Jas00555
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Does the Dell Venue 11 include an active digitizer? Is Dell's support even close to the level of Microsoft's? You have to look further than spec sheets for the value of a product.
Benchmarks are out - Surface 3's performance is slightly better than HP Stream 11
- Thread starter Geodude074
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Does the Dell Venue 11 include an active digitizer? Is Dell's support even close to the level of Microsoft's? You have to look further than spec sheets for the value of a product.
HeyCori
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Bro, I don't think he knows the difference between sale price and MSRP. Abandon ship. There is no hope!
TLRtheory
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Wow... you really aren't doing well at understanding that performance isn't the decisive factor of price.
Also, including a keyboard for free doesn't mean it's going to have anywhere near the grade of technology integrated here. I'm starting to see exactly what defect makes you think a $10 fake leather case compares to the Surface's integrated kick stand. Also, explain what relevance a discounted-over-time price (orig. $1078) has over something that just came out.
I'll wait.
...tell me about it.
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Yes, a quick Google search will reveal that the Dell DOES include an active digitizer.
Comparing support is subjective. One person could say that Microsoft provides terrible support, another person could say that Dell provides terrible support. It isn't as quantifiable as a spec sheet.
What's the point of comparing the original MSRP vs the actual price that CUSTOMERS ARE GOING TO BUY IN HUGE RETAIL STORES LIKE BEST BUY?!
The only reason why you'd compare the MSRP to MSRP, when the actual price is HUNDREDS less, is if you wanted to make an asinine comparison that holds no relevance in the real world.
Wow, you completely dodged every one of my questions and didn't answer a single thing.
Admit it, the Surface 3 is overpriced for what it is. It offers a slow Atom processor when its competitors have Core Ms. It makes you pay an additional $130 for the keyboard, when competitors include it for free. It only gives 2 GB RAM in a $500 configuration, when 1) Those are the kind of specs you'd expect to find in a sub $200 Windows device. 2) For a $500 Windows device, that's just inexcusable.
The Surface 3 is slow for its class, even an iPad Air 2 will destroy it in performance. An HP Stream 11, a $200 Windows laptop, has near identical CPU performance, AND faster disk performance (go look it up). And equivalently priced devices are all significantly faster, have more RAM, and have digitizers.
The only thing you're paying for is the shiny Surface logo on the back, and that incredibly useful kickstand that can't even be used comfortably on your lap. Enjoy it lol.
HeyCori
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When you look at the difference between MSRP, sale price, being on sale and how they all relate, then the comparison starts to fall apart. The Dell Venue Pro 11 with Core M is currently on sale at Best Buy for $500, a discount from its regular price of $750. You are comparing a $750 device to a $500 device. So as you say, we are talking hundreds less.
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exaybachay01
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It's a little sad to see that this thread is just about one step away from outright name calling.
The fact that the dell venue 11 pro is being thrown into the ring now is an interesting move. I can understand that it's based on the sales price at BestBuy (key on "sale") right now for $499.99. Its normally $750, and just was last week, though, interestingly enough, it was on sale for $599.99 from 4/26-5/2 (I know this as I was tempted to pick it up). The comparison to the S3 is on point due to Tue accessories available, the form factor and ideal practical use. I keep finding myself on the teetering point, but am hoping my teetering stays where it is till Sunday when the price will invariably go back up.
I've tried the DV11P (7140) at 3 different bestbuy's and have noticed that they all run rather hot. I made sure they were all set to neutral states at easy store and they never really got " cool". I tried opening a few browser tabs or ran a video and the device got hotter, uncomfortably so. I tried the same thing on the display S3, Yoga Tablet 2 10.1" w/ Windows, Transformer T100, unhanded 10.1 and stream 11that were they. They all were in a low or cool state when neutral, and none got hot in the minor test/play time. I thought it may have been those display units of the DV11P (thought same issue at 3 different stores seemed suspect), so I took the search online. The consensus on lots of the reviews was that, while the device waswas great, they all cited the device as running hot. Now most of the sites received dv11p's with the 5y71 chip (as opposed to bb's 7y10c), 8gb (vs 4) and 128bg ssd (vs 64gb), so it could be an issue with what they had, but is interesting none the less. It should also be states that the device, as they received equated out to around $950-$1100 (depending on what was cited).
