Benchmarks are out - Surface 3's performance is slightly better than HP Stream 11

[TLRtheory]

PS: I'm enjoying the heck out of mine, feels as responsive as my sold SP3 for practically everything. Cherry Trail is far from a disappointment.

Yep, this happens every single generation. People just don't seem to understand the cost that goes into digitizers, fast memory chips, solid-state storage, high-resolution screens, the trademark kickstand and premium materials.

And I'd definitely have to agree with the notion it's far from a disappointment. Playing Modern Combat 5 on my Surface 3 was far more solid than I'd have expected after seeing the Venue 8 struggle on the same game.

 

[Geodude074]

There's always some attempt to suggest Surface tablets are somehow not worth their price when they're released. Practically every thread or article on the SP3 has people moaning that its too expensive. I see this comparison of the S3 and cheaper devices as having the choice between two cars, a Lada and a Ferrari. They both do the same thing essentially but one does it in a lot more style and gives you a lot more for your money. I for one prefer the Ferrari experience over the cheap Lada but if cheap and cheerful is what you want, that's good. For people who enjoy a premium experience, the S3 is the only way to fly.

PS: I'm enjoying the heck out of mine, feels as responsive as my sold SP3 for practically everything. Cherry Trail is far from a disappointment.

That's a poor comparison, since in your example the Ferrari and the Lada both make the same HP and both perform about equally. There are $200 laptops everywhere that have the same performance of the Surface 3. Here's one from Dell:

Inspiron 14 3000 Series Laptop | Dell

 

[Geodude074]

Yep, this happens every single generation. People just don't seem to understand the cost that goes into digitizers, fast memory chips, solid-state storage, high-resolution screens, the trademark kickstand and premium materials.

And I'd definitely have to agree with the notion it's far from a disappointment. Playing Modern Combat 5 on my Surface 3 was far more solid than I'd have expected after seeing the Venue 8 struggle on the same game.

Fast memory chips? Solid state storage? Both of these don't exist in the Surface 3 lol. Surface 3 has an eMMC drive that's slower than comparable $200 laptops.

You can find high res screens, once again, in $200 Android tablets these days. You don't have to spend $500 today to get a Full HD screen on a tablet.

Kickstand increasing the price? That's laughable. $10 cases have kickstands.

The only thing that would increase the price would be the digitizer, but is it worth $500? I think not.

 

[Geodude074]

There's a demo video at the end of the article that shows how DirectX/GPU can improve everyday tasks.

Direct link

Not a very good video, since it mainly showcased Windows 8 vs Windows 7.

 

[HeyCori]

Not a very good video, since it mainly showcased Windows 8 vs Windows 7.

...GPU performance increases are nice, but how much of a benefit will that be to the average consumer outside of gaming?

...The benefits of increased GPU performance is a moot point

I feel a strawman argument coming on. Trying to dismiss the facts because a comparison was made using Windows 7 is a deliberate derailment of the argument at hand. It was in fact you that asked what benefit is the GPU outside of gaming. That whole article I posted is about how Windows 8 uses the GPU to make the entire OS faster. Better GPU = Better performing operating system. Microsoft flat out proved it. Just to be clear, there is no argument here. The articles shows exactly how Windows 8 leverages the GPU to increase system performance. You can disagree if you want but that's on you.

 

[James8561]

For the price, Surface 3 should have been pushed out with Core M.

How misinformed. Do you know the price of a Core M CPU? $281 each according to intel website.
How can any company possibly fit a $300 CPU into a $500 tablet.

Fast memory chips? Solid state storage? Both of these don't exist in the Surface 3 lol. Surface 3 has an eMMC drive that's slower than comparable $200 laptops.

You can find high res screens, once again, in $200 Android tablets these days. You don't have to spend $500 today to get a Full HD screen on a tablet.

Kickstand increasing the price? That's laughable. $10 cases have kickstands.

The only thing that would increase the price would be the digitizer, but is it worth $500? I think not.

eMMC is solid state storage. Solid state storage is any storage device that doesn't have moving part.

screen quality isn't about resolution. sure those $200 android tablets may have high ppi, but does it have the grayscale, color gamut, and contrast levels of the chart-leading S3? the S3 screen is even better than the ipad air 2, which before used to top the charts

if you don't like the kickstand, why not just get a cheap android tablet with a wobbling stand case?

Does any other tablet besides a few Windows ones have active digitizer? How about the pen-like design and experience of the Surface? I don't think so. exclusivity costs.

Do these android tablets have the latest version of android? Heck less than 1% of devices run android 5.1.1 Google doesn't believe in updating devices, rather they want to make you buy new devices for new software. Microsoft continue to update surfaces for years down the line. Most laptops don't get that level of length and fast support.

Also, why even post on a tablet forum comparing laptops? apple and oranges? if you want laptops, we have a dedicated forum for laptops so go post there.

 

[cygnus11]

Fast memory chips? Solid state storage? Both of these don't exist in the Surface 3 lol. Surface 3 has an eMMC drive that's slower than comparable $200 laptops.

