Developer of 2+ years and user of 3+ years; closer to switching than ever

[apoelin]

I'll keep this short since I know my post will probably annoy most people here and will end up getting buried. I apologize in advance for the rant; I guess I just want to vent.

Like everyone else around here, I was waiting anxiously for 8.1. Sure Cortana is cool, action center is useful, but above all, what I wanted was the simple stuff: real instant resuming of apps, and some kind of persistence of connections for apps not in the foreground. So I install 8.1 as soon as it came out, and to my surprise, despite Microsoft claiming that there is no more "resuming..." for 1GB devices, I get more of it than before. Not only that, but now there is a newly introduced "loading..." screen occasionally for system apps.

I've been trying to ignore it and thinking that I am maybe over-reacting, and then I made the mistake of reading Joe's AMA today. Either because of not knowing (doubtful?), or as a PR response, Joe kept repeating over and over again about Fast App Resume being the solution to this issue (it was brought up quite a bit), and that it's up to devs to fix it in their apps. He didn't acknowledge this as a problem, which means this issue is nowhere on the radar of the team there. The problem is, that FAR is not a solution to this issue, since all the apps you launch and don't start from their splash screen, already implement FAR. I keep a small hope that re-compiling apps for WP8.1 will address this, but that's an unacceptable solution to me as a user. Sure, for my apps as a developer, I will do this. But if history is any indication, you can be sure that the majority of developers won't bother. Thus end users will end up with the same subpar experience and "waiting" game, that has been going on since I got my Samsung Focus.

And then you have apps like Skype, where leaving the app momentarily and returning to it, causes it to drop any active connection and force it to re-authenticate. This truly hurts its use as a messaging app. It is very unlikely that this is an app issue, but it's still yet another case of the multitasking capabilities on WP not being flexible enough. Skype is just an example; a ton of apps suffer because of not having this capability.

Anyway, this is getting long so I'll just stop here. Fingers crossed that I will be proven wrong, and by the time 8.1 hits devices, all the above issues will disappear. As it stands now, switching to another platform as a user seems closer than ever. And believe me when I say that I don't want to!

 

[xankazo]

Valid points. I'm not quite as resolute as to say I'm switching, but I'm feeling something's not right. I love this platform and want it to improve as much as possible.

 

[Ady Tamimi1]

I was ready to bash you and bury you alive for this post, but you actually made a good point here, and you clearly know what you are talking about unlike maybe 90% of random people ranting around. Let's be honest here, multitasking in WP 8.1 has improved over WP 8 in the sense that it allows more background apps running, but the WAY it multitasks hasn't improved as far as I can see. This "resuming" thing is so strange and annoying that it sometimes takes less time to reopen the app from start, and go to the state you had it before switching to another app.

But on the positive side, I've never seen ANY mobile OS to be so fast, smooth and stable when switching between apps, and I've tried many OS's (Symbian, Android, WP, BB10, iOS, and these are all high-end OS's), take for example this scenario, start playing the most resource-intensive game you can think of (Asphalt 8, MC4 and NOVA are the first to come in mind) and in the middle of playing, just press the home button or the camera button, it switches instantly to the homescreen and the camera app respectively without ANY delay, exactly as fast as it would do it without running intensive apps or games.

Also don't forget that the WP8.1 preview is NOT bug-free and polished as the official WP 8.1 is going to be as OFFICIALLY pointed out by Joe today. I'm not being too optimistic but I'm pretty faithful that they ARE working on this issue as WP has matured quite well with each update (Yes, slow, but you can't say it didn't mature a lot).

 

[k0de]

What apps have you develop for WP? Your points are valid. But I will judge your rant according to your work. Sometimes is not always MSFT fault. Perhaps you lack skills developing for the WP ecosystem.

Excuse my French but some developers have build many solid apps on this platform.

Please provide a link.

 

[apoelin]

What apps have you develop for WP? Your points are valid. But I will judge your rant according to your work. Sometimes is not always MSFT fault. Perhaps you lack skills developing for the WP ecosystem.

Excuse my French but some developers have build many solid apps on this platform.

Please provide a link.

I don't think this is really relevant. My apps are also neither "catchy", or anything that most of the crowd here would cheer for. However, I will provide a link. I have peaked at the #1 spot in the paid apps section of one of my categories, and I've consistently been somewhere up there in my categories.

Apps from apoelin | Windows Phone Apps+Games Store (United States)

I actually looked for a way to delete my post after putting it up, but I didn't see one. The situation is what it is, and there is not any point in me ranting about it. Some users and/or devs will come to the platform, others will leave; that's life!