The other element that comes into play, since I stated earlier being on the teetering point in switching device for device, is the add-ons. The device as is at best buy comes with a thin thin (listed as "slim" online) attachable keyboard, that retails separately for $100. They keys are thin, have no real travel or give and make for a difficult typing experience (although training oneself over time, could probably be adaptable). There is a "mobile" keyboard available online and in stores that goes between $109-$159 that includes it's own battery (but doesn't have Backlit keys) that extends the battery time by 30-40%. Then there's Dell's active stylus (I believe it's a synaptics digitizer on the device if I read correctly) that sells for $30.
I will admit, and have admitted a couple times in this drawn out (sorry) and exhaustive (sorry) post that I like the DV11P 7140, in theory. The fact that it runs hot for some reasons, is a deterrent, as well as the aspect ratio being 16:9. At best buy the device sits right next to the Yoga tablet 2 10.1" w/ windows, which is 16:10 ratio, but on a 10.1" and looks nice from a readability standpoint. I haven't seen many reviews of the specific Best Buy version of the device so am not sure what the benchmarks are, as I would assume that the 5y71 model w/ 8gb ram is a different beast entirely. If someone has the 5y10c model, please tell us what your experience is and any numbers you can supply to help.
I understand that the main detractor people have who dislike the S3 centers on its Atom x7 processor, and wish it had a core m, but feasibly I think that would drive up the price and then you might as well be getting a pro (heck some people think the SP4 will come with a 5y71 or newer high end coreM chip). The other core M devices I have seen out there are the T300 Chi ($699, 5y10, 12.5" no back lit keys, Bluetooth KB only, no full USB), the aspire switch 12 ($699, 12.5", 5y10, no backlit keys, no trackpad, Yes Full USB, very few reviews), Asus zenbook ux305 ($699, 5y10, laptop, 13.3" screen), yoga 3 pro ($1349, 5y71, 13.3" screen, convertible style). Unfortunately that doesn't really have anything, save for the BestBuy only model of DV11P, that matches the size/form-factor of the surface 3.
I think there is for sure a stance that can be taken easily for or against the Surface 3, and in the end it comes down to what you want a device to do, that determines if it will be best for you or not. Again, if anyone has the BestBuy specific Dell Venue 11 Pro 7140 4gb ram 64gb ROM Core M 5y10c with slim keyboard, please share your experience with the device and any benchmark numbers you are able to provide to help us see the best comparison in size (and at least this week price wise) to the S3. It would be very interesting and fun to see.
The fact that the dell venue 11 pro is being thrown into the ring now is an interesting move. I can understand that it's based on the sales price at BestBuy (key on "sale") right now for $499.99. Its normally $750, and just was last week, though, interestingly enough, it was on sale for $599.99 from 4/26-5/2 (I know this as I was tempted to pick it up). The comparison to the S3 is on point due to Tue accessories available, the form factor and ideal practical use. I keep finding myself on the teetering point, but am hoping my teetering stays where it is till Sunday when the price will invariably go back up.
I've tried the DV11P (7140) at 3 different bestbuy's and have noticed that they all run rather hot. I made sure they were all set to neutral states at easy store and they never really got " cool". I tried opening a few browser tabs or ran a video and the device got hotter, uncomfortably so. I tried the same thing on the display S3, Yoga Tablet 2 10.1" w/ Windows, Transformer T100, unhanded 10.1 and stream 11that were they. They all were in a low or cool state when neutral, and none got hot in the minor test/play time. I thought it may have been those display units of the DV11P (thought same issue at 3 different stores seemed suspect), so I took the search online. The consensus on lots of the reviews was that, while the device waswas great, they all cited the device as running hot. Now most of the sites received dv11p's with the 5y71 chip (as opposed to bb's 7y10c), 8gb (vs 4) and 128bg ssd (vs 64gb), so it could be an issue with what they had, but is interesting none the less. It should also be states that the device, as they received equated out to around $950-$1100 (depending on what was cited).
The other element that comes into play, since I stated earlier being on the teetering point in switching device for device, is the add-ons. The device as is at best buy comes with a thin thin (listed as "slim" online) attachable keyboard, that retails separately for $100. They keys are thin, have no real travel or give and make for a difficult typing experience (although training oneself over time, could probably be adaptable). There is a "mobile" keyboard available online and in stores that goes between $109-$159 that includes it's own battery (but doesn't have Backlit keys) that extends the battery time by 30-40%. Then there's Dell's active stylus (I believe it's a synaptics digitizer on the device if I read correctly) that sells for $30.
