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  1. cracgor's Avatar
    Steve Ballmer is correct in this newest article. Universal apps are destined to fail. They have been present for I don't know exactly, a year? I was always excited to see them in the store, even though rarely. It does seem that they go mostly from the phone to PC which makes sense. It is easy to do and a developer can go from the small population of Windows Mobile users to the large audience of PC users. It is kind of dumb to make the effort the other way around, since you still have to provide updates and time.

    Also, as easy as this should be, like Nadella failed to explain, a Starbucks app, Lowe's app, Bank of America app, or any other mobile app makes little sense to put on a PC. You don't interact the same with them. And so there is little chance of leveraging PC to get phone apps.
    Tien-Lin Chang likes this.
    12-02-2015 08:39 PM
  2. ttsoldier's Avatar
    Um..

    Starbucks installs on an iPad right? That makes sense, doesn't? But it won't make sense on my Surface pro 4? Or any other touch screen and/or laptop with a detachable screen?

    It's only "failing" because Apple has not done it yet.

    P.S windows 10 mobile is not out as yet so you would not see apps for them... and before you say it. Windows 8/8.1 and Windows 10 universal apps are totally different.
    editguy, Mardox, buddy007 and 6 others like this.
    12-02-2015 08:51 PM
  3. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Um..

    Starbucks installs on an iPad right? That makes sense, doesn't? But it won't make sense on my Surface pro 4? Or any other touch screen and/or laptop with a detachable screen?

    It's only "failing" because Apple has not done it yet.

    P.S windows 10 mobile is not out as yet so you would not see apps for them... and before you say it. Windows 8/8.1 and Windows 10 universal apps are totally different.
    The Lumia 950 and 950XL have been released with Windows 10 Mobile.
    12-02-2015 08:56 PM
  4. ttsoldier's Avatar
    The Lumia 950 and 950XL have been released with Windows 10 Mobile.
    I'll rephrase.

    Windows 10 mobile is not available to officially download to the masses. It's available on two phones.

    Once Windows 10 mobile is released globally and people are able to upgrade, the apps will come.
    12-02-2015 08:59 PM
  5. jmshub's Avatar
    So, you're saying that the guy who was asked to leave his CEO position is saying that the new guy isn't doing a great job? That would be unheard of! But seriously, I don't know of anything of this, do you have a link to a Steve Ballmer article?

    I do agree that you aren't going to run a mobile starbucks app on a 30" desktop Windows PC. But, Windows isn't just for desktop PCs anymore, the Windows desktop OS also runs small, lightweight tablets, convertible tablet/laptops, etc. And, Windows can still run legacy Win32 apps, so you aren't limited to just what is available in the store.

    Based on my completely unscientific study, the store is getting a lot better than it was in the Windows 8 / 8.1 days, where the app store was of little value. It could be a long time (if ever) that Microsoft or other "tier one" software providers write major apps for the Windows Store, like Photoshop, or Office.
    12-02-2015 09:01 PM
  6. cracgor's Avatar
    I'll rephrase.

    Windows 10 mobile is not available to officially download to the masses. It's available on two phones.

    Once Windows 10 mobile is released globally and people are able to upgrade, the apps will come.
    Universal apps are available on wp8.1, I have them on my 640. Been available for months at least. How are they totally different?
    12-02-2015 09:02 PM
  7. cracgor's Avatar
    Um..

    Starbucks installs on an iPad right? That makes sense, doesn't? But it won't make sense on my Surface pro 4? Or any other touch screen and/or laptop with a detachable screen?

    It's only "failing" because Apple has not done it yet.

    P.S windows 10 mobile is not out as yet so you would not see apps for them... and before you say it. Windows 8/8.1 and Windows 10 universal apps are totally different.
    Starbucks app is on iPad because it is on iPhone. Easy to go from phone to iPad. Hard to justify making a Starbucks app to pay at the counter for a surface pro if you don't already have it on windows mobile.
    12-02-2015 09:04 PM
  8. heroicgio's Avatar
    As a developer let me just say this, universal apps on windows 8.1 and windows 10 are 2 different things. It's way easier to code for 10. 2nd w10m has yet to officially be out (despite being on 950/xl). Pcs now are heading in a more app friendly direction. If ppl can develop for an iPad pro they can more than develop for a surface pro
    12-02-2015 09:04 PM
  9. cracgor's Avatar
    As a developer let me just say this, universal apps on windows 8.1 and windows 10 are 2 different things. It's way easier to code for 10. 2nd w10m has yet to officially be out (despite being on 950/xl). Pcs now are heading in a more app friendly direction. If ppl can develop for an iPad pro they can more than develop for a surface pro
    They can, but the point is, the reason iPhone apps exist is because iPhone is popular. It then lends itself to port apps to the iPad just because.

