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  1. TK2011's Avatar
    Just because I mentioned what Microsoft intends to do by focusing on the enterprise doesn't change the state of the platform as it is still unproven whether they will see any success there, there's no guarantee there will be any significant uptake by that sector.

    But to the point I think is relevant, this PayPal will sunset its current Windows Phone app on June 30 | Windows Central is the kind of news that's associated with a dead platform, not one that is growing.
    Why are you wasting time on the forum of a dead platform? You've been saying that stuff all over WC these days. Don't you have better things to do?
    05-25-2016 04:58 PM
  2. theefman's Avatar
    Why are you wasting time on the forum of a dead platform? You've been saying that stuff all over WC these days. Don't you have better things to do?
    Proof and also average of these alleged posts compared to all the posts I've made over the years please to determine if I an indeed "wasting time on the forum of a dead platform". Or maybe I'm just voicing my opinion, which is what a forum is for? And did I miss where the signup sheet says "pro Microsoft posts only"?
    aximtreo, steve_w_7 and IEhrgeizI like this.
    05-25-2016 05:03 PM
  3. Guytronic's Avatar
    [NOTE]
    We appreciate all opinion,rhetoric and thoughts posted here staying within the site guidelines.
    Please let's not enter into personal battles.
    Thank you everyone.
    [/NOTE]
    05-25-2016 05:07 PM
  4. TK2011's Avatar
    Proof and also average of these alleged posts compared to all the posts I've made over the years please to determine if I an indeed "wasting time on the forum of a dead platform". Or maybe I'm just voicing my opinion, which is what a forum is for? And did I miss where the signup sheet says "pro Microsoft posts only"?
    I know you were a fan in the past. You obviously aren't anymore because you keep saying it's dead and writes very negatively. If it's dead, WHY do you spend so much time on it? To educate poor souls here that it's really dead? I don't use Mac because it lacks so many things for my work. Do I go to Mac forums and tell people it's bad? Of course not. I think BB is dead. Do I go to BB forum to announce it's dead daily? No, that would be waste my time and stupid.
    Last edited by Guytronic; 05-25-2016 at 05:49 PM. Reason: Language
    zei20t and raycpl like this.
    05-25-2016 05:14 PM
  5. WillysJeepMan's Avatar
    I agree with that. I think it's okay to say that from a consumer's point of view, W10M is almost dead. To claim that it is dead is BS however. Being dead is an irreversible state. Once something is dead it stays that way.

    What crystal ball are people here using that reveals to them that W10M will never recover an iota of market share, not even after being relaunched under a different brand name and when running on devices which nobody would call a smartphone?

    Don't get me wrong. I'm not predicting a huge success for W10M either. I'm not predicting anything. Those who claim W10M is dead are predicting something however. It's just that nobody here has a good enough crystal ball to believably make that prediction. That's why it's BS. The only people who can definitively and irreversibly carry WM to its grave are MS.

    It's slightly ironic that WM is receiving updates faster than ever before in its six year existence, and now is the time when some call it dead. In a way it could be seen as being the exact opposite. In a way it's never been more alive. It's also never been more unpopular however, but that's not the same as being dead.
    People need to keep in mind that for a variety of reasons, legal, technical, financial, etc. Microsoft CANNOT announce that W10M is dead until AFTER it has been dead for quite a while.

    In large corporations like Microsoft (very reminiscent of the old IBM), there is project inertia that keeps things going long after they stop being viable. There are corporate contracts that must be abided by, there are manufacturing orders bound by contracts that must be fulfilled, there are financial filings that Microsoft would need to do in order to protect the stock price, etc. Sometimes corporate contracts contain an odd assortment of bundled products and services... it could be a single large corporate contract that includes W10M in it that would prevent MS from announcing its death.

    A great example of project inertia was the Microsoft Kin. It was publicly killed approx. 30 days after it was released, but the decision to kill it was made well before that date. The Zune line was effectively killed shortly after the release of the HD.

    The sunsetting of products and services follows a predictable pattern. You might call any claims that W10M is dead as BS, but the trajectory of W10M is that it is effectively dead and soon to be formally dead.

