01-01-2018 01:24 PM
46 12
tools
  1. anon(7929613)'s Avatar
    Microsoft launched its first Surface device in 2012 and with it, aimed to revolutionise the way we write and draw besides providing us with a powerful computing experience on a smaller form-factor. After 5 long years and numerous updates, it succeeded in the later but failed in other aspects. I say this because I have seen very few people using Surface to write and draw. I myself do not enjoy writing on it because of the lag issues.

    There are devices like “DOMO nScribe Scribble Pad” that are not only thinner and lighter, but offers better writing experience than Surface. However, they have limited features and not particularly a game changer.

    I think Surface Pro needs further improvements if it wants to dethrone paper.

    What do you think? Do you use Surface Pro to write and draw?
    12-18-2017 12:34 PM
  2. Jakoh's Avatar
    I wouldn't call it failed.
    It's still on going. It just started with ink like an year ago.
    12-18-2017 01:22 PM
  3. xandros9's Avatar
    The Surface was more of an attempt to replace one's laptop, that's what a lot of marketing focused around and the pen functionality was just a nice bonus for digital artists or for notetaking.
    12-18-2017 01:25 PM
  4. etphoto's Avatar
    The surface will never dethrone paper and I never remember reading anything claims it would. The credit card never pushed cash completely out the door nor will the surface push paper.

    Twitter: @PhotographyET
    12-18-2017 03:23 PM
  5. anon(7929613)'s Avatar
    The surface will never dethrone paper and I never remember reading anything claims it would. The credit card never pushed cash completely out the door nor will the surface push paper.

    Twitter: @PhotographyET
    But products like Surface Studio and the emphasis on "creators" shows that Microsoft wants to pit it against paper.
    12-19-2017 12:57 AM
  6. Najo's Avatar
    It has replaced my daily journal, to do list, the need to print/ sign/ scan documents, and I no longer print and carry manuals/ procedures. So while it hasn't completely, it has eliminated a pretty good chunk of paper.
    12-19-2017 06:49 AM
  7. BajanSaint69's Avatar
    I wouldn't say failed, I would say more "hasn't been completely successful yet". Seeing AI will now read handwriting, which will probably move it along, as will having a mobile device with a "notebook" design metaphor. It would be amazing to have a device where you didn't need a keyboard but could just write in it.

    Windows Ink was one of the foundational parts of this, as is the Seeing AI handwriting recognition. I'd agree they want to replace paper, I wouldn't agree that they've failed. This is clearly an ongoing effort.
    12-19-2017 09:44 AM
  8. etphoto's Avatar
    But products like Surface Studio and the emphasis on "creators" shows that Microsoft wants to pit it against paper.
    Microsoft has nothing against paper. I'd say they want to sell products, that is their goal, not to element paper.

    Twitter: @PhotographyET
    12-19-2017 10:31 AM
  9. T Moore's Avatar
    Don't remember MS saying the RT would replace paper or revolutionize the way we write and draw.
    xandros9 likes this.
    12-19-2017 10:59 AM
  10. TechFreak1's Avatar
    But products like Surface Studio and the emphasis on "creators" shows that Microsoft wants to pit it against paper.
    That's you're projection and opinion, not fact :).

    It would be fact if Microsoft had explicitly stated they wanted to push out paper through their Surface tablets.