 

[apoelin]

This "resuming" thing is so strange and annoying that it sometimes takes less time to reopen the app from start, and go to the state you had it before switching to another app.

This puzzles me too. It's like you said, some times it's faster to just reopen from the start. Which points straight to this being an OS and not a dev bug; that's why I didn't appreciate Mr Belfiore's response today in regards to FAR, because it moves responsibility away from Microsoft, without the devs actually being at fault (as far as I can tell anyway).

I agree with you that usually WP8 is smooth. However, it seems to me that WP8 was smoother than WP8.1 (refer to my "loading..." comment from earlier). Also, iOS manages to provide this smoothness to resuming while following the same technique as WP (by actually suspending apps, whereas Android handles multitasking it in a whole different way), and it can pull it off so much better.

Also don't forget that the WP8.1 preview is NOT bug-free and polished as the official WP 8.1 is going to be as OFFICIALLY pointed out by Joe today. I'm not being too optimistic but I'm pretty faithful that they ARE working on this issue as WP has matured quite well with each update (Yes, slow, but you can't say it didn't mature a lot).

Like I said, I would love to be proven wrong. I really would! If I had to put my money on something though, that would be on the fact that not much will change between now and the actual release. And I don't want to enter another waiting game until GDR1 and so on.

 

[DennisvdG]

I feel your pain but personally it doesn't bother to the point where I want to change ship, I enjoy wp for what it is and I love seeing it mature over time

 

[quantum tao]

I hear you. I've been a big fan of windows mobile and windows phone since the beginning. I've watched Microsoft trip over themselves with mobile phones and tablets, they were first and let themselves get plowed over.
but I think we are at a pivotal point in time right now (or maybe it just always feels like that), 8.1 will kill us or make us stronger.
I hope this is the beginning of a new era of windows phone, it would be too much work to jump ship.

 

[Nogitsune Micah]

I myself thought of jumping to iPhone but as it stands now I really can't see myself jumping into iPhone or Android(Gross lmao) or any other ecosystem. There are a lot of things WP does still sort of struggle with, even in WP 8.1 with its many improvements.

However the unique aspects of our OS, I always feel empty without them when playing with other OS. I really do believe 8.1 is the start of something great.

 

[Jan Tomsic]

Honestly yes, there's plenty of loading screens on WP, but when you press Start, it's always instant, holding the back button to view recent apps is instant as well, no matter how hot your phone is from playing Bad Piggies. Even if you have 10 recent apps, scrolling them will be fluid. From what I've experienced on android was lag, lag and more lag. Home screen was closed every time I did anything else, returning to the home screen would take up to 10 seconds or longer, fist just empty screen appeared, then icons and slowly widgets. Almost every time. Recent apps would take forever to load, and while it did switch the app right away, the app was unresponsive for few seconds.
When I received a text on android while playing a game (or browsing the web for that matter) and opened it, it would sometimes take a long time to actually open the text. Sure, the app opened (though not as fast as on WP, even with loading screens), but the text would still have to load. And then the keyboard would randomly open and close and then open again only to close yet again when I actually wanted to type. And not to even mention the 1 minute freezes of complete unresponsiveness when even making a phone call (from idle phone) would take me 1 minute. I'm not exaggerating. All that on a phone similarly priced (at the time) as my fluid fast 925. WP also has its problems of course, slow skype being one of them, but I rather look at 'resuming...' screen for 2 seconds than looking and loaded but unresponsive app. At least the camera always loads in the same time no matter what I'm doing. Maybe Nexus and Moto line perform better, or android phones that cost 500€+, they probably do actually, and Nexus 5 was close to the top of my new phone list, but the carrier only got it after I already got my 925, and I enjoy it quite a lot.

If you want to get a different phone go ahead, but there is no perfect os/phone out there

 

[k0de]

I don't think this is really relevant. My apps are also neither "catchy", or anything that most of the crowd here would cheer for. However, I will provide a link. I have peaked at the #1 spot in the paid apps section of one of my categories, and I've consistently been somewhere up there in my categories.

Apps from apoelin | Windows Phone Apps+Games Store (United States)

I actually looked for a way to delete my post after putting it up, but I didn't see one. The situation is what it is, and there is not any point in me ranting about it. Some users and/or devs will come to the platform, others will leave; that's life!