    For those who had read my previous posts on the subject know that I pointed to the departure of Belfiore as the event horizon/point of no return for Windows Mobile.
    05-25-2016 05:18 PM
  6. Guytronic's Avatar
    [WARN]Please stay on topic or this will be the end of this thread![/WARN]

    I know you were a fan in the past. You obviously aren't anymore because you keep saying it's dead and writes very negatively. If it's dead, WHY do you spend so much time on it? To educate poor souls here that it's really dead? I don't use Mac because it lacks so many things for my work. Do I go to Mac forums and tell people it's bad? Of course not. I think BB is dead. Do I go to BB forum to announce it's dead daily? No, that would be waste my time and stupid.
    05-25-2016 05:51 PM
  7. Great deal's Avatar
    HP must be pleased.... The OS is new and being improved, the hardware is something MS are pulling back from. Enterprise will eat up the X3 IMO, continuum is very attractive to IT departments and MS will release a Surface phone yearly like Nexus and iPhone's. Other manufacturers will join and compete with HP, they go where the money is.
    RumoredNow and aximtreo like this.
    05-25-2016 05:57 PM
  8. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    HP must be pleased.... The OS is new and being improved, the hardware is something MS are pulling back from. Enterprise will eat up the X3 IMO, continuum is very attractive to IT departments and MS will release a Surface phone yearly like Nexus and iPhone's. Other manufacturers will join and compete with HP, they go where the money is.
    I wouldn't necessarily count on HP.

    Remember webOS?
    05-25-2016 05:59 PM
  9. a5cent's Avatar
    The sunsetting of products and services follows a predictable pattern. You might call any claims that W10M is dead as BS, but the trajectory of W10M is that it is effectively dead and soon to be formally dead.
    If W10M was just another product like the Kin, which had absolutely no strategic relevancy, then you might have a point. W10M isn't just another product though, so you don't.

    A notable part of W10M is developed as part of the larger W10, so there isn't a lot of pressure to drop it. More importantly, W10M can't be removed from MS' OS portfolio without invalidating their entire OS strategy, which MS has been working towards for over a decade. MS isn't going to do that, at least not yet. Nadella just recently went on record saying that MS plans to give W10M and the UWP a few years to prove themselves and I don't think he was lying about that.

    Last but not least, project inertia can keep projects going, particularly the smaller ones, but it doesn't keep projects going which are deemed unnecessary, where the development costs run into the hundreds of millions of dollars annually.

    Yes, I'm still calling BS.

    Since we're talking bout predictions, I guess there isn't much else to say except we'll see. If W10M is still regularly updated and evolving a year from now, then I'll have been right.

    If not, I'll gladly concede to you and everyone else here. We'll see...
    05-25-2016 06:04 PM
  10. Great deal's Avatar
    I wouldn't necessarily count on HP.

    Remember webOS?
    Agree, however same could be said about any of them, with thier latest changes and product releases I have faith in them. They spent 2 years taking to enterprise and the X3 is the result, like a5cent said, time will tell, not too long to wait!
    RumoredNow, a5cent and aximtreo like this.
    05-25-2016 06:14 PM
  11. TK2011's Avatar
    For those who had read my previous posts on the subject know that I pointed to the departure of Belfiore as the event horizon/point of no return for Windows Mobile.
    He's returning to MS this summer after a long family vacation traveling around the world.
    05-25-2016 06:22 PM
  12. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Agree, however same could be said about any of them, with thier latest changes and product releases I have faith in them. They spent 2 years taking to enterprise and the X3 is the result, like a5cent said, time will tell, not too long to wait!
    HP actually owned webOS yet killed it.

    HP used to make a lot of different products that it no longer does. At one time, HP made test equipment for laboratories.

    HP seems to be a shell of what it once was, like IBM.
    libra89, aximtreo and xandros9 like this.
    05-25-2016 06:25 PM
  13. Great deal's Avatar
    HP actually owned webOS yet killed it.

    HP used to make a lot of different products that it no longer does. At one time, HP made test equipment for laboratories.

