Can Surface Go catch up to the entry level iPad?

[anon(50597)]

Who said they’re not learning basic PC skills or that it’s difficult? We’re not talking about people getting into IT, we’re talking about people getting into math, science, etc. They have night courses in the US where you can learn Excel or Word. Extremely simple if necessary.
It’s hard to compare products when we’re talking about different markets. I’ve never heard of Chuwi and have never seen anyone who owns one in the US. I do agree that there is a push to lower priced smartphones and tablets, etc. Of course the market will evolve over time but I think the premise of this thread was can the Surface Go compete with the entry level iPad. Time will tell but I’m not betting money on it.

 

[shaddack]

If you want great battery life, instant on and use mostly browser and Windows Store apps then Windows on ARM might be a better choice.

For me Surface Go will find its niche in users who need a PC, but are extremely mobile and want a smaller lightweight device with reasonable battery life e.g. Sales reps, field force, students (not schools). Because it is a PC it fits well into the Enterprise from a management perspective.

I'm really interested in the Surface Go as a secondary device to be used when I go to conferences or travel in general. With a device like this I can stay in the Microsoft Ecosystem with OneDrive and have access to all my files. I also think of it as a replacement for my old Sony Xperia Z tablet.

This is also true for the ARM devices. I really like them, the HP and Lenovo ones that are out there now. Great battery life and always on. Also they have LTE out of the box which I want.

I consider their 12.5" form factor to be a bit big for tablet use (for my taste) and I also think that Snapdragon 850 would serve them better (maybe) in terms of performance.

I'm really looking forward to the reviews for the Surface Go I think it will suit me perfectly if it holds up performance wise.

 

[anon(50597)]

I'm really interested in the Surface Go as a secondary device to be used when I go to conferences or travel in general. With a device like this I can stay in the Microsoft Ecosystem with OneDrive and have access to all my files. I also think of it as a replacement for my old Sony Xperia Z tablet.

This is also true for the ARM devices. I really like them, the HP and Lenovo ones that are out there now. Great battery life and always on. Also they have LTE out of the box which I want.

I consider their 12.5" form factor to be a bit big for tablet use (for my taste) and I also think that Snapdragon 850 would serve them better (maybe) in terms of performance.

I'm really looking forward to the reviews for the Surface Go I think it will suit me perfectly if it holds up performance wise.

I can see this. Going to a conference. Don’t need a lot of power, etc.
Performance is yet to be seen. I’ll be interested in that also.

 

[Drael646464]

I wonder if the ipad can compete with itself btw. Ipad sales have been down year on year for a few years now. The budget model ipad was an attempt to increase lagging sales. I think the way people mostly use ipads lends to them not really wanting to upgrade. It works, so meh. They replace it, if it breaks.

That's where I think, in the long run, MSFT can offer something else - more software power, but it has to refine the UI, the core OS UI in particular, as well as lock down that system integrated pen use. If it can become easier to use, close that gap, there's a reason to want a windows tablet instead.

For the average ipad use, the go isn't it. Not unless they want a full browser, media player, office apps, desktop games, drawing and music composition software. But I can see this having more general appeal than the bigger surfaces - it's cheap, it runs the OS that professionals and academics use - full desktop OS, it has that pen perfection, but it's also portable. So people wanting a sketchpad, notepad, portable note-taking, or to run higher power software on the go (like perhaps a musician playing live gigs), it makes a bit more sense than the bigger devices - in the sense, that yes, as a professional, or power user, you might want a more laptop experience, but if you want those features as a bonus on something that's super easy to carry, as opposed to as a sacrifice for size, then it's there.


It's weird - at one stage all you could get were too small 8 inchers. But 9-10 inches is a great size for windows, and was never really pushed by OEMs. Especially with WoA rising up, and PWA, it's a pretty good time to give the market a push.

An ipad killer? No. But at the same time, hybrids are far more exciting in the tablet space to consumers, than an ipad, or especially an android tablet, even if the useability bridge is still one to cross.

 

[anon(50597)]

I wonder if the ipad can compete with itself btw.

For the average ipad use, the go isn't it. Not unless they want a full browser, media player, office apps, desktop games, drawing and music composition software. But I can see this having more general appeal than the bigger surfaces - it's cheap, it runs the OS that professionals and academics use - full desktop OS, it has that pen perfection, but it's also portable. So people wanting a sketchpad, notepad, portable note-taking, or to run higher power software on the go (like perhaps a musician playing live gigs), it makes a bit more sense than the bigger devices - in the sense, that yes, as a professional, or power user, you might want a more laptop experience, but if you want those features as a bonus on something that's super easy to carry, as opposed to as a sacrifice for size, then it's there.

