Why doesn't someone at MS just refute all the "W10M is Dead" claims?

[fatclue_98]

To the OP: Um, I think Myerson did say so. Maybe the title of the thread should be - "When someone at Microsoft says Windows 10 for Mobile is NOT dead, why won't anyone listen?"

 

[theefman]

Trying to define "dead" by compared to the official definition is just playing on semantics. The platform isn't growing but rather contracting at a rapid rate, sales and overall marketshare are tanking, the platform maker now says they will concentrate only on enterprise, the remaining OEMs amount to a rounding error in sales numbers..... For all intents and purposes using accepted methods of assessing phone platforms today yes, it is dead.

But saying it's dead doesn't mean you dislike the platform, it's just being realistic and there's nothing wrong with accepting the reality when it comes to WP/W10M.

 

[a5cent]

Trying to define "dead" by compared to the official definition is just playing on semantics. The platform isn't growing but rather contracting at a rapid rate, sales and overall marketshare are tanking, the platform maker now says they will concentrate only on enterprise, the remaining OEMs amount to a rounding error in sales numbers..... For all intents and purposes using accepted methods of assessing phone platforms today yes, it is dead.

Ehemm... none of the accepted methods of assessing phone platforms today defines an outcome or market-state known as "dead".

Furthermore, you required a whole paragraph to define what "dead" means to you, and you left wiggle room in that definition for MS to target corporations, which makes no sense to me. Either it's dead or it isn't, which is how most people here appear to use it.

Many here do seem to think W10M is irreversibly and forevermore over and done with, but we know that is just plain wrong. The corporation angle you mentioned is proof of that.

Only by being blind to the future and ignoring everything that's further out than today's market share numbers can we say it's dead.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying we should wait for a better version of WM. I've moved on myself. However, that doesn't make it impossible for W10M to recover. I'm not overly hopeful, but it's not over until the fat lady sings.

 

[Sheamartin]

So I think Windows Mobile is the best kept secret. I've had the Android and it was fine. But I love this phone. And so happy I could load W10M on it.
So maybe they'll let the secret out. And maybe then Verizon will play nice with them. Ahhh the dream.

 

[TK2011]

MS already stated clearly: ""We are focusing our phone efforts where we have differentiation — with enterprises that value security, manageability and our Continuum capability, and consumers who value the same," said Satya Nadella, chief executive officer of Microsoft. "We will continue to innovate across devices and on our cloud services across all mobile platforms."

 

[theefman]

Ehemm... none of the accepted methods of assessing phone platforms today defines an outcome or market-state known as "dead".

Furthermore, you required a whole paragraph to define what "dead" means to you, and you left wiggle room in that definition for MS to target corporations, which makes no sense to me. Either it's dead or it isn't, which is how most people here appear to use it.

Many here do seem to think W10M is irreversibly and forevermore over and done with, but we know that is just plain wrong. The corporation angle you mentioned is proof of that.

Only by being blind to the future and ignoring everything that's further out than today's market share numbers can we say it's dead.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying we should wait for a better version of WM. I've moved on myself. However, that doesn't make it impossible for W10M to recover. I'm not overly hopeful, but it's not over until the fat lady sings.

Just because I mentioned what Microsoft intends to do by focusing on the enterprise doesn't change the state of the platform as it is still unproven whether they will see any success there, there's no guarantee there will be any significant uptake by that sector.

But to the point I think is relevant, this PayPal will sunset its current Windows Phone app on June 30 | Windows Central is the kind of news that's associated with a dead platform, not one that is growing.

 

[wplee]

Trying to define "dead" by compared to the official definition is just playing on semantics. The platform isn't growing but rather contracting at a rapid rate, sales and overall marketshare are tanking, the platform maker now says they will concentrate only on enterprise, the remaining OEMs amount to a rounding error in sales numbers..... For all intents and purposes using accepted methods of assessing phone platforms today yes, it is dead.

But saying it's dead doesn't mean you dislike the platform, it's just being realistic and there's nothing wrong with accepting the reality when it comes to WP/W10M.

Your wrong and I'll explain why.

The "Platform" as you call it is actually Brand NEW. We've already moved on from WP my friend.

Low adaption and slow? Yes. But Windows 10 Mobile is less than a year old. So how is it retracting? Sure its tiny and will be for a while. For 2016 there will be small growth carried by budget Lumia 550s (currently top 3 selling prepaid handset in UK) then Enterprise with HP Elite X3 until Surface Phone. Windows 10 Mobile is just a version of Windows 10. How many users does that have? 300 Million and growing fast.