You can find high res screens, once again, in $200 Android tablets these days. You don't have to spend $500 today to get a Full HD screen on a tablet.

Kickstand increasing the price? That's laughable. $10 cases have kickstands.

The only thing that would increase the price would be the digitizer, but is it worth $500? I think not.

I have used $200 android tablets, and there is clearly a difference in build quality between them and the Surface line. I even use a more expensive android tablet on a regular basis (nvidia shield), and at $300+ that device build quality is noticeably inferior to my Surface 2.

The kickstand is unique among tablets and works really well. What other tablet has such an elegant integrated kick stand? And using cheap cases to provide the same function is just not the same.

And the digitizer pen functionality is a great feature. This alone could easily be worth at least a $100 premium. Add all these things together plus the fact that it is supported by MS, and the current Surface 3 price is justifiable for many people.

I'm not saying that there isn't a place for the cheaper windows laptops. But for people who value high end devices and have the money to spend on them, the Surface 3 is more than fairly priced IMO.

 

[Geodude074]

I feel a strawman argument coming on. Trying to dismiss the facts because a comparison was made using Windows 7 is a deliberate derailment of the argument at hand. It was in fact you that asked what benefit is the GPU outside of gaming. That whole article I posted is about how Windows 8 uses the GPU to make the entire OS faster. Better GPU = Better performing operating system. Microsoft flat out proved it. Just to be clear, there is no argument here. The articles shows exactly how Windows 8 leverages the GPU to increase system performance. You can disagree if you want but that's on you.

Ironically, you're the one arguing the strawman. I wasn't trying to dismiss facts, I was pointing out that the video you provided was a poor example, since it only showed Windows 8 vs Windows 7, and not GPU performance.

Case in point, I have Windows 8 on my desktop, with a Core i7 with an HD 4600. I also have a discrete Nvidia GPU.

Guess what? There's zero difference at all with OS performance with the Nvidia GPU enabled or disabled, even though the Nvidia GPU is nearly 50x faster than the HD 4600.

Faster "every day" performance because of a faster GPU is a moot point. Once the GPU is good enough for daily tasks, the benefits of a faster GPU are negligible. My ancient 2005 IBM T40 laptop with it's integrated GPU is good enough. OS performance with faster GPU is negligible.

 

[Geodude074]

How misinformed. Do you know the price of a Core M CPU? $281 each according to intel website.
How can any company possibly fit a $300 CPU into a $500 tablet.

And yet Asus managed to put a $300 CPU into a $700 laptop e.g. UX305, which also comes with 8 GB RAM and a 256 SSD (an actual SSD, not an eMMC flash based drive). Surface 3 with Atom x7, 4 GB RAM and 128 GB eMMC? $600. For $100 more you sure are getting a lot more for your money. If Asus can do it, I'm sure Microsoft can.

eMMC is solid state storage. Solid state storage is any storage device that doesn't have moving part.

That's just arguing semantics. I guess my 1 GB USB 1.0 flash drive from 2008 can be considered solid state storage as well. Woopty doo. Doesn't mean anything when it comes to performance.

if you don't like the kickstand, why not just get a cheap android tablet with a wobbling stand case?

I never said I didn't like the kickstand. I stated that it's not a justifiable reason why a device that performs as well as $200 devices, now costs $500.

Does any other tablet besides a few Windows ones have active digitizer? How about the pen-like design and experience of the Surface? I don't think so. exclusivity costs.

Yes, a quick Google search will find what you want. There have been many Wacom Windows tablets, besides the Surface line. The stylus is a $50 add-on, yet another overpriced accessory.

Do these android tablets have the latest version of android? Heck less than 1% of devices run android 5.1.1 Google doesn't believe in updating devices, rather they want to make you buy new devices for new software. Microsoft continue to update surfaces for years down the line. Most laptops don't get that level of length and fast support.

Yes they do, they're called Nexus devices for a reason. There's the Nexus 2013, a $230 device with a full HD screen that was beautifully calibrated. Google proved to the world that you don't need to spend $500 on a device to have a tablet with a world-class screen - something Microsoft still needs to learn.

 

[Geodude074]

I have used $200 android tablets, and there is clearly a difference in build quality between them and the Surface line. I even use a more expensive android tablet on a regular basis (nvidia shield), and at $300+ that device build quality is noticeably inferior to my Surface 2.

You bought the wrong Android tablets. When it comes to screen quality, $350 Android tablets > Surface 3 e.g. Samsung Galaxy Tab S 8.4, then there's the 10.5 version for $400.

 

[HeyCori]

Ironically, you're the one arguing the strawman. I wasn't trying to dismiss facts

And yet you just did.

 

[cygnus11]

You bought the wrong Android tablets. When it comes to screen quality, $350 Android tablets > Surface 3 e.g. Samsung Galaxy Tab S 8.4, then there's the 10.5 version for $400.