    Personally, we all should be inking digitally as that means less tress are cut down to make paper and that is way better for the environment and safeguards the planet for future generations.
    Last edited by TechFreak1; 12-28-2017 at 04:18 PM. Reason: Spelling
    xandros9 and jasonxz like this.
    12-19-2017 03:38 PM
  11. fatclue_98's Avatar
    If Microsoft wanted to eliminate paper, why did they drop Windows Journal right before the Anniversary Update and all but cripple older Wacom digitizers. They bought N-Trig and took the axe to note taking capabilities. Drawing and notes are worlds apart.
    12-19-2017 07:21 PM
  12. xandros9's Avatar
    But products like Surface Studio and the emphasis on "creators" shows that Microsoft wants to pit it against paper.
    Sketches and notes aren’t the only things “creators” create. Surface Studio is getting at the digital art and productivity types - we’re talking Photoshop, maybe some lighter duty 3D modeling, etc.
    Adventurer64 and Laura Knotek like this.
    12-19-2017 08:25 PM
  13. Adventurer64's Avatar
    What do you think? Do you use Surface Pro to write and draw?
    Not so much with my SP3, but daily with my SP5 (2017 or whatever it's called). The only writing experience that's been better is when I tried a friends reMarkable tablet. However, the SP5 writing experience is good enough for me.
    12-19-2017 10:12 PM
  14. jasqid's Avatar
    But products like Surface Studio and the emphasis on "creators" shows that Microsoft wants to pit it against paper.
    That not at all what that means. It and Windows 10 is being touted as a tool to create. Content. Art. Documents. Whatever. I'm not seeing how that is meaning to try and kill paper or how anyone could get there.
    xandros9 likes this.
    12-19-2017 10:26 PM
  15. anon(7929613)'s Avatar
    Whatever. I'm not seeing how that is meaning to try and kill paper or how anyone could get there.
    surfacepen.jpg

    surfacepen2.jpg

    This is from Microsoft's official website for Surface Pen. It says, "Buy Surface Pen - Write and Draw naturally | Surface - Microsoft", and "Writes like a pen on paper".

    Well it doesn't. Hence, I cannot use it in place of paper. That's all I wanted to highlight.
    Last edited by Satish Singh; 12-20-2017 at 03:59 AM.
    12-20-2017 03:37 AM
  16. Rowdy Bedsaul's Avatar
    Microsoft launched its first Surface device in 2012 and with it, aimed to revolutionise the way we write and draw besides providing us with a powerful computing experience on a smaller form-factor. After 5 long years and numerous updates, it succeeded in the later but failed in other aspects. I say this because I have seen very few people using Surface to write and draw. I myself do not enjoy writing on it because of the lag issues.

    There are devices like “DOMO nScribe Scribble Pad” that are not only thinner and lighter, but offers better writing experience than Surface. However, they have limited features and not particularly a game changer.

    I think Surface Pro needs further improvements if it wants to dethrone paper.

    What do you think? Do you use Surface Pro to write and draw?
    Go to a college campus and you'll see tons of people using them as paper. especial on an engineering campus. Also all 'artist' that I know have bought a surface or surface clone. Drawing and handwriting on a computer just isn't for everyone.
    jasonxz likes this.
    12-20-2017 07:32 AM
  17. techiez's Avatar
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    This is from Microsoft's official website for Surface Pen. It says, "Buy Surface Pen - Write and Draw naturally | Surface - Microsoft", and "Writes like a pen on paper".

    Well it doesn't. Hence, I cannot use it in place of paper. That's all I wanted to highlight.
    all it means is surface pen can be used just as if you are writing on a paper using pen, using natural flow, you dont need to hold the surface pen as to be perpendicular to the screen.

    if your point is about lag then its valid, see if its an issue with current settings of your specific machine.

    In general I dont think MS is out there to replace paper.
    fatclue_98 likes this.
    12-20-2017 12:21 PM
  18. jnjroach's Avatar
    I gave up paper back with the 2nd Gen Tablet PCs in 2003 which were bulking and heavy. I've been using the Surface line since Gen 1 and I use OneNote and ink all of my notes (again - been doing that since 2003).

    I only read eBooks mainly on my Surface. I use Drawboard PDF for inking and annotating PDFs (I also use this to sign official documents). I ink in Office 365 for all of the feedback on my team's copy.

    I have searchable ink notes dated back 14 years now, I'm even taking up Bullet Journaling for 2018 using OneNote.

    I only just installed a printer because I need to print something to post on my cubical wall due to a work request.


