $600 at a flagship phone. Regardless of carrier pricing structure, people will still prefer monthly payments they don't really notice to a $600, single-day purchase, when it comes to phones.

The exclusivity hurt a lot of models. I'd argue the 930/ICON was hurt the most, with the 1020 being another option (the 920 got variants on other carriers, and the 1520 had a /3 model that worked on T-Mobile, at least). After announcing AT&T as the premiere WP8 carrier, not putting out the 920's successor on that carrier did a lot of damage. The 930 (ICON) went to a carrier where many didn't really experience the platform (since the 928 was released 6 months after the 920 and right after the new Android flagships took a dump on it). The U.S. 920 owners who passionately supported WP8 at launch got nothing to upgrade to (beyond a niche 1520 and a pointless 830 ANTOHER 6 months later than it should have been).

Still, like I said, yanking phones off of nationwide shelves and limiting them to major cities isn't going to solve a darned thing.

Two words - Wal Mart

 

[Laura Knotek]

Two words - Wal Mart

That is if Walmart decides to carry flagship Windows Phones. They might just continue selling budget models. Large chain stores also limit their stock to products that are good sellers.

 

[Keith Wallace]

Two words - Wal Mart

How the heck is that a solution? Wal-Mart (along with Best Buy, Target, and the rest) are just go-betweens for the carriers. If the complaint is that AT&T employees know nothing about the Windows Phones that they sell, how in the world is getting a Wal-Mart employee to explain things the solution?

 

[mjperry51]

That is if Walmart decides to carry flagship Windows Phones. They might just continue selling budget models. Large chain stores also limit their stock to products that are good sellers.

True; then there are other potential venues for the higher-end devices. My point being there are plenty of options other than Microsoft stores...

 

[mmcpher]

It could be even worse. Lumia sales are 10 million per quarter worldwide, if sales fall to 5 million or 1 million per quarter, developers could consider the platform dead.

Besides, Microsoft already sells phones through their stores and websites. Dropping carriers and other resellers would only reduce sales.

Maybe this another manifestation of Nadella's purported Windows Mobile Death Wish, but even in the Microsoft Flagship stores, where they are making a major effort to feature MS products and dedicated OEM products, Windows Phones are almost a neglected afterthought, if thought at all has gone in to how are where they are displayed. It would be nice, if after 7/29/15, they trained their sales people to brandish Windows Phones and interact with the Surface line, the OEM laptops and the Xboxones.

 

[RumoredNow]

What other class of good is so tied down as phones? It's not going to come down to availability at carrier stores or nothing.

It's been tried how long to get traction with the OS through US carriers? And what has that gotten? Minimal and stagnant results. If the carriers have so many conditions on what a phone can and can not have to sell in their store they should build their own phones.

If Microsoft builds the phones pure to their vision, the carriers should have the option to take the phones as they are. It is more than enough with the monkey business that US carriers engage in. "Yeah, we'll take that model so long as no one else in the US can have it". Then they shove it to the back of the store and ignore it. Or worse yet, "Yeah, we'll take that model. But not as you have it configured, it should be made less functional with the following hardware downgrades..." And then they still shove it in the back of the store and ignore it.

Look at these Bing Results for AT&T Lumia Promotion: https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=at&t+lumia+promotion&FORM=HDRSC3
And this Results page for AT&T Samsung Promotion: https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=at&t+samsung+promotion&FORM=HDRSC3
And AT&T iPhone Promotion: https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=at&t+iPhone+promotion&FORM=HDRSC2

Which one looks least current? Which one looks least like the carrier is engaged with the product and happy to stock/sell it?

Continuing to present your product via partners that actively work against the OS will not get results. It's like trying to sell fresh healthy vegetables out of a pig trough filled with slops.

The carriers have Americans conditioned to follow their sales model and it does not have to be that way.

I'll say this, there is not a Microsoft within 3 hours of where I live and I'm more than happy to volunteer that Windows Phones be pulled from carrier stores if it means pandering to carrier idiocy. Some people will just have to sacrifice their convenience for the health and well being of the platform.

There are other brick and mortar retail outlets that can stock and sell phones. Personally I've gotten my last I don't know how many phones off the internet including my undiluted Lumia 1520.3. The last time I bought a phone out of a carrier store for myself was probably 2005. I've had a lot of phones since then.

Complaining that you won't get a phone unless it is in a carrier store is just playing into the stilted game the carriers have established in the US. Doing it their way has no benefit for the consumer. Americans need to disabuse themselves of the incorrect notion that somehow when a carrier provides you with a phone it saves you money and is also done out of some kindhearted and public service oriented motivation. When a shark sees you in the ocean and takes a bite out of your backside, that shark probably believes it is doing you a favor and that bite is owed him anyway.

 

[mjperry51]

How the heck is that a solution? Wal-Mart (along with Best Buy, Target, and the rest) are just go-betweens for the carriers. If the complaint is that AT&T employees know nothing about the Windows Phones that they sell, how in the world is getting a Wal-Mart employee to explain things the solution?

Is it your position the only way Windows phones will sell is if there's a Windows Phone evangelist there to sell it? Elsewhere I'm calling out Microsoft for its marketing failures. Ultimately it's on Microsoft to get the message out. They're been relying on carrier stores -- that's been a big zero.

 

[ScrubbyXD]

How the heck is that a solution? Wal-Mart (along with Best Buy, Target, and the rest) are just go-betweens for the carriers. If the complaint is that AT&T employees know nothing about the Windows Phones that they sell, how in the world is getting a Wal-Mart employee to explain things the solution?

You clearly do not know much about retail. If Microsoft approached these stores with the correct marketing kit and paid them for prime space you would see Windows Phone up front and center with whatever phones they wanted and without a carrier attached. Big retail is NOT beholden to the carriers by any shape or form. If a company shells out for a huge display in prime space they get what they want, including employee training.

 

[a5cent]

Still, like I said, yanking phones off of nationwide shelves and limiting them to major cities isn't going to solve a darned thing.

Except it would, at the very least, solve the exclusivity issue. Want an L930 on ATT? You can have it. Want a L1520 on TM? You can have it.

I don't know where this would leave Verizon and Verizon MVNO customers, but if you're with any other carrier, you can have any device you want, without worrying about carrier exclusivity deals restricting the device you want to a carrier you're not on.

 

[neo158]

Microsoft need to be blunt with the carriers and just sell low-mid tier devices through them with four conditions:

1. The carriers push Windows Phone on an equal footing with iOS and Android devices. Microsoft would have to provide the necessary training and tools for this.

2. The phones must be unlocked with no carrier firmware. This would mean no carrier locked devices so any WP can be used on any network.

3. There will be no carrier variant devices like the AT&T Lumia 1520 meaning that the phones would be one spec across ALL carriers.

4. All updates come directly from Microsoft with no carrier testing.

 

[mark233]