An ipad killer? No. But at the same time, hybrids are far more exciting in the tablet space to consumers, than an ipad, or especially an android tablet, even if the useability bridge is still one to cross.

The iPad is kind of a niche product, and so will be the Go though quite different. iPads are great for the touch experience which lends itself to a lot of different uses. It’s perfect for me. I’m not trying to write a paper or do extensive Excel data entry. I’m surfing, exploring, creating, purchasing, controlling, etc.

As far as the Go, I’m not sure who will be drawn to it. Portable? Yes. Powerful? No. It still could have uses though but I’m not sure where or if it would beat an iPad in those instances. It would be interesting to hear from people who purchase one for real life uses.

Are hybrids far more exciting to consumers than an iPad? We’ll see in the next year or so.

 

[Drael646464]

The iPad is kind of a niche product, and so will be the Go though quite different. iPads are great for the touch experience which lends itself to a lot of different uses. It’s perfect for me. I’m not trying to write a paper or do extensive Excel data entry. I’m surfing, exploring, creating, purchasing, controlling, etc.

As far as the Go, I’m not sure who will be drawn to it. Portable? Yes. Powerful? No. It still could have uses though but I’m not sure where or if it would beat an iPad in those instances. It would be interesting to hear from people who purchase one for real life uses.

Are hybrids far more exciting to consumers than an iPad? We’ll see in the next year or so.

A use case might be using adobe illustrator to sketch on the go. Or writing a basic melody in fruity loops on the go. Or taking notes with a pen (being that windows has deeper pen intergration).

Admitedly the Pentium chip they have used isn't the most powerful - but it is more powerful than an atom, and even atoms were capable of quite a bit of things an ipad could never do - like playing less demanding full desktop games. And that particular Pentium chip has a lower thermal draw than the alternatives, which for the size, really makes sense, otherwise you have horrible battery life.


Are hybrids exciting to users? Well, they are the fastest growing segment of tablets, of laptops - and laptops are the fastest growing PC market. Whereas the ipad has been shrinking in market share for approximated five years, which is why apple released a budget version. They certainly are useful, and a polished tablet experience - ideal in many use cases, but I think it's fair to say that the shine/buzz has worn off.

Whereas for PCs, I don't think we can really even say things have properly started - no doubt things like PWA, windows on arm, more polish in the UI via an adaptable shell - ie future developments, will give windows on smaller tablets more polish and potential - right now windows still straddles a rift, much as chromeOS does - not quite reaching from it's original place, over to it's new broader platform agnostic intention. iOS as a mobile OS has never had to contend with something more ambitious as a development and market goal, as google and Microsoft have to, with their device spanning hybrid intentions.

And in that, I don't think we'll see in the next year where those plans for Microsoft and windows, or google and chromeOS go at all. I think we'll be talking about more like the span of five years or more, to see how it all unfolds versus the current, well established mobile OS market.

There's a certain fad like energy to technology adoption, and useage. At one point apple users were pioneers, and things like ios, utterly basic and poorly implemented. At one point, the Walkman was exciting, and hip, and everyone had to have one. I know, many will say "it only matters to me, what we have now", and sure, that's true...now. In five years or ten, it will matter to you then. No one can no, but it is relevant and important whether that Walkman we have is going to be the mainstay it is now, in five years time - like for example if we are investing heavily in cassette tapes. Again, no one can know, but much like the fast rotation of our planet, often things only seem stable because of our perception. In fact, they are continually changing beyond it's reach.

 

[anon(50597)]

A use case might be using adobe illustrator to sketch on the go. Or writing a basic melody in fruity loops on the go. Or taking notes with a pen (being that windows has deeper pen intergration).

Admitedly the Pentium chip they have used isn't the most powerful - but it is more powerful than an atom, and even atoms were capable of quite a bit of things an ipad could never do - like playing less demanding full desktop games. And that particular Pentium chip has a lower thermal draw than the alternatives, which for the size, really makes sense, otherwise you have horrible battery life.


Are hybrids exciting to users? Well, they are the fastest growing segment of tablets, of laptops - and laptops are the fastest growing PC market. Whereas the ipad has been shrinking in market share for approximated five years, which is why apple released a budget version. They certainly are useful, and a polished tablet experience - ideal in many use cases, but I think it's fair to say that the shine/buzz has worn off.

Whereas for PCs, I don't think we can really even say things have properly started - no doubt things like PWA, windows on arm, more polish in the UI via an adaptable shell - ie future developments, will give windows on smaller tablets more polish and potential - right now windows still straddles a rift, much as chromeOS does - not quite reaching from it's original place, over to it's new broader platform agnostic intention. iOS as a mobile OS has never had to contend with something more ambitious as a development and market goal, as google and Microsoft have to, with their device spanning hybrid intentions.


