Are we overlooking the real problem why people aren't using WP? Serious discussion please

Geodude074

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No, making it more like Android isn't the answer. It would kill it off, because there would be no need for it then.

I think you just perfectly explained why people aren't using WP8. Because WP8 is just like iOS, except without the apps.

The world needs Android and iOS, because they are two sides of a coin. Android allows customization, file management, and a multitude of other things. iOs allows a unified OS experience and a safe but locked-down ecosystem.

So where does WP8 fit into this? WP8 attempts to be like iOS, catering to the masses of average users who buy a smart phone for all the non smartphone reasons, except the problem is, iOS preceded it and has a much better app ecosystem. So why would anyone switch over to WP8 if they're already on iOS?
 

MDMcAtee

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I think you just perfectly explained why people aren't using WP8. Because WP8 is just like iOS, except without the apps.

The world needs Android and iOS, because they are two sides of a coin. Android allows customization, file management, and a multitude of other things. iOs allows a unified OS experience and a safe but locked-down ecosystem.

So where does WP8 fit into this? WP8 attempts to be like iOS, catering to the masses of average users who buy a smart phone for all the non smartphone reasons, except the problem is, iOS preceded it and has a much better app ecosystem. So why would anyone switch over to WP8 if they're already on iOS?
Absolutely and is exactly why Microsoft has to stop targeting Apple and concentrate on wooing those who are on Android. They won't accomplish this by remaining locked down like IOS. They need to allow what those who are on Android some of the same basic functions that is taken for granted,and encorporate them into the os(familiarity) . They also have to go after the high-end market with top of the line specs on a real flagship phone even if the os doesn't need it to work. Specs matter to many Android users.... It's a mindset that isn't going to change. People believe it is just the app gap keeping it from really taking off.... It's not and until Microsoft has a understanding of this WP will not offer enough to make folks take it serious enough to change with the numbers they are after.

The iPhone doesn't have to do much changing to be a big seller....WP needs a new direction and I am hoping that the next release will supply it.
 

humanhowever

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I have a few work colleagues who once owned a WP7 device. The inability to do anything on that device they said, was so bad they moved away from WP. Simple things, like drag and drop to move stuff onto the phone.

I have managed to convince many people to use WP as their main phone (at the expense of having a 520 which I "lend out" for them to use for a week or so), but once again, the same old things come up. Apps. Apps. Apps. There are those who would have us believe the app gap doesn't exist, and maybe not to them, but to others it does. And it hurts.
 

MaxyBley

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I agree with Jazmac. Microsoft should make a deal with the carriers or something to teach their Rep people.
 
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MSFTisMIA

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Maybe its just me but I'd have killed off all the 512MB devices. Make cuts in other areas to be cheap but make the new floor as 1GB RAM. Why? Makes it easier for devs to not have to code for 512MB.

Posting 1+1 Style!
 

tgp

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Maybe its just me but I'd have killed off all the 512MB devices. Make cuts in other areas to be cheap but make the new floor as 1GB RAM. Why? Makes it easier for devs to not have to code for 512MB.

Yeah but those pennies saved add up when you're working with millions of parts. I'm sure they calculated cost vs. return, and decided that keeping the 512MB devices around was worth it.
 

MSFTisMIA

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Yeah but those pennies saved add up when you're working with millions of parts. I'm sure they calculated cost vs. return, and decided that keeping the 512MB devices around was worth it.

I get you, but you can argue that the Lumia brand, especially in some markets is still overpriced and not hitting the target audience. Even the mighty Samsung who has a phone in every price segment imaginable is going to kill off some lines.
 

fatclue_98

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There's an old saying that you never have a second chance to make a first impression. Most of the smartphone-buying public knows iPhone and Android. That's a given since those two own roughly 90% of the market. On either of those, you can put a favorite picture of your kids, your spouse or whatever and remove all but a few docked icons and leave a clean home screen. You can't do that with WP, you'll end up with a mostly black screen and the few icons you have are forced to the top of the screen. People are creatures of habit and they won't try something new if it isn't vaguely familiar. Apps look and feel similar regardless of platform so there's nothing really mind-blowing there. On Android you can have apps behave differently just depending on the OEM skin, which is why so many go with the "vanilla" Nexus devices, among other reasons.

Forget the app gap, forget flagships and forget specs. If Microsoft doesn't give WP devices "curb appeal", they'll always be in this rut. The One M8 is a perfect example. It's identical to its Android cousin and yet it isn't making a dent in WP sales. I may be wrong, it's happened many times before, but I'll be willing to wager that W10 addresses the visuals when the final version is released.
 

psudotechzealot

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What Microsoft really lacks right now is THE device. the perfect mid range one.
.
Speak of perfect mid range WP, I believe Microsoft should abandon their mid range WP philosophy in 2015, and implement what One+one/Xiaomi/Meizu is doing for the flagship/mid range phones. Meaning, beefing up the specs(2 GB of Ram, 1080p, solid cam, etc) and selling it around the 200-350 price point.
 

MSFTisMIA

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Speak of perfect mid range WP, I believe Microsoft should abandon their mid range WP philosophy in 2015, and implement what One+one/Xiaomi/Meizu is doing for the flagship/mid range phones. Meaning, beefing up the specs(2 GB of Ram, 1080p, solid cam, etc) and selling it around the 200-350 price point.

