Bring back the gutter

[sp3ci4lk]

I guess you don't know what you are missing until it's gone. But looking at the screenshots from WP8, it just looks so much like a cluttered mess. In comparison, on WP7.5 it's almost like the tiles have "room to breathe", all thanks to the blank space on the right while with WP8 it looks like the phone is about to explode with live tiles. I don't want a ticking live tile bomb! So I sincerely hope that Microsoft is either going to make it possible to arrange tiles in such a way to leave a comparable amount of space blank on the right side or simply make the gutter a show/don't show option somewhere in the settings.

I absolutely love what they are doing with the start screen. In my opinion the resizeable tiles beat folders hands down. But especially with a OS so focussed on having a clean and nice to look at UI, getting the negative space back is important.

Are you disturbed at the "cluttered mess" or that they eliminated your "breathing room"?

In my opinion, Microsoft erred in revealing the new Start screen the way they did. The truth is that, even though tiles can now be resized to one's liking, it can still be made to look exactly like Windows Phone 7's Start screen (sans the "gutter"). I believe they would have spared themselves a lot of negative commentary had they simply introduced a new, "guttlerless" Start screen and simply demonstrated WP8's new ability to resize tiles.

Personally, I really, really like the new Start screen and look forward to picking up a 4.3" 720p Windows Phone 8, but I do believe the way in which they introduced the new Start screen was pretty jarring.

 

[snowmutt]

We can pin any tile we want to our start screen....

In any order....

now any size....

any website, even if not a tile....

we can still dump any "preloaded" garbage without having to root our devices and voiding warranties...

We are not told how many "folders" or "start screens" we are "allowed" to have (5 - 7 in Android, even if you do not want that many or want more)...

If the missing gutter is the worst problem we have, we are a VERY satisfied and happy bunch of WP Geeks, ain't we???

:-D

 

[DanielCeleste]

You can always set all the tile sizes to medium and it should look similar to the way they look now

Sent from my HTC HD7 using Board Express

 

[AngryNil]

The gutter was a massive waste of real estate. Goodbye and thanks for nothing!

Then go and buy an Android device, where you'll be able to install a home screen with icons that are 4x4 pixels in size, with no spacing around them. That, surely, is the best use of screen real estate.

I think it's downright pathetic you have the nerve to proclaim your opinion as definitive and factual - even more pathetic is that if you thought your comment through, then you'd realise Windows Phone is in itself a "massive waste of real estate".

Why do we have oversized panorama titles, why do we only have six artists fitting on a screen at once when scrolling through the Music+Videos hub, why do only four featured apps fit on screen at once in the Marketplace?

In the massive rush of fanboyism that has Surfaced this week, all you people have done is undermine the very principles on which Windows Phone was based on. Being the better platform upgrade-wise than Android. Being the visually appealing, non-cluttered alternative.

Thanks for nothing, community. You're making us all look like the laughing stock of the tech industry.

Like I posted in the other thread: there you go. WOW!! THE GUTTER IS BACK!!!

Now compare it to this:

MILES better!!!

What a load of propanganda-esque trash. It looks terrible because of the mish-mash of the small and medium tiles, and because the gutter is far too wide. You're basically admitting that there's no workaround to keep those who liked the WP7 home screen happy.

You can always set all the tile sizes to medium and it should look similar to the way they look now

No, they span across the entire screen (something I've been against since day one of such "remove the useless bar" suggestions) and limit the number of visible tiles to six. Wherever Microsoft uses tiles in other places, it never makes them go across the whole screen. For a reason.

 

[foosball]

Are you disturbed at the "cluttered mess" or that they eliminated your "breathing room"?

In my opinion, Microsoft erred in revealing the new Start screen the way they did. The truth is that, even though tiles can now be resized to one's liking, it can still be made to look exactly like Windows Phone 7's Start screen (sans the "gutter"). I believe they would have spared themselves a lot of negative commentary had they simply introduced a new, "guttlerless" Start screen and simply demonstrated WP8's new ability to resize tiles.

Personally, I really, really like the new Start screen and look forward to picking up a 4.3" 720p Windows Phone 8, but I do believe the way in which they introduced the new Start screen was pretty jarring.