And in that, I don't think we'll see in the next year where those plans for Microsoft and windows, or google and chromeOS go at all. I think we'll be talking about more like the span of five years or more, to see how it all unfolds versus the current, well established mobile OS market.

Of course hybrids are a fast growing segment because they are just starting. I’m not saying they won’t become more widely used, we just don’t know yet.
At least you’re finally coming around to agree that this supposed new wave won’t be here for another 5-10 years. I remember you trying to convince me Andromeda would be out the end of 2017, then the beginning of 2018. All this takes time both to develop and for people to accept. People aren’t going to throw away their iPads for some new hybrid from MS anytime soon, at least in numbers that matter.

 

[Drael646464]

Of course hybrids are a fast growing segment because they are just starting. I’m not saying they won’t become more widely used, we just don’t know yet.
At least you’re finally coming around to agree that this supposed new wave won’t be here for another 5-10 years. I remember you trying to convince me Andromeda would be out the end of 2017, then the beginning of 2018. All this takes time both to develop and for people to accept. People aren’t going to throw away their iPads for some new hybrid from MS anytime soon, at least in numbers that matter.

Well, back then I was trying to convince people that andromeda even existed - back then windows central didn't accept this as fact, everyone thought it was a rumour (but i'd seen some compelling evidence in the form of windows code in released builds, found by a user on twitter that confirmed everything about the adaptive dual screen design and the use of windows core).

We now accept this as confirmed by insiders, but back then it was "what have you been smoking mate".

As it turns out early 2019 isn't so far away from 2017.


But yes, you are most certainly right that this sort of change takes time. We didn't move from dial up modems to the smartphone, and we won't move from discreet mobile and desktop OSes to crossplatform hybrids overnight either. Not just for market adoption reasons, but because the development of such technology is even more complex and incremental than that of phones.

I've always known, and said the project of taking all those steps towards a hybrid, crossplatform os, the "pathway" as they say, is a long one. It was only contemplating the complexity of that pathway, and the history of computing that I began to understand that it was unpredicted in complexity, in development, and as a move for the market.

It's still unclear that MSFT has enough of a lead over google, who appear to be of identical mind, that they are counted out. Even apple who refuse to play the hybrid game are best positioned for it with ios and osx, should they change their mind, although I can't help feel in their case, they might genuinely be losing a position in that particular race.

 

[anon(50597)]

Well, back then I was trying to convince people that andromeda even existed - back then windows central didn't accept this as fact, everyone thought it was a rumour (but i'd seen some compelling evidence in the form of windows code in released builds, found by a user on twitter that confirmed everything about the adaptive dual screen design and the use of windows core).

We now accept this as confirmed by insiders, but back then it was "what have you been smoking mate".

As it turns out early 2019 isn't so far away from 2017.


But yes, you are most certainly right that this sort of change takes time. We didn't move from dial up modems to the smartphone, and we won't move from discreet mobile and desktop OSes to crossplatform hybrids overnight either. Not just for market adoption reasons, but because the development of such technology is even more complex and incremental than that of phones.

I've always known, and said the project of taking all those steps towards a hybrid, crossplatform os, the "pathway" as they say, is a long one. It was only contemplating the complexity of that pathway, and the history of computing that I began to understand that it was unpredicted in complexity, in development, and as a move for the market.

It's still unclear that MSFT has enough of a lead over google, who appear to be of identical mind, that they are counted out. Even apple who refuse to play the hybrid game are best positioned for it with ios and osx, should they change their mind, although I can't help feel in their case, they might genuinely be losing a position in that particular race.

It’s fun to talk about but I don’t get too serious about it. Everything is fluid and looks one way today and a different way tomorrow. The only thing we do know it that technology will develop and change. Enjoy the ride!

 

[Daniel Stevenson Sutton]

We have exact opposite view here. I guess I spend. All my time between PBI, SQL server and Excel so my ipad is a little pointless to me if I know I may have to jump on a job while out and about, while my Surface Pro is rarely out of reach.

 

[Daniel Stevenson Sutton]

I agree, sales and events organisation is one field the ipad has really gotten a handle on.

But this touches on the marketing weakness for Microsoft. Apple did a lot to convince people that anyone can rely on an ipad alone, its just not the case. For a lot of people the ipad is a compromise work device, working around it not with it. In your role it works, in mine it would be totally pointless to try. It may not be sexy to target accountants, analysts and finance execs but they are the ones who will favor these machines in the end.