    Surface pro may have apps developed for it...but it is definitely slow. Even so, surface pro is hard to carry around in your pocket, so there will be less interest in making exactly the kind of apps you want on your phone. Thus the apps you want on your phone will not appear.

    It seems right on the surface but it is not logical at all.
    12-02-2015 09:09 PM
  10. jmshub's Avatar
    For Steve Ballmer's opinion, the article is here at Windows Central, Former Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer thinks universal app strategy 'won't work' | Windows Central

    I fail to see how Windows Phone would have a better shot if it were just a glorified Android launcher.
    12-02-2015 09:23 PM
  11. ttsoldier's Avatar
    They can, but the point is, the reason iPhone apps exist is because iPhone is popular. It then lends itself to port apps to the iPad just because.

    Surface pro may have apps developed for it...but it is definitely slow. Even so, surface pro is hard to carry around in your pocket, so there will be less interest in making exactly the kind of apps you want on your phone. Thus the apps you want on your phone will not appear.

    It seems right on the surface but it is not logical at all.
    You are completely missing the Windows 10 Universal app platform. the apps aren't developed for surface pro 4. They are developed for Windows 10. That's One Windows. One App.

    If i can download the app on my Surface Pro, I will be able to download it on my Windows 10 mobile device as well.
    ven07 likes this.
    12-02-2015 09:41 PM
  12. BryceMD's Avatar
    The fact Ballmer doesn't think it will be successful brings me hope
    12-02-2015 09:43 PM
  13. jhoff80's Avatar
    You are completely missing the Windows 10 Universal app platform. the apps aren't developed for surface pro 4. They are developed for Windows 10. That's One Windows. One App.

    If i can download the app on my Surface Pro, I will be able to download it on my Windows 10 mobile device as well.
    Right, but why would Starbucks care at all about having an app on the Surface or Hololens? The Starbucks app might work on an iPad, but it was designed primarily for phones. As iOS is a huge chunk of the market, Starbucks wouldn't dare miss out on those users. On the other hand, with Windows, there's so few users on phone that they haven't seen any need to develop for it. You could have 6 billion Windows PC users, and there still would be zero reason for Starbucks to care about a universal app. For a lot of these things we're missing out on, if there's no reason to develop for phone, there's no reason to do it at all.

    The best hope we have is that Project Westminster's web app support catches on, so that we can get a Starbucks web app that integrates with wallet, or bank web apps that integrate with the camera for check deposits. Otherwise, universal apps aren't necessarily the answer.
    12-02-2015 09:46 PM
  14. ttsoldier's Avatar
    Right, but why would Starbucks care at all about having an app on the Surface or Hololens? The Starbucks app might work on an iPad, but it was designed primarily for phones. As iOS is a huge chunk of the market, Starbucks wouldn't dare miss out on those users. On the other hand, with Windows, there's so few users on phone that they haven't seen any need to develop for it. You could have 6 billion Windows PC users, and there still would be zero reason for Starbucks to care about a universal app. For a lot of these things we're missing out on, if there's no reason to develop for phone, there's no reason to do it at all.

    The best hope we have is that Project Westminster's web app support catches on, so that we can get a Starbucks web app that integrates with wallet, or bank web apps that integrate with the camera for check deposits. Otherwise, universal apps aren't necessarily the answer.
    Here we are again. Back to the chicken and egg situation.

    Dev's won't build apps because there are no users.
    Users won't switch to Windows because there are no apps.
    12-02-2015 09:55 PM
  15. jhoff80's Avatar
    Here we are again. Back to the chicken and egg situation.

    Dev's won't build apps because there are no users.
    Users won't switch to Windows because there are no apps.
    Just because a problem is circular doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
    12-02-2015 09:57 PM
  16. ttsoldier's Avatar
    Just because a problem is circular doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
    Oh it exists alright. No doubt about that....
    12-02-2015 09:59 PM
  17. Dewg's Avatar
    Just because a problem is circular doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
    The big question becomes: How do we fix it?