I will admit, and have admitted a couple times in this drawn out (sorry) and exhaustive (sorry) post that I like the DV11P 7140, in theory. The fact that it runs hot for some reasons, is a deterrent, as well as the aspect ratio being 16:9. At best buy the device sits right next to the Yoga tablet 2 10.1" w/ windows, which is 16:10 ratio, but on a 10.1" and looks nice from a readability standpoint. I haven't seen many reviews of the specific Best Buy version of the device so am not sure what the benchmarks are, as I would assume that the 5y71 model w/ 8gb ram is a different beast entirely. If someone has the 5y10c model, please tell us what your experience is and any numbers you can supply to help.
I understand that the main detractor people have who dislike the S3 centers on its Atom x7 processor, and wish it had a core m, but feasibly I think that would drive up the price and then you might as well be getting a pro (heck some people think the SP4 will come with a 5y71 or newer high end coreM chip). The other core M devices I have seen out there are the T300 Chi ($699, 5y10, 12.5" no back lit keys, Bluetooth KB only, no full USB), the aspire switch 12 ($699, 12.5", 5y10, no backlit keys, no trackpad, Yes Full USB, very few reviews), Asus zenbook ux305 ($699, 5y10, laptop, 13.3" screen), yoga 3 pro ($1349, 5y71, 13.3" screen, convertible style). Unfortunately that doesn't really have anything, save for the BestBuy only model of DV11P, that matches the size/form-factor of the surface 3.
I think there is for sure a stance that can be taken easily for or against the Surface 3, and in the end it comes down to what you want a device to do, that determines if it will be best for you or not. Again, if anyone has the BestBuy specific Dell Venue 11 Pro 7140 4gb ram 64gb ROM Core M 5y10c with slim keyboard, please share your experience with the device and any benchmark numbers you are able to provide to help us see the best comparison in size (and at least this week price wise) to the S3. It would be very interesting and fun to see.
TLRtheory
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It's a good thing that components outside of CPU don't cost money to manufacture and distribute... oh wait.
By the by, your questions weren't ignored. The answers (much like many concepts mentioned here) just flew over your head - which will continue happening until you are able to understand that more goes into a product's pricing than CPU thread comparisons.
Yeah... near identical CPU performance. Anyone who's ever built a computer (and a large faction of those who haven't) know that CPU != Overall Performance. I figured you'd have the sense to let this one go after being destroyed on this point so long ago. Especially seeing as the actual assessment of overall performance put the S3 far ahead of this junky screened HP Stream 11 you keep trying to pretend belongs here.
Now this is particularly interesting because you not only confirmed complete lack of understanding of what's under the S3's hood (and outside of it), but also because you just attempted to dismiss someone's words regarding subjective matters... I happen to be using the Surface 3 on my lap now... and have done so with the Surface Pro 1, 2 and 3 prior. Something I'm far from being alone in doing.
(And yes, before you rev up your logical fallacy machine - I know two of those are Panay)
So you already have a hilariously lackluster understanding of technology, but your own statements don't even flow with your logical styling?
That's rather unsettling. For about a month or so, I had a DV11... but mine wasn't the Core M, it was a i5 vPro with 8GB RAM... it got extraordinarily hot on tasks that my Surface Pro 2 didn't even break a sweat on, but with so much of the Core M embracing a fanless future, I'd think things would be different in a DV11 that was powered by a Core M.
...and it is sad that the thread is just a skip away from "You're stupid, No YOU'RE stupid!" but with the initial premise strung together the way it was, it pretty much had to devolve into a food fight (and I'm not even above admitting that I and everyone feeding Geo are fueling the fire).
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theefman
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Fascinating to see someone with such a hate-on for a piece of electronics. Its bordering on a crusade now. Why not just buy what you want and move on, or should we expect to see something on the news soon featuring someone picketing MS HQ in Redmond chanting "the Surface 3 is overpriced, rah, rah rah!" 
It looks like only raw performance worth the money for you, everything else (better design, smaller form factor, better screen, pen input and so on) is just a waste of money. Probably you should not even buy the laptop, you can carry a desktop with you, because for the same amount of money desktops out performance laptops.
Fascinating to see someone with such a hate-on for a piece of electronics. Its bordering on a crusade now. Why not just buy what you want and move on, or should we expect to see something on the news soon featuring someone picketing MS HQ in Redmond chanting "the Surface 3 is overpriced, rah, rah rah!"