    HP seems to be a shell of what it once was, like IBM.
    Yes, and they have recently launched some amazing laptops (spectre looks great) and a mobile device that simply beats (spec wise) anything out there. Companies change and I like the direction they are going in.
    05-25-2016 06:29 PM
  14. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Yes, and they have recently launched some amazing laptops (spectre looks great) and a mobile device that simply beats (spec wise) anything out there. Companies change and I like the direction they are going in.
    I had an HP notebook that did not last long. I'd never purchase another one from HP. I have a Toshiba Satellite notebook that is 11 years old and still works.
    xandros9 likes this.
    05-25-2016 06:33 PM
  15. jiangweilin's Avatar
    I think people misunderstand what Microsoft is up to. Microsoft just sold the Nokia brand to the people who make Apple's iPhone, and promised to support Windows Phone 10. In buying and selling Nokia, at a loss of nearly $7 billion, Microsoft got just what it needed. Sufficient technology to design, produce and market a high end liquid cooled phone. Having what they wanted, Lumia was dead weight. So, Microsoft sold the Nokia stuff. But Microsoft did not sell the cooling technology or other innovations in the 950 and 950XL. Those will be needed for the forthcoming Surface phone, which will run exactly the same OS and software as the Surface Pro 4. The app shortage obstacle will be gone, and Microsoft will be all alone with a phone that doesn't just look like the desktop, but can function like it. No NETFLIX app-use the browser. Same for pretty much everything else. Meanwhile, Apple's leading OPM manufacturer is busily competing with Apple. Microsoft has made lots of errors in mobile. This isn't one.
    05-25-2016 07:07 PM
  16. RumoredNow's Avatar
    I wouldn't necessarily count on HP.

    Remember webOS?
    That's a good analogy, but to my mind not for the reasons you are putting it forward. Lets take a look at it.


    HP bought Palm which had a lot of promise, excellent patents and great talent. Then a man came along when the board was distracted and decided that he'd turn HP the hardware juggernaut into a software company. He began dismantling as much of the hardware divisions as he could before he was stopped and he purchased a lot of disastrous software interests along the way...

    Microsoft is a software juggernaut. At one point a man decided they should create more hardware and he put together a deal to buy up the largest mobile hardware partner Microsoft had which contained lots of promise, excellent patents and great talent. Unfortunately, this deal ignored the fact that the once highly successful company was hemorrhaging money at an alarming rate in its handset business...


    Both of these companies (HP and Microsoft) are correcting their course and returning to their strengths.
    05-25-2016 09:08 PM
  17. TechAbstract's Avatar
    HP actually owned webOS yet killed it.

    HP used to make a lot of different products that it no longer does. At one time, HP made test equipment for laboratories.

    HP seems to be a shell of what it once was, like IBM.
    HP is more similar to Dell than IBM. They both have their hands on consumer and enterprise markets.
    05-25-2016 09:32 PM
  18. jefbeard911's Avatar
    Because, it is.

    .7% market share
    No new phone until at least 2017 (950 came out Oct 2015!)
    non-committal, cleverly worded statements from MS ("We will continue to support the WP operating system..")
    1700+ WP staff to be let go.

    come on.......read the writing on the wall....
    05-26-2016 05:21 AM
  19. savagelizards's Avatar
    If Windows phone isn't dead yet, it's certainly coughing up blood.

    Personally, I had to buy a refurbished Icon off amazon a couple of months back because my carrier, Verizon, has already decided windows phone is dead and doesn't offer anything better than a refurbished two year old flagship.

    My family thinks of me as a phone hobbiest. In order to get a new phone, I had to buy a used phone, then upgrade it to 8.1, then denim, then install the insider app to take updates so i could run windows 10, then deal with a bug in .264 that rendered my phone a hot glowing blob with a half hour battery life until the last update. And I can never get Redstone, so I will be left behind again, this time with nowhere to go. Who would leave another platform for that experience?

    Windows phone is Latin. You can still learn Latin, but there's really no one to talk to, so the network effect is really limited.

    It's that network effect, or more precisely the lack thereof, that is causing problems for windows phone. Think of a healthy network effect as oxygen. As market share falls, the oxygen gets scarce and it's harder to breathe. Apps suffocate, and key apps die off all together. This lowers market share further, and more apps die off. It's a feedback loop.