You do nice work. 2 1/2 years is not enough time to judge this platform. The best is yet to come for WP. You should stay.

 

[bilzkh]

Microsofties clearly value their personal logic over market realities. Sinofsky clearly wasn't the only one living in his own little world some light years away from Earth. Heck, some Microsoft execs actually think a Lumia is labelled as "Nokia Lumia XXX running on Microsoft Windows Phone 8 dot one"), *NO ONE SAYS THAT, Microsoft!!*

Seriously, I have to ask, are they actually void of real business development people? How the heck do you *intentionally* miss enterprise on Windows Phone 7 when you had all the groundwork on Windows Mobile? How the heck do you make a platform that at one point was incapable of supporting modern mobile games when you have Xbox? How on heck do you agree to propose always online when the internet roared NO at the leaks? How do you not introduce compelling budget-friendly Windows Phone when the Lumia 520 was your best flyer?

Microsoft unable (or is unwilling) to read the market.

Anyways, the market has clearly moved towards the paradigm where the smartphone is basically a PC in your pocket (i.e. Android). Users have grown accustomed to (whether they like it or not) to see apps run fully in the background, to access many parts of the OS, to customize, to hook up peripherals such as full keyboards and mice, etc.

Is this the best solution to mobile? Perhaps not, but it's clearly where the market is headed, and with Android's 70-90%+ marketshare the expectation is that vendors (of apps, peripherals, etc) will build their ideas and solutions around Android's paradigm. If Microsoft is serious about getting Windows Phone some traction, it needs to alter Windows Phones to meet the general expectations and beliefs of developers, vendors and OEMs. This should have been achieved with Windows Phone 8, but no, Microsoft decided to stick with its personal worldview and utterly screw up, again, for the umpteenth time.

Just like how Microsoft managed to step away from its paradigm and transition Windows Mobile to the touch-friendly, full-screen Windows Phone, it needs to grow up (seriously...) and transition Windows Phone to basically Windows in a Phone. Think of it as, instead of forcing the user to grow up to the phone (i.e. Android), you let the phone grow with the user, like a friend or partner (i.e. Windows Phone). You make Windows Phone the companion, for everything in your life, and you depend on it take on bigger and more complex tasks if and when the time comes.

Take the Android model and offer a different sub-paradigm. Perhaps instead of exposing everything about the OS and burdening the user with a lot of work in organizing their phone, start out with a pre-set system and leave the extra power to those who have the minds to find and use it (e.g. enthusiasts). Perhaps revamp the Windows Phone Store model and have real professionals ensuring that spam and crap doesn't get through. Perhaps listen to what the market is telling you and not rush to create your own File Manager app after 3+ third party developers beat you to it.

Goodness sake Microsoft, GROW UP.

....and for the sake for all that is rational, introduce a mid-end Lumia with the specs of Moto G but with LTE and a PureView camera for $300-350 already. Come on.

 

[diktea]

i was won over by the beautiful UI of wp8 and immediately jumped to buy L620.. it was so wonderful those days, gdr2 update stabilizes the os very well was quite satisfied.
then comes the gdr3 and wp8.1.... now my phone lags so much, frequent random hang ups, loading screen even returning to home page, frequently i cannot pick up calls coz the screen will not be responding to my touch...my message have a bug after wp 8.1 (i type a message and hit sent.. it will not send but grayed out the send button and hangs for even 1 minute.. happens almost every 1 out of 5 messages... )

A friend gave me Samsung galaxy grand 2.. have used three months now... no hang ups, restarts and the likes i mentioned above... it has become my daily driver now ...sorry to say this but for me it is not android that lags it is my wp that lags... ( I was a fan of WP & lumia, not anymore... that doesnt mean i am a fan of Android either... but the thing which i still do first in the morning is to check WP Central for good news of WP and i hardly check Android central)

 

[DennisvdG]

Perhaps listen to what the market is telling you and not rush to create your own File Manager app after 3+ third party developers beat you to it. Goodness sake Microsoft, GROW UP.

Wait so do you want a file manager or not? I don't understand why your mad because MS wants to give you a file manager...

 

[bilzkh]

Wait so do you want a file manager or not?

Lol! As a three year old might say after demanding something and finally being told that he or she can get it, "no...I don't want it anymore...screw you!" Seriously, Microsoft announcing a file manager today was akin to the writer of a failed paper returning to write his or her name on it because they forgot.