    How do you get more devs to code/port to Win10? How do you get more consumers to buy W10M phones? One of those has to grow, and the other will follow.
    12-03-2015 12:49 AM
  18. editguy's Avatar
    How many post and threads started railing against Windows 10 mobile and the 950's is cracgor going to make? Go through his posts. Nothing but negativity. If someone despises something this much, why not just move on?
    12-03-2015 01:47 AM
  19. guyman101's Avatar
    Windows 10 was released in July (about 5 months ago). Windows 10 mobile is not officially out yet, except for what's available on 950/XL. Claiming that a new strategy is failing after just 5 months, when only part of the strategy has been implemented, is in my opinion, jumping to conclusions. Too soon.
    editguy, Alfa Kapa, zei20t and 2 others like this.
    12-03-2015 02:00 AM
  20. indospot's Avatar
    I really think we're jumping to conclusions here. It's been a couple months, I don't know where you got the idea that they've been out there for a year. And Windows 10 Mobile is barely out. And we've already seen a bunch of apps become universal.

    Sent from mTalk
    12-03-2015 02:18 AM
  21. Panos Athanasiou's Avatar
    no it's not xD since Windows 10 Desktops run the same OS that the surface pro run. if you have ever noticed the tablet mode on your pc this is the proof so when you make it on your desktop for desktops to try it on your desktop and it works it will work on the surface pro too :3
    12-03-2015 03:44 AM
  22. pseudoware's Avatar
    Balmer's that fat bald dude acting like a doofus at Clippers games, right?
    JohnStrk likes this.
    12-03-2015 04:28 AM
  23. Bobvfr's Avatar
    Lets look at an example of a Universal app, Huetro for Hue by Neils Laute, Neils has supported WP and Windows but now he only has to make one app that runs on the one platform, so he can concentrate on just one thing saving time and money, for me I only need download one app on whatever platform I want it on, and I only have to show my wife one app and that saves me so much time and effort you wouldn't believe it.

    But for other developers who have been on one platform or the other, now just they just have the one, for all the people who reckon PC users can just use a web login, now they have a reason to think of apps, because not all PC users use desktops, some of us use phones, some small tablets, some use transformers and there are even one or two traditional PC's about, the point is Windows isn't just a dying OS stuck on PC's, it's a young upstart that can run on almost anything including fridges.

    Developers will want to be involved because this is going somewhere now.
    TexasLabRat likes this.
    12-03-2015 05:16 AM
  24. cracgor's Avatar
    Lets look at an example of a Universal app, Huetro for Hue by Neils Laute, Neils has supported WP and Windows but now he only has to make one app that runs on the one platform, so he can concentrate on just one thing saving time and money, for me I only need download one app on whatever platform I want it on, and I only have to show my wife one app and that saves me so much time and effort you wouldn't believe it.

    But for other developers who have been on one platform or the other, now just they just have the one, for all the people who reckon PC users can just use a web login, now they have a reason to think of apps, because not all PC users use desktops, some of us use phones, some small tablets, some use transformers and there are even one or two traditional PC's about, the point is Windows isn't just a dying OS stuck on PC's, it's a young upstart that can run on almost anything including fridges.

    Developers will want to be involved because this is going somewhere now.
    But how does this make a developer of a mobile app develop for windows phone. Take my Kroger grocery store so used for coupons. It makes sense on a phone. It does not on a PC, tablet, or hololens. How does the fact that it can run on your refrigerator get a developer to put it on my phone?I used to think this is was the answer, but it is flawed logic. You can think I'm just talking on windows phone, or whatever. Doesn't change the truth. I'm a long time windows and WP user. I started posting a lot in this forum because of how poised of the current strategy is making me and my regret buying a 950xl. It's an open forum. I have my opinions. I would like to add the platform live, but lying to myself never helped.
    12-03-2015 05:29 AM
  25. henocksandy's Avatar
    Universal App is the best try by Microsoft! If it works or not, its developer's problem that they don't want to make the app! I seriously don't want Android Apps as the emulator makes the Windows 10 Mobile lag! And i don't want my phone to lag like Android!
    All who want Android Apps can go to Android, why have you come here?
    All I know is that Microsoft is giving their best they got!
    JohnStrk and hiya15 like this.
    12-03-2015 05:36 AM
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