If your referring to Windows Phone as the platform then I have some news for you bro. Microsoft already killed off Windows Phone last year when they announced Windows 10 Mobile. Win10 powers everything from HoloLens to Tablets. Its the future and Windows 10 overall has been a huge success.

Microsoft won't give up on Windows 10 Mobile because development covers everything anyway (Desktop, Xbox etc). That's the beauty of a Universal Platform.

I'm not disillusioned.
Lumia is dead and Windows Phone 8.1 was a Flop. They messed up so many things and failed. Those users have now moved on (hence WP fall in users).

But Windows 10 Mobile is not going anywhere. It's universal with universal apps. We may not have many phones to pick from for a while but we have an actively developed OS, an upcoming flasgship (Elite X3) and a brand new "Surface Phone" to look forward to next year. And Once Microsoft are ready to hit the consumer market mainstream again, they have $100B in cash in the bank should they need for marketing. Exciting times are indeed ahead...

 

[a5cent]

Just because I mentioned what Microsoft intends to do by focusing on the enterprise doesn't change the state of the platform as it is still unproven whether they will see any success there, there's no guarantee there will be any significant uptake by that sector.

I agree. In the same way, there is no guarantee that W10M won't eventually find success in some niche, likely not in the form of a smartphone, but as something entirely different. Failure is not certain or guaranteed, so it's not dead.

If you were to say that the Lumia line is dead, or that MS' efforts to succeed in the consumer smartphone space are dead, then I'd agree. I was actually the first person to state that in these forums, before it was officially reported.

That's not the question here though. The question is whether W10M as a mobile OS (not just a smartphone OS)is dead. It isn't. Not until MS stops funding software development.

 

[Krystianpants]

I agree with that. I think it's okay to say that from a consumer's point of view, W10M is almost dead. To claim that it is dead is BS however. Being dead is an irreversible state. Once something is dead it stays that way.

What crystal ball are people here using that reveals to them that W10M will never recover an iota of market share, not even after being relaunched under a different brand name and when running on devices which nobody would call a smartphone?

Don't get me wrong. I'm not predicting a huge success for W10M either. I'm not predicting anything. Those who claim W10M is dead are predicting something however. It's just that nobody here has a good enough crystal ball to believably make that prediction. That's why it's BS. The only people who can definitively and irreversibly carry WM to its grave are MS.

It's slightly ironic that WM is receiving updates faster than ever before in its six year existence, and now is the time when some call it dead. In a way it could be seen as being the exact opposite. In a way it's never been more alive. It's also never been more unpopular however, but that's not the same as being dead.

I think that there is some confusion. Windows Phone is associated with anything before windows 10. Windows 10 mobile is associated with a huge variation of devices from phones, tablets or anything else that can be considered mobile. So I consider Windows phone dead as there is no primary phone OS anymore. It's an OS that encapsulates more than phones.

 

[jeffchapik]

Last one out, get the lights.

 

[TK2011]

Just because I mentioned what Microsoft intends to do by focusing on the enterprise doesn't change the state of the platform as it is still unproven whether they will see any success there, there's no guarantee there will be any significant uptake by that sector.

But to the point I think is relevant, this PayPal will sunset its current Windows Phone app on June 30 | Windows Central is the kind of news that's associated with a dead platform, not one that is growing.

Why are you wasting time on the forum of a dead platform? You've been saying that stuff all over WC these days. Don't you have better things to do?

 

[theefman]

Why are you wasting time on the forum of a dead platform? You've been saying that stuff all over WC these days. Don't you have better things to do?

Proof and also average of these alleged posts compared to all the posts I've made over the years please to determine if I an indeed "wasting time on the forum of a dead platform". Or maybe I'm just voicing my opinion, which is what a forum is for? And did I miss where the signup sheet says "pro Microsoft posts only"?

 

[Guytronic]

[NOTE]

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Thank you everyone.
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[TK2011]

Proof and also average of these alleged posts compared to all the posts I've made over the years please to determine if I an indeed "wasting time on the forum of a dead platform". Or maybe I'm just voicing my opinion, which is what a forum is for? And did I miss where the signup sheet says "pro Microsoft posts only"?

I know you were a fan in the past. You obviously aren't anymore because you keep saying it's dead and writes very negatively. If it's dead, WHY do you spend so much time on it? To educate poor souls here that it's really dead? I don't use Mac because it lacks so many things for my work. Do I go to Mac forums and tell people it's bad? Of course not. I think BB is dead. Do I go to BB forum to announce it's dead daily? No, that would be waste my time and stupid.