Notice that you had to go up to a $400 tablet as an example of a comparable screen to the surface. Add pen functionality to that plus the integrated kick stand and full windows and we are getting pretty close to surface pricing.

 

[illegaloperation]

You can find high res screens, once again, in $200 Android tablets these days. You don't have to spend $500 today to get a Full HD screen on a tablet.

Kickstand increasing the price? That's laughable. $10 cases have kickstands.

The only thing that would increase the price would be the digitizer, but is it worth $500? I think not.

And that's the problem: you take into no account things that are not easily measurable such as color accuracy, viewing angle, and touchscreen responsiveness.

Also, I just laughed when you compare the kickstand on a $10 case to the kickstand on the Surface 3.

Notice that you had to go up to a $400 tablet as an example of a comparable screen to the surface. Add pen functionality to that plus the integrated kick stand and full windows and we are getting pretty close to surface pricing.

The Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1 2014 Edition (Wi-Fi), White 32GB has a MSRP of $599.99.

 

[illegaloperation]

The Surface are the Cadillac of Windows tablets.

Of cause there will always be debates about whether you should buy the Cadillac, but don't expect the Cadillac to sell for the price of the KIA.

 

[Wildo6882]

I'm an Android guy through and through. Love Google. But I spent the extra on the Surface 3 and can definitely see why it's worth it. The build is impeccable. I've never seen an Android tablet with this quality of build. The screen is also beautiful with no light bleed whatsoever. You definitely can't say that about any Nexus tablet I've ever used. This thing is built like a classy, premium, tank. I wanted a tablet with some additional features, and the S3 fit the bill perfectly. It's plenty fast for what the average consumer would use it for. Are you getting a TON more performance than a $300-400 tablet? No. But you're getting a lot more in the total package.

 

[James8561]

And yet Asus managed to put a $300 CPU into a $700 laptop e.g. UX305, which also comes with 8 GB RAM and a 256 SSD (an actual SSD, not an eMMC flash based drive). Surface 3 with Atom x7, 4 GB RAM and 128 GB eMMC? $600. For $100 more you sure are getting a lot more for your money. If Asus can do it, I'm sure Microsoft can.

Look at that. you have to go to a more expensive plastic device that's not even a tablet to match the specs. Can the Asus keyboard be removed? does it have a kick stand? pen input? metal chassis?
on one hand you're complaining about price, on the other hand you're advocating a more expensive device. choose a side!

BTW don't you know that it's near impossible to put a SSD into a small tablet? all small tablets use eMMC. only the SP uses SSD because those are big. even then, the SP SSD is the small form factor M.2 type, not the 7mm 2.5" drives in laptops.

yes your flash drive from '08 is considered solid state storage. we have had solid state storage for a long time. the word solid state storage doesn't have any implication about performance in itself since there have been solid state storage that have worse performance than hard disk drives in some aspects.

You have to bring out several devices across multiple OS to prove your fact. Who wants to carry a laptop and a Nexus and another stylus tablet? How will you solve the painful data syncing between those devices? why bother
The simple fact that you cannot find a single device that is cheaper than the Surface 3 that does what it does shows that you have no idea what you're talking about. Surface moto is one device replaces all, in this case it replaces your laptop and 2 tablets. That in itself saves you a ton of $

 

[Geodude074]

Look at that. you have to go to a more expensive plastic device that's not even a tablet to match the specs. Can the Asus keyboard be removed? does it have a kick stand? pen input? metal chassis?
on one hand you're complaining about price, on the other hand you're advocating a more expensive device. choose a side!$

Buy ASUS Transformer Book T300 Chi Signature Edition 2 in 1 PC - Microsoft Store

Asus T300 Chi.

$700 for a Core M laptop/tablet hybrid, 4 GB RAM, 128 GB SSD, all aluminum body, keyboard dock included.

Surface 3 with equivalent RAM/storage and keyboard? $730.

Once again, if Asus can do it, there's no reason why Microsoft can't.

I brought up the UX305 because that would be a better price/performance ratio with a Core M.

 

[Geodude074]

Notice that you had to go up to a $400 tablet as an example of a comparable screen to the surface. Add pen functionality to that plus the integrated kick stand and full windows and we are getting pretty close to surface pricing.

$350 tablet actually. And the screen is BETTER than the Surface 3.

You can find $200 Android tablets with equivalent screens to the Surface 3. That's my point.

 

[Geodude074]

And that's the problem: you take into no account things that are not easily measurable such as color accuracy, viewing angle, and touchscreen responsiveness.

Also, I just laughed when you compare the kickstand on a $10 case to the kickstand on the Surface 3.



The Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1 2014 Edition (Wi-Fi), White 32GB has a MSRP of $599.99.

When did I talk about the Galaxy Note 2014 edition? MSRP of $600? Have you tried looking at Amazon first? Now that's laughable... lol.

 

[Geodude074]

And yet you just did.

No I didn't. Nice job avoiding my entire argument though. Strawman much?