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  1. ttxzee's Avatar
    Hi, my surface book's PCIe NVMe SSD has very poor write speeds. it tops out at about 160 MB/s, can anyone test their Surface Book to see if they are all like that or it's just my unit? Mine has a 128GB Samsung NVMe SSD.

    here's a video demonstrating it:
    10-28-2015 07:51 PM
  2. Daniel Rubino's Avatar
    Core i7/512GB/16GB/dGPU

    crystaldm.png
    a5cent, ParoleGA, danz14 and 3 others like this.
    10-28-2015 08:46 PM
  3. ParoleGA's Avatar
    Core i7/512GB/16GB/dGPU
    Attached Thumbnails cdmk.jpg  
    ttxzee likes this.
    10-28-2015 09:10 PM
  4. Akira X's Avatar
    i7/512GB/16GB/dGPU

    surfacebookdisk.png
    ttxzee likes this.
    10-28-2015 09:17 PM
  5. Akira X's Avatar
    Make sure you have the new System firmware that came out. It improved storage performance. Run windows update.

    Surface Camera drivers set (v30.10154.6640.152) enables the Windows Hello feature. Control Logic driver (v30.10154.6640.152)
    CSI2 Host Controller driver (v30.10154.6640.152)
    Imaging Signal Processor 2500 driver (v30.10154.6640.152)
    Microsoft Camera Front driver (v30.10154.6640.152)
    Microsoft Camera Rear driver (v30.10154.6640.152)
    Microsoft IR Camera Front driver (v30.10154.6640.152)
    Surface Camera Windows Hello driver (v1.0.24.0)
    AVStream Camera 2500 driver (v30.10154.6640.152)

    Surface Display Calibration driver (v1.1.371.0) improves the overall display stability.
    Surface Integration driver (v1.1.263.0) improves storage performance.
    Surface Storage Firmware Update driver (v1.447.0) improves storage performance.
    10-28-2015 09:29 PM
  6. ttxzee's Avatar
    Hey Dan, may i know which SSD you have? I know a few people are getting slow speeds on NVMe SAMSUNG MZFLVxxx Drives. Just trying to find out if it's that particular drive that has a problem...
    10-28-2015 11:17 PM
  7. ttxzee's Avatar
    I just performed a full system reset and updated the drivers, unfortunately SSD is still very slow...

    capture.png
    10-28-2015 11:29 PM
  8. Akira X's Avatar
    I have the same driver you show, except drive model ends in "512".
    10-28-2015 11:44 PM
  9. Daniel Rubino's Avatar
    Hey Dan, may i know which SSD you have? I know a few people are getting slow speeds on NVMe SAMSUNG MZFLVxxx Drives. Just trying to find out if it's that particular drive that has a problem...
    Looks like Samsung

    samsung-ssd.png
    ttxzee likes this.
    10-28-2015 11:45 PM
  10. Devhux's Avatar
    Given that lower-capacity SSDs tend to have worse performance, it seems that currently the results for our 128GB drives are "normal." I put that in quotes as even the write speed on the 512GB models really isn't indicative of what NVMe is capable of, so maybe there are some performance issues overall.

    For comparison, here's my 128GB Samsung drive in my Surface Book.

    capture.png
    ttxzee likes this.
    10-29-2015 03:29 AM
  11. ttsoldier's Avatar
    Given that lower-capacity SSDs tend to have worse performance, it seems that currently the results for our 128GB drives are "normal." I put that in quotes as even the write speed on the 512GB models really isn't indicative of what NVMe is capable of, so maybe there are some performance issues overall.

    For comparison, here's my 128GB Samsung drive in my Surface Book.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Are you sure it's due to low capacity? This user has a 512 ssd and is still experiencing slow speeds.

    bdf0be27-4b61-4b9e-99fd-5ab8aef4eac7.png


    Extremely slow SSD in Surface Book - Microsoft Community
    10-29-2015 04:34 AM
  12. Devhux's Avatar
    Yeah, appears something is going on here.

    Performance will be less with a 128GB drive, but obviously even the other ones are having some issues as well.

    Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
    10-29-2015 07:26 AM
  13. ttsoldier's Avatar
    Could this be a Samsung problem? Or a windows problem?

    Can we expect a firmware update from Samsung to rectify this??

    Haven't collected my SP4 yet as yet so I can't tell... I got a 512ssd though..
    10-29-2015 07:11 PM
  14. Stocklone's Avatar
    write-speeds.pnghardware-setup.png

    Here's my results for i7/512GB Surface Book.

    I've had 3 Samsung SSD drives on 3 different desktops that were really slow because they were in a frozen state and you had to unhook them while running this DOS program to fix them. I seriously doubt that's the problem here. But that's the closest thing I've experienced.
    10-31-2015 01:59 AM
  15. Yonic Boom's Avatar
    i7 / 256 / dGPU

    capture.png

    capture2.png

    I haven't noticed any obvious performance issues so far, but I don't know what I should expect out of this drive. If there's more speed to come out of it with future updates that's great though.
    10-31-2015 03:08 AM
  16. ipwnmice's Avatar
    The Surface Pro 4 and Surface Book use Samsung's PM951 drives.
    If you looks up its specs, the 128 GB version has 150MB/s writes and the 256GB version has 280MB/s.
    ttsoldier and ttxzee like this.
    11-01-2015 12:03 AM
  17. ttsoldier's Avatar
    The Surface Pro 4 and Surface Book use Samsung's PM951 drives.
    If you looks up its specs, the 128 GB version has 150MB/s writes and the 256GB version has 280MB/s.
    Great point.

    Here are the specs for the three drives:

    MZVLV128HCGR (PM951) - Client SSD | Samsung Semiconductor Global

    MZVLV256HCHP (PM951) - Client SSD | Samsung Semiconductor Global

    MZVLV512HCJH (PM951) - Client SSD | Samsung Semiconductor Global
    11-01-2015 02:41 AM
  18. ikjadoon's Avatar
    OP, just like ttsoldier mentioned, you're experiencing the normal performance of the 128GB PM951. I don't understand why Microsoft would offer this drive in a $1500 notebook; this 128GB drive has the slowest sequential writes that I have seen of any SSD in the past four years. Literally, spinning hard disks write faster than this drive. That 6TB spinning disk writes @ 215MB/s.

    You know what's most aggravating? There are much faster 128GB SSDs (all non-NVMe) that have been available for years. Sure, in any one line of SSDs, the 128GB model is the slowest (or whatever the lowest capacity is). But, in general--128GB SSDs can hold their own. Just not this one.



    But, I suspect Microsoft didn't expect users of the lowest-end model to really be copying lots of files (even though they paid $1500 for their system). Honestly, though, this SSD is an embarrassment to 2015 SSDs and a bad mark on PCIe NVMe drives.

    To make it even worse, this uses TLC NAND from Samsung. I still haven't forgiven Samsung for the issues they caused in the 840 EVO and the 840 (which, I think, is still unpatched). I don't know if it's the exactly the same NAND, but Anandtech wrote this earlier this year:

    At the heart of the issue was the drive’s relatively uncommon 19nm TLC NAND, which given the combination of small feature size and tighter requirements of TLC, eventually resulted in the drive having to slow down and re-read cells to properly read the charge-decayed cells....

    Ultimately Samsung’s second fix is a bit of a brute force solution to the problem, but at this point there doesn’t seem to be anything Samsung can do about 19nm TLC cell charge decay other than to refresh the data, as the problem is intrinsic to the NAND itself.
    Damn, Microsoft: this is the NAND you chose to put in your $1500 laptop? I hope they got crazy strong assurances from Samsung that this won't be happening in their premier 2015 laptop.

    And, to make matters worse, it's the sequential write speeds that are weak. You know, exactly the speeds to degrade over time when the drive gets more full.

    But, as always, Microsoft is happy to charge you $2/GB (roughly) to upgrade your Samsung TLC SSD to another Samsung TLC SSD.