    For me the Surface has replaced paper...
    SvenJ likes this.
    12-23-2017 08:54 PM
  19. mklwrmrdm's Avatar
    I use the SP4 i7 as my daily driver, connected to a 40" 4K tv, the ideal setup for my needs at the moment. Ironically the big display is only used for the browser and some videos. All the rest happens on the small Surface display. Altough the pen is not that precise, and the latency on this model, compared to my Intuos pro, is just plain horrible.. but yet it still has become my one and only device to draw/illustrate on. Mainly because of the ability to see the lines (more or less) appear where you draw them instead of drawing on your desk and see the lines appear on a screen in front of you. Can only dream about what will happen in the future, but I very much like this path they've chosen.
    jasonxz likes this.
    12-27-2017 09:10 AM
  20. indexcards_ink's Avatar
    It's definitely not a failed strategy, but better apps are needed. This was the driving force for me to create my app SPECIFICALLY for windows 10, and specifically at the time for Surface - Index Cards (Index Cards - Home). I love my device, but i knew that a packet of index cards for $2 was more productive than a $2000 machine. This didn't feel right to me! Now I built the app, and i'm happy many people are also using it, and I can tell you i definitely do not use paper any more! Between taking notes on Index Cards, and occasionally storing web clips and data in One Note, i use my surface as a MUCH MORE PRODUCTIVE TOOL THAN PAPER. I can do things on my Index Cards app that you can't do on paper. Also as an aside, I have an iPad Pro with Pen and i can tell you it's not a touch on the Surface Pro. the feel of the Surface Pen is the BEST BAR NONE, and I've played with and experimented with many windows and other devices over the years. And with more advanced devices to come from Microsoft in the future, and with all of us developers continuing to advance the art, I am confident that things will keep getting better - and cooler! :) thanks.

    Prem Sundaram. Developer, Index Cards for Windows 10. www.indexcards.ink
    Anqi Liu likes this.
    12-27-2017 09:22 AM
  21. MacSide's Avatar
    Totally, disagree. I've been paperless for over 2 years now due to the Surface success. OneNote captures everything for me, and a great deal of it is searchable, handwritten notes and documents.

    My Note 8 extends my paperless solution to the phone.

    While I respect the author's opinion, I am living proof that Surface HAS empowered me to be happily paperless.
    12-27-2017 09:51 AM
  22. garak0410's Avatar
    Difficult to really say but I can tell you I rarely use my Surface Book as tablet. I also have a Note 8 and Samsung Tab S3. I can say I use the Stylus on the Note 8 often and with OneNote and then go back to my Surface Book to look at my notes in OneNote. I find use in inking but I could live without it. So wondering if Inking in general is ever going to catch on?
    12-27-2017 09:59 AM
  23. Vincent McLaughlin's Avatar
    I believe "failure", where the pen is concerned, is a matter of perspective. To be honest, I used it for just about everything, when I first got my original Surface Pro. The biggest issue I had with my Surface was the weight. Trying to use it as a regular note taker was a bit more combersom than I originally imagined. So, your point about weight is noted. That's where I think the cancelled Surface Mini would have shined.

    Anyway, even with access to a pen on my Note 8, I don't find myself using it as much as I had originally thought. I think pen features in phones, tablets or PCs depend on the user. As many iPads and Note 8s I've seen used in public or at work, I've not once seen anyone use Apple's Pencil or the Note 8 pen, either.

    So, the real question is, are pen/pencils a failure in general? Outside of the truly and regularly creative bunch, does having access to a pen really matter, outside of a few occasions that you could use the pen, but not required to?
    12-27-2017 10:24 AM
  24. Biff Henderson's Avatar
    I am not aware of any statement from Microsoft that Surface devices are to replace paper. Where does the author get this information to make the condemning statement?

    There is NO attempt to replace paper. As such, there can be no failure of said attempt.

    Surface is a tool that you can use if you so choose. In addition to or instead of paper. The choice is yours.

    So, instead of the author twisting words around to slam Microsoft yet again, perhaps the author should step off.

    That said, I have been inking since Windows XP and my Toshiba convertible tablet. For years I have taken notes using Microsoft OneNote. Lag has never been a concern of mine. Not once. The only thing keeping me from inking is the convenience of writing notes on scrap paper already on my desk. Its not the inking technology, its the convenience.
    12-27-2017 10:26 AM
  25. HeyCori's Avatar
    Like a keyboard, inking has grown beyond pass or fail but whether it works or not. If you want to go full digital, you can. There's OneNote, Windows Ink, and a host of drawing applications that can satisfy just about every situation. Even Edge has a built-in annotation feature. Now it's just up to personal preference and the underlying hardware (Which, IMO, Surface succeeds at).
    12-27-2017 10:33 AM
46 12

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