    I personally came to windows phone because I was sick of being Google's product and Apple was too controlling. Microsoft had the best privacy policy, and windows phone 8.1 was about to launch and promised big things. The only reason I am here today us because I was already here.

    Ask yourself, who in their right mind is leaving another platform to come to windows 10 mobile today? Certainly no one on Verizon, because Verizon doesn't even carry a current model, let alone offer a flagship. Anyone under 30 would never, because none of their apps would be available, or if they were would be undependable or lack major functionality. For them Microsoft itself lacks the cool factor, and forget about telling them about using web pages when what they know are apps. It just doesn't happen.

    So yeah, dead. All that's left are a dwindling number of people who were already here. That's becoming true even in emerging markets like India where Microsoft is dumping phones.

    So dead. Very dead.
    05-26-2016 05:36 AM
  20. mranieri's Avatar
    C'mon there's still some of us at webOS Nation!
    Hahaha I fired up my Frankenpre last night...
    xandros9 and RumoredNow like this.
    05-26-2016 07:32 AM
  21. Krystianpants's Avatar
    I had an HP notebook that did not last long. I'd never purchase another one from HP. I have a Toshiba Satellite notebook that is 11 years old and still works.
    I never liked HP stuff either. They were lousy. But my brother has one of the newer 2-in-1's and it's a solid piece of hardware. He is the poster child for destroying technology. He does not take care of anything he has and goes through it quick. This one has lasted him a while already and it's still in great shape. Even the power cable has been designed to withstand his horrible usage scenario where he plugs it into an outlet really far away and then stretches it and bends it to hell near the connector so he can be comfortable haha.

    He will grab laptops by the screen and just whip them down on the floor. And he is still doing that but the hp has been holding! By this time his samsung laptop was in agony.

    And to Great Deal:

    Unless continuum is enhanced quite a bit before anniversary I don't think it will be a big hit. It's supposed to stand for productivity but you can only use 1 full screen at a time. They need a snap screen solution. They also need to be able to set different mouse settings as well from scrolling to speed. Possibly re-arrange the back button since it's way at the bottom in a weird place that makes it less intuitive on how to go back. Typically in windows 10 the app itself has a back button at the top. Since continuum is supposed to be like desktop that would make more sense. There's a bunch of things I can go on about but it's still pretty decent for first iteration and people who want to play around, but not for getting serious work done. I mean Edge is so sloooow.
    Great deal and Chintan Gohel like this.
    05-26-2016 07:43 AM
  22. Tsang Fai's Avatar
    It's dead, they wont have a surface phone device out for at least a year and maybe that has just been lip service to keep devoted fans off their back. Your product development pipeline doesn't just stall out like that and have ZERO new devices coming without some intent behind it. This was decided many many months ago, hell they must have known even before they dribbled out the 950 twins.
    I don't agree not releasing new phone every year implies WP is dead. The current offerings (950, 650) have more than enough hardware spec which can fulfill most users in the coming 2-3 years at least. Even Apple is just releasing a new major version of iPhone every 2 years.
    05-26-2016 08:51 AM
  23. Timbre70's Avatar
    MS is not Apple. It just doesn't have the charisma.
    05-26-2016 08:56 AM
  24. Tsang Fai's Avatar
    Windows phone is Latin. You can still learn Latin, but there's really no one to talk to, so the network effect is really limited
    Windows Phone is currently working very fine to those non-app guys. "no one to talk to"?? We can still use WhatsApp, Facebook.

    Unless those critical apps like WhatsApp, Facebooks are leaving, WP is surely not dead.

    Dead is nothing. But Windows Mobile is more than nothing.

    So Microsoft should make sure those critical apps will not be leaving Windows Store.

    The current status of WP is much like Mac about two decades ago - very limited software and very low market share, but it is still functional.
    05-26-2016 09:01 AM
  25. jefbeard911's Avatar

    The current status of WP is much like Mac about two decades ago - very limited software and very low market share, but it is still functional.
    Possibly, but I don't see a brilliant ex-CEO with billions of their own personal fortune coming to the rescue any time soon..
    05-26-2016 09:52 AM
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