    --

    In the end, most users won't notice or care. But, Microsoft...in their reveal...literally edits Adobe Premier Pro on stage and raves about how fast movie files copy from the external hard drive.
    Last edited by ikjadoon; 11-04-2015 at 11:05 PM.
    11-04-2015 10:09 PM
  19. ttsoldier's Avatar
    Here's mine

    i5/8gb/512ssd

    capture.png
    11-04-2015 10:12 PM
  20. ikjadoon's Avatar
    Right, the 512GB drive actually performs like a proper SSD, but still short of most NVMe PCIe SSDs. We have been hitting 500MB/s sequential writes for a few years now. Sorry--I'm sure it's a great real-world drive in most applications and the one I will likely be purchasing. But, it's still a disappointment from a NVMe drive released in 2015 in a premimum lapop, especially when many other drives are much faster.

    Curiously, there seems to be two brands of SSD floating around in Surface Books and SP4s. Anandtech is looking into it and their review likely landing later this week.

    Are you sure it's due to low capacity? This user has a 512 ssd and is still experiencing slow speeds.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Extremely slow SSD in Surface Book - Microsoft Community
    OK, I'll post there, too, but those numbers are way off. I think a major culprit here is search indexing; MobileTechReview's editor mentioned that if you bench SSDs while the laptop is fresh, Search Indexing is still going on and could hurt SSD performance.
    11-04-2015 11:12 PM
  21. Chuck Foltz's Avatar
    I noticed the same thing with my 512 SSD. By chance do you have Bit Locker enabled? When you choose I own my surface and login with a MS account it will by default enable bit locker.
    11-05-2015 12:33 PM
  22. John M Beauchemin's Avatar
    I wonder if they chose this drive for low power consumption? They obviously did not choose it for performance, so either they went cheap for the price, or they chose it based on some other metric, like power consumption.
    11-05-2015 03:23 PM
  23. Daniel Rubino's Avatar
    I wonder if they chose this drive for low power consumption? They obviously did not choose it for performance, so either they went cheap for the price, or they chose it based on some other metric, like power consumption.
    Not really sure. Look at my Surface Pro 4s I have two variations:

    Core i5 at 256 GB with a Toshiba SSD (build 10586)
    Core m3 at 128GB with a Samsung SSD (build 10240)

    Toshiba wins for sequential and 512k, but loses in 4k and 4k QD32. Anyone make sense of that?

    sp4-benchmarks.jpg
    11-05-2015 06:49 PM
  24. ikjadoon's Avatar
    Err, a few things: your CrystalDiskMark, I just realized, is a little old: 3.0.4. Everyone else is using 5.0.2 (actually, one guy's even using 5.0.3).

    But, that withstanding, you actually have the slowest 4K speeds I've seen on a Toshiba drive (that 4K is like spindle disk level, man--spindle disks get around 1MB/s of 4K). Looks like it's on the new build: was Search Indexing completed/paused when you ran that test? Any other programs in the background?

    Compare all these Toshiba results with yours:

    https://i.imgur.com/oIzNu7R.jpg
    http://images.anandtech.com/doci/972...alDiskMark.png
    https://i.imgur.com/UcbSoPd.png

    This Toshiba guy thinks Search Indexing was still going on:

    https://i.imgur.com/tf9MLQI.png

    These are all the same SSD: the 256GB Toshiba XG3. We shouldn't be getting such different results--the issues are Windows updates, CrystalDiskMark versions, firmware updates, search indexing, background programs, local vs Microsoft account (Bitlocker), etc.

    So, I would be curious, if (when controlled for all these variables) your drive ever matched what other users were getting, but--I think overall--we may need to wait for a "final" verdict on this when the Anandtech review lands. I'm a little too tired to go back to all those people and ask them all these questions, in the end, haha. But, if you want those blazing results from CDM, I'd take a look at these extra variables.
    11-05-2015 09:38 PM
  25. ikjadoon's Avatar
    I noticed the same thing with my 512 SSD. By chance do you have Bit Locker enabled? When you choose I own my surface and login with a MS account it will by default enable bit locker.
    That's a great point. I was surprised why so many people had turned it on (I thought it was more of an enterprise feature), but the Microsoft account bit seems to be the "culprit".

    Bitlocker is an important variable, but from the benches I've seen, it mostly affects 4K speeds and not so much sequential speeds.
    11-05-2015 09:49 PM
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