The 830 is the perfect example. I like the speed on the phone, especially for an S400 chip. Design is nice enough and the camera is more than adequate. Yet in some markets it is selling in the same price range as the OnePlusOne and Z3 Compact. What?

Man, they should have dropped the price on this bad boy by $75 and sell it as is - that would have made a tremendous difference. Cut some of the other lines out and keep the offerings small but competitive pricing wise.
 

EasilyTheBest

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But... neither of you have any data to back that up. For what it's worth, I just did a few web searches and everything I've seen shows that Windows Phone market share in the UK actually declined in Q3 2104 and that because of the 6/6+, iPhone market share increased. So, you know, there's that.


The Nokia Lumia 520 has been the biggest selling pre paid phone in the UK for the last 12 months.
 

docfreed

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Smack on the money - it's neither the apps nor the phones - MS (and like RIM before this) has never figured out what attracts customers and neither will be much of a success going forward. And the real customer is not only the buying consumer but the carriers - neither company can be successful if they don't woo the carriers who have an absolute stranglehold on the US phone business. Blackberry is dying the death of a thousand cuts and MS will throw money at a dying business until the board of directors tells Nadella to kill WP. Ultimately we lose and the cellphone business will be a duopoly of Android and IOS and two carriers AT&T and Verizon

There's an old saying that you never have a second chance to make a first impression. Most of the smartphone-buying public knows iPhone and Android. That's a given since those two own roughly 90% of the market. On either of those, you can put a favorite picture of your kids, your spouse or whatever and remove all but a few docked icons and leave a clean home screen. You can't do that with WP, you'll end up with a mostly black screen and the few icons you have are forced to the top of the screen. People are creatures of habit and they won't try something new if it isn't vaguely familiar. Apps look and feel similar regardless of platform so there's nothing really mind-blowing there. On Android you can have apps behave differently just depending on the OEM skin, which is why so many go with the "vanilla" Nexus devices, among other reasons.

Forget the app gap, forget flagships and forget specs. If Microsoft doesn't give WP devices "curb appeal", they'll always be in this rut. The One M8 is a perfect example. It's identical to its Android cousin and yet it isn't making a dent in WP sales. I may be wrong, it's happened many times before, but I'll be willing to wager that W10 addresses the visuals when the final version is released.
 

jonnaver

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Absolutely and is exactly why Microsoft has to stop targeting Apple and concentrate on wooing those who are on Android. They won't accomplish this by remaining locked down like IOS. They need to allow what those who are on Android some of the same basic functions that is taken for granted,and encorporate them into the os(familiarity)

I agree but it'll never happen though. That's one area where MS and Apple have a lot in common, they're firm believers in locking things down.
 

MSFTisMIA

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I agree but it'll never happen though. That's one area where MS and Apple have a lot in common, they're firm believers in locking things down.

That's the issue here. I was hopeful they would open up even a few more of the APIs for developers but that's not the case. With all the great photo apps in the app store, for devices with a physical camera button I still cannot for example set proshot to be my camera default. And with all the great weather apps in the marketplace, I'm stuck with the MSN weather app as the only thing allowed to run on glance for phones that support it.

There are enough little changes like this that doesn't kill the overall user experience but makes phones more unquestionably unique for users.
 

fatclue_98

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That's the issue here. I was hopeful they would open up even a few more of the APIs for developers but that's not the case. With all the great photo apps in the app store, for devices with a physical camera button I still cannot for example set proshot to be my camera default. And with all the great weather apps in the marketplace, I'm stuck with the MSN weather app as the only thing allowed to run on glance for phones that support it.

There are enough little changes like this that doesn't kill the overall user experience but makes phones more unquestionably unique for users.

Windows Mobile had these choices. Problem is, too many people complained about WM's endless menus and sub-menus. It's a catch-22 for MS, damned if you do and double-damned if you don't.
 

MSFTisMIA

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Windows Mobile had these choices. Problem is, too many people complained about WM's endless menus and sub-menus. It's a catch-22 for MS, damned if you do and double-damned if you don't.

No sub menu necessary. To avoid duplication you can handle it one of two ways:

1) list it both in the settings of the app and in the corresponding main setting that it applied to - in this example would be the settings of the photo app + the main camera setting.

Or

2) the modern solution is have the option in the app's settings be a shortcut to the main setting to enable/disable it. This is already used for ha doing the lock screen for some apps.

I get the extra work on the back end for MSFT, but they can limit this still to hardware with camera buttons only. Not sure why leverage existing design is such pulling teeth...
 

fatclue_98

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Not sure why leverage existing design is such pulling teeth...

I'm in the design/build industry and I totally get your frustration. It seems every kid coming out of college with a degree wants to leave his/her mark in the world. Good design is meant to be improved, not discarded for the sake of change. Is there any "master" settings area better than Control Panel on PCs? I realize mobile displays have real estate concerns so each app needs its own settings within the app, but those should be minimal settings for one-time use like camera scenes. Most of us set our devices to our preferences and rarely go back. Why should rarely used settings clutter an app's UI? Am I making any sense?
 

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