At this point I need to see whether Microsoft's serious about reading and following the market, not imposing its two-bit vision (unless that vision is truly revolutionary). Altering existing paradigms for the sake of it is not revolutionary. Them introducing a wearables SDK that includes Cortana and is compatible with not only Windows devices, but also iOS and Android would be revolutionary. It might have put Android Wear to the wall and given Microsoft services an edge over Google... NOPE.

When looking at Moto G they could've thought, "hey, let's capitalize on Lumia 520 and introduce a 730 that has the same specs as Moto G, but introduces an amazing camera and LTE for a reasonable price of $299 to $349.99 off-contract! We could take the fight to iPhone 5C and Moto G in cost and quality, respectively!" NOPE.

When looking at how actual Windows tablet devices work they might have come to the conclusion, "we need active digitzers or comparable solutions to be available on as many devices as possible, *especially* Surface, including Windows RT." NOPE.

Another example... They failed to come out with a cheap multimedia box making use of the mainstream Xbox services, e.g. Music, Video, etc. Not everyone wants a full powered gaming console, so perhaps an Xbox Lite might have been a good way to satisfy the Roku, Fire TV, Apple TV, etc. market. Perhaps they could've built a Miracast receiver into that device (pre-empt Chromecast). Perhaps build in a DVR and market it to the cable carriers as a substitute to their cable boxes? Nope.

If they thought about it, they might have been able to leverage such a device to help generate mass consumer interest, and in the process, mass developer interest in producing universal apps for it. Of course, this is conditional on them actually making that process straightforward...which currently doesn't seem like the case. What did they do instead... Nope.

These guys just suck at execution. Seriously, who's running the business development gig, Ralph Wiggum?

 

[DennisvdG]

Lol! As a three year old might say after demanding something and finally being told that he or she can get it, "no...I don't want it anymore...screw you!" Seriously, Microsoft announcing a file manager today was akin to the writer of a failed paper returning to write his or her name on it because they forgot.

By that standard we will NEVER get ANYTHING ever again since we are late on everything. That first part of your comment is just stupid because better late than never! the rest of your comment are some good points though!

 

[bilzkh]

By that standard we will NEVER get ANYTHING ever again since we are late on everything. That first part of your comment is just stupid because better late than never! the rest of your comment are some good points though!

You'd have a point if it were just once or twice, but this is basically the only thing Microsoft's consistent at...catching up. I'll give them credit for being pretty good at catching up (e.g. Cortana vs. Siri and Google Now or even Bing vs. Google, to an extent), but seriously, they should know better than to find themselves catching up across so many different areas so late in the game.

 

[Robinsonmac]

By that standard we will NEVER get ANYTHING ever again since we are late on everything. That first part of your comment is just stupid because better late than never! the rest of your comment are some good points though!

Better late than does matter when your so late no one cares, in Windows Phone's case 96% of the market does not care...... They need to make a spalsh & a very, very big splash & carpet bomb or blanket the TV, Print & internet with ads consistantly for a year. I mean so every time I turn the TV on I see a Windows Phone product ad no matter which chanel I turn to. No matter which print medium I look through I see a ad, no matter which web site I go to with ads I see Windows Phone. This has to be constant, to get Windows Phone into the minds, thoughts & discussion of everyone through holiday season this year.

Right now we have a cluster **** of ads from carriers, MS & Nokia that are terrible, erratic & un cohesive. Plus they are NOT consistantly run. They go heavy for 2 weeks then die out. The NBAplyoffs area perfect example, I should see as many Windows Phone ads as Samsung. ( I know they are an offical NBA sponsor, but they're is still ad space avaible) HEll it should be 2:1 Windos Phone ads, minimun1:1.....

This is the only way Windows Phone will really gain traction. You have to brainwash it into peoples minds with constant ads That how Apple & Samsung do it & it works.

 

[manwe]

i just returned to WP with 8.1 and i must say the improvements are very noticeable and significant.

however, the fact that skype, now a microsoft company for several years, is still essentially crippled is baffling to me.
this is the first thing that should've been ironed out in wp8, or 8.1 at the latest! a perfectly integrated cross platform voice and text messaging app could have been a very serious selling point for the entire platform. instead we have a fairly restricted app that characterises the stumbling efforts of msft with the entire wp project, i mean this is like imessage working better on blackberry's than on iphones. i can live with restricted multitasking for most other apps, but the messaging apps delivering late notifications or not being able to run in the background is an issue

 

[manwe]

Samsung galaxy grand 2.. have used three months now...

but that means you must have switched to it a month before 8.1 even came out right?