Such are the ways of the internet. You'll have one group blindly defending a product/company, another group blindly hating on it/them, and then people in the middle who actually use the product and like it or don't. There will always been fanatics and, at this point, Geo is poking the bear just to poke it for no reason (I won't point out what they really are as it's against the forum rules). Their arguments have meandered from one thing to another and some of their statements, like how a $200 Android tablet matches the display of the Surface 3 (show me one 3:2 10.8" Android tablet with a 1920X1200 display with this level of quality), are outright lies. It's the type of behavior exhibited by certain individuals who enjoy stirring the pot. Best thing anyone can do is to just ignore them. They've said their opinions and lies, some of those have been addressed, it's time to move on.
P.S. That pictures with the "mobile" desktop is hilarious. I'm gonna have to start using that in arguments now.
I can't believe the discussion continued past my free market explanation. The market has decided what the Surface 3 should be priced at, just like every other product for sale in the United States. If any product is truly "overpriced", the market will adjust and the price will come down. However, many products are not truly "overpriced" - just the target market is above the person observing.
Several others have used the car analogy, which is sufficient for this discussion. There is a market for $100K cars, just as there is a market for $20K cars. It does not mean the $100K car is overpriced when observed by someone in the $20K market. It is priced precisely where the market expects it to be.
Then again, apparently rational thought does not apply to this discussion.
Several others have used the car analogy, which is sufficient for this discussion. There is a market for $100K cars, just as there is a market for $20K cars. It does not mean the $100K car is overpriced when observed by someone in the $20K market. It is priced precisely where the market expects it to be.
Then again, apparently rational thought does not apply to this discussion.
Fascinating to see someone with such a hate-on for a piece of electronics. Its bordering on a crusade now. Why not just buy what you want and move on, or should we expect to see something on the news soon featuring someone picketing MS HQ in Redmond chanting "the Surface 3 is overpriced, rah, rah rah!"
I was just waiting to see if someone else figure it out: Geodude is full of sour grapes.
Just look at the thinks he bought:
Motorola Moto G for $150
Nexus 7 2013 for $150
Dell Venue 8 Pro for $150
Deep down, he/she really wants the Surface 3, but cannot afford (or aren't willing) to pay for it, hence his/her need to justify that a $200 tablet is just as great as the Surface 3.
LOL.
I also have an iPad Air 2. My toys below:
Nice job assuming that I'm poor though, that was the funniest baseless assumption yet.
And a $200 Nexus 7 has a better display than the Surface 3.
I have a desktop actually, one that I built myself so it could have the best performance per dollar. Lol.
The Surface 3 under performs for the price, but people can't accept it.
It's a good thing other OEMs don't include their keyboards for free... oh wait.
Since I clearly don't have an understanding of what "performance" means, then would you humor me and explain it then? So CPU/GPU/disk speed/RAM/power draw/etc don't constitute as performance?
Once again, please explain to me how a Surface 3 with an Atom x7 is not under performing compared to the Dell Venue 11 Pro with a Core M, for the same price point. I'm still waiting.
It's only a 7 inch screen! I agree it is a quality display, I own the 2013 N7. But the Surface 3 screen is slightly better quality with more accurate color, and it is 10.6 inches. The size difference alone is worth a $100 premium, don't you agree? Then add features that your $200 Nexus tablet doesn't have (faster processor, more storage, better accessory options, pen support, 802.11ac, FULL WINDOWS, etc.) and we again will get close to the MSRP of the S3.
Sorry, I just couldn't resist making one more post
Do you just not get this concept, or are you just trolling?Great post. I don't think the heat for the Dell Venue 11 Pro would be an issue for most people in tablet mode though, since while holding the tablet in their hands, they most likely won't be doing anything processor intensive.
It's only a 7 inch screen! I agree it is a quality display, I own the 2013 N7. But the Surface 3 screen is slightly better quality with more accurate color, and it is 10.6 inches. The size difference alone is worth a $100 premium, don't you agree? Then add features that your $200 Nexus tablet doesn't have (faster processor, more storage, better accessory options, pen support, 802.11ac, FULL WINDOWS, etc.) and we again will get close to the MSRP of the S3.
Sorry, I just couldn't resist making one more post
If screen size is what you care about, then compare it to the Galaxy Tab S 10.5, which has a BETTER display than the Surface 3, and is only $400.
I understand that they aren't comparable devices, I never meant to compare one device outright to another, even though people keep insinuating that's what I'm doing.
But if you want to find devices with a better display AND CHEAPER, they're out there. If you want to find devices that perform faster AND CHEAPER, they're out there. If you want to find a device in the same class that blows away the Surface when it comes to performance for the price, they're out there.
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