This is a very interesting observation from the vantage point of marketing and psychology. You are right that they could have spared themselves some grief if they had delivered the news as you suggested.

Nonetheless it does not address the fundamental issue which is providing OS level choices that allow the user to customize Metro while maintaining the Metro experience. As genuine555 put it:

"I think you could go up to Windows Phone 38.5 or whatever, it will always stay that way [limited options] on WP phones!"

 

[rich4A1]

I'm no desinger, and don't know whole lot about those designing principles. That being said, instead of all those designing arguments, I think there is one dominant driving principle underlying the new Start screen: simulate the Win8 experience. That's why the blank on the right is gone, since it's not in Win 8. As a Zune HD owner I don't find it a big deal anyway, and I believe you can achieve that by not placing mini tiles on the very right.

Owning an HD7 for 1.5 years, it is true that I found the size of current square tilesa waste of screen space. It's nice to be able to see the weather info etc, but why it takes so much space to show I have 1 missed call, or 3 updates in Marketplace? Or Facebook app even only uses the corner to show a small number. I'm firmly behind the mini tiles. I realy think it's a significant improvement.

One thing I'd like to see but have not is the utilization of edge gestures such as switching apps from the left. It takesa little learnings, but I think it'll be very efficient.

 

[snowmutt]

Alright, maybe I am truly missing the point here....

First off, I got interested in WP Pre-Mango simply because of the looks of the tiles and start screen. I remember the first time I went to an AT&T shop and made them activate a LG Quantum for me to play with. At first they were a little confused while I was interested, but by the end of my visit, I had the store manager and two employees playing with the thing with me. I left completely convinced that this was something original. I was only tempted by the HP WebOS phones slated to come out, no longer really pumped by Android (although I do love ICS. What a great upgrade for Android users.) Since we all know what happened to WebOS (... moment of silence, please....) I was all in on WP, and dragged my Wife with me. I am a huge cheerleader for it in my town (dominated by Verizon, so no converts yet, but WP 8 is coming) and in my circle of friends and family.

Is there any of us that do not understand where WP is on the mobile food chain? If we enjoy our OS and do not want it to pass the way of WebOS, there HAS to be some serious advances here. WP 8 brings it. On top of that, it brings a cross platform experience that almost DEMANDS any Windows user grab a WP8 device to match. This is what needs to happen.

If you look at what has been successful for Android, Apple, and RIM (traditionally, not where they are now), slamming as much information into start screens and/or menus is what Mobile users want. Ever seen the primary launch screens of an Android phone? They have crammed every favorite into one or two screens, and that's their life blood.

How does WP answer this and still keep the very thing which sets it apart? I was drawn to WP just because of it's slick lines, tiles, and gutter on the start screen. But I want my favorite OS to thrive. I want it to be developed. I want my friends and family on it with me.

Will I miss the traditional start screen? Maybe a little, sorta like I miss my 1976 Dodge Dart. It was my first car (in 1985), a little beat up, but my first. But, there is no way I do not understand I have it better now.

I will sign the petition to allow users to the option to keep the Gutter in WP8. But, really, wouldn't we rather see WP up to 20% or better, a thriving community, and a successful mobile OS than just stick to a dual tile start screen?

Again, guess I am missing the point, because I just do not see it as remotely important, even though I like it.

 

[Jeanclaudebaktiste]

the problem is

you lose information. the small tiles are showing just numbers and are blinking.

now you can have only 6 big squares instead of 8. > lose live information

waht is the problem for the design team to use small tiles AND keep the gutter and the stylish design?

android has whitespace, ios has whitespace betweent the icons. and noone would say: hey there is space lets fill tit up with icons.

i bet in your living room there is a lot of unused whitespace, right. noone (maybe messies) will say: hey there is space, lets bring stuff here. it is unused ...

dont misunderstand me: i came to windows phone BECAUSE of its aesthetics and i like the idea to customize the startscreen. but it should look like the 7.5

OR I WILL NOT UPDATE.