 

[WillysJeepMan]

I agree with that. I think it's okay to say that from a consumer's point of view, W10M is almost dead. To claim that it is dead is BS however. Being dead is an irreversible state. Once something is dead it stays that way.

What crystal ball are people here using that reveals to them that W10M will never recover an iota of market share, not even after being relaunched under a different brand name and when running on devices which nobody would call a smartphone?

Don't get me wrong. I'm not predicting a huge success for W10M either. I'm not predicting anything. Those who claim W10M is dead are predicting something however. It's just that nobody here has a good enough crystal ball to believably make that prediction. That's why it's BS. The only people who can definitively and irreversibly carry WM to its grave are MS.

It's slightly ironic that WM is receiving updates faster than ever before in its six year existence, and now is the time when some call it dead. In a way it could be seen as being the exact opposite. In a way it's never been more alive. It's also never been more unpopular however, but that's not the same as being dead.

People need to keep in mind that for a variety of reasons, legal, technical, financial, etc. Microsoft CANNOT announce that W10M is dead until AFTER it has been dead for quite a while.

In large corporations like Microsoft (very reminiscent of the old IBM), there is project inertia that keeps things going long after they stop being viable. There are corporate contracts that must be abided by, there are manufacturing orders bound by contracts that must be fulfilled, there are financial filings that Microsoft would need to do in order to protect the stock price, etc. Sometimes corporate contracts contain an odd assortment of bundled products and services... it could be a single large corporate contract that includes W10M in it that would prevent MS from announcing its death.

A great example of project inertia was the Microsoft Kin. It was publicly killed approx. 30 days after it was released, but the decision to kill it was made well before that date. The Zune line was effectively killed shortly after the release of the HD.

The sunsetting of products and services follows a predictable pattern. You might call any claims that W10M is dead as BS, but the trajectory of W10M is that it is effectively dead and soon to be formally dead.

For those who had read my previous posts on the subject know that I pointed to the departure of Belfiore as the event horizon/point of no return for Windows Mobile.

 

[Guytronic]

[WARN]Please stay on topic or this will be the end of this thread![/WARN]
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I know you were a fan in the past. You obviously aren't anymore because you keep saying it's dead and writes very negatively. If it's dead, WHY do you spend so much time on it? To educate poor souls here that it's really dead? I don't use Mac because it lacks so many things for my work. Do I go to Mac forums and tell people it's bad? Of course not. I think BB is dead. Do I go to BB forum to announce it's dead daily? No, that would be waste my time and stupid.

 

[Great deal]

HP must be pleased.... The OS is new and being improved, the hardware is something MS are pulling back from. Enterprise will eat up the X3 IMO, continuum is very attractive to IT departments and MS will release a Surface phone yearly like Nexus and iPhone's. Other manufacturers will join and compete with HP, they go where the money is.

 

[Laura Knotek]

HP must be pleased.... The OS is new and being improved, the hardware is something MS are pulling back from. Enterprise will eat up the X3 IMO, continuum is very attractive to IT departments and MS will release a Surface phone yearly like Nexus and iPhone's. Other manufacturers will join and compete with HP, they go where the money is.

I wouldn't necessarily count on HP.

Remember webOS?

 

[a5cent]

The sunsetting of products and services follows a predictable pattern. You might call any claims that W10M is dead as BS, but the trajectory of W10M is that it is effectively dead and soon to be formally dead.

If W10M was just another product like the Kin, which had absolutely no strategic relevancy, then you might have a point. W10M isn't just another product though, so you don't.

A notable part of W10M is developed as part of the larger W10, so there isn't a lot of pressure to drop it. More importantly, W10M can't be removed from MS' OS portfolio without invalidating their entire OS strategy, which MS has been working towards for over a decade. MS isn't going to do that, at least not yet. Nadella just recently went on record saying that MS plans to give W10M and the UWP a few years to prove themselves and I don't think he was lying about that.

Last but not least, project inertia can keep projects going, particularly the smaller ones, but it doesn't keep projects going which are deemed unnecessary, where the development costs run into the hundreds of millions of dollars annually.

Yes, I'm still calling BS.

Since we're talking bout predictions, I guess there isn't much else to say except we'll see. If W10M is still regularly updated and evolving a year from now, then I'll have been right.

If not, I'll gladly concede to you and everyone else here. We'll see...

 

[Great deal]

I wouldn't necessarily count on HP.

Remember webOS?

Agree, however same could be said about any of them, with thier latest changes and product releases I have faith in them. They spent 2 years taking to enterprise and the X3 is the result, like a5cent said, time will tell, not too long to wait!