 

[AngryNil]

android has whitespace, ios has whitespace betweent the icons. and noone would say: hey there is space lets fill tit up with icons.

Exactly. Tiles have minimal spacing between each other and hence feel incredibly information-dense; this has to be offset by white space. For those comparing with Windows 8, notice how much of the start screen is not filled by tiles?

I will sign the petition to allow users to the option to keep the Gutter in WP8. But, really, wouldn't we rather see WP up to 20% or better, a thriving community, and a successful mobile OS than just stick to a dual tile start screen?

Again, guess I am missing the point, because I just do not see it as remotely important, even though I like it.

I'm all for Microsoft's new three-size approach, just provide options. It's a fundamental problem with Windows Phone - our way or the highway. Funnily enough, this is the exact opposite of what Windows traditionally is - think the Surface. Microsoft made a light, thin, attractive tablet. You want to run desktop programs and have an i5 processor? No worries, here's the W8 Pro version. You need physical feedback from a keyboard? Here's a Type Cover.

I guess the importance comes from the fact that people want to like what they see on a regular basis. The home screen should look appealing, and for this reason, Android doesn't cut it for me. The gutter serves to even out the visually-heavy tiles and also provide more vertical room (eight medium tiles versus six). I also don't get how Microsoft is doing to roll out 7.8 if no gutter option is included. People will update their phones and suddenly find out fewer of their existing tiles now fit on screen?

 

[foosball]

I'm all for Microsoft's new three-size approach, just provide options. It's a fundamental problem with Windows Phone - our way or the highway.

This is a HUGE problem with Windows Phone. Somebody at MS has decided that WP just doesn't need options and has worked hard to limit them.

I can't think of a single issue where MS has made a design call like on the homescreen and thought to myself- "You know what, I like having less options so that I have less flexibility with my phone and I only want to have the MS way of doing things or nothing at all."

 

[dannejanne]

People are often afraid of changes. Whatever changes it may be. After using the new for a while most settle with it and can see its positive sides. I've been there many times myself. Not this time though I'm all for the new startscreen.

Just saying wait till you TRY the new homescreen before judging it out.

 

[woodsguy]

Below is my little writeup about the home screen and my solution:

With the introduction of WP7.8/8 the updates to the home screen include the elimination of the gutter (the blank space on the right). This in turn will increase the size of the tiles. So the new home screen will now only show 3 rows of medium sized tiles vs the previous 4.5. What I would like to see is the option of increasing the resolution of the home screen so it would show 5 columns of small tiles across vs 4. The medium sized tiles would go back to the size they were in 7.5 and would effectively allow users to bring back or replace the gutter with a column of small tiles (or down the middle). I think a maximum of 5 small tiles across would be fine for my 4" Focus but for the larger phones an option of 6,7, or even 8 would be nice. With the larger screens the tiles are just too big so this would not only prevent them from looking goofy but would allow further customization. The number could just keep increasing with the screen size so that even a future Windows Nook could run WP8 and not look goofy. On the flip side there could also be an option of 3 or 2 small columns as well. This would allow the use more basic and smaller phones/devices (like a watch!)

 

[aubreyq]

Below is my little writeup about the home screen and my solution:

With the introduction of WP7.8/8 the updates to the home screen include the elimination of the gutter (the blank space on the right). This in turn will increase the size of the tiles. So the new home screen will now only show 3 rows of medium sized tiles vs the previous 4.5. What I would like to see is the option of increasing the resolution of the home screen so it would show 5 columns of small tiles across vs 4. The medium sized tiles would go back to the size they were in 7.5 and would effectively allow users to bring back or replace the gutter with a column of small tiles (or down the middle). I think a maximum of 5 small tiles across would be fine for my 4" Focus but for the larger phones an option of 6,7, or even 8 would be nice. With the larger screens the tiles are just too big so this would not only prevent them from looking goofy but would allow further customization. The number could just keep increasing with the screen size so that even a future Windows Nook could run WP8 and not look goofy. On the flip side there could also be an option of 3 or 2 small columns as well. This would allow the use more basic and smaller phones/devices (like a watch!)

Dude, why, oh why, did you resuscitate this horrible thread? *grumble*