Did Microsoft give windows 10 mobile less time to succeed as compared to windows phone 8,8.1

[fatclue_98]

Re: Did Microsoft gave windows 10 mobile less time to succeed as compared to windows phone 8,8.1

Give up too soon? I’m amazed they hung on as long as they did.

Everyone here keeps saying that Windows phone was the best OS. News flash: no one cares about the GD OS. No one buys a phone to stare at the home screen!

It’s ALWAYS about the available apps. Desktop Windows has apps. Mac OS X has apps. Desktop Linux does not. Which is the failure?

iOS has apps. Android has apps. Windows phone did not. Which is the failure?

Do you see a pattern here?

Comparing desktop to mobile on an app basis is a losing proposition. True, Windows and OS X have apps, but their users pay for them. Sometimes dearly.

Would you pay $149 for Word, Excel and PowerPoint on an iPhone or Android? Would you pony up $8k for AutoCAD on an iPad? Probably not, huh? Mobile users are by and large cheapskates that won't pay $2 for an ad-free version of a popular app then complain about how many pop-up ads they get.

Despite what many, mostly younger, people say or think, there is no substitute for a desktop OS when it comes to getting things done. You can't connect an iPhone to an iPad to set up via iTunes can you? WDRT on a Windows phone is impossible without an x86 machine. As good as Chromebooks have gotten (I own one) they're not a desktop replacement.

I agree that lack of apps killed webOS, BlackBerry and now Windows. There's nothing to debate that. But if mobile could someday really challenge desktop, it won't be any of the current players. Their users won't be forking over hundreds of dollars for apps to accomplish those kinds of tasks.

Sent from my Idol 4S on mTalk

 

[minzegwu]

Re: Did Microsoft gave windows 10 mobile less time to succeed as compared to windows phone 8,8.1

Yes, absolutely. And it is rather unfortunate in that they could have taken the long view, in consideration of Windows Core OS and CShell. They simply needed to eliminate the multi-version nature of Windows. Doesn't make sense to have one for phone, laptop, desktop, tablet, Xbox, Hololens, iot, etc, when they could have one single modular/granular OS. The part I don't altogether understand is that they have been working on Windows Core OS for a while now and they should have planned better for the future. Windows Mobile, as an OS, is dumb, but Windows 10 in tablet (mobile) mode is NOT. They could simply do as they have done with Office, use screen size as a delineator. Here is a rough idea;
<=7" -Windows 10 with mobile shell
7-10" Windows 10 with tablet shell
10+ Windows 10 with laptop/desktop shell
Simple, isn't it? And this does, by the way, preserve UWP in that devs can still make responsive apps, based on screen size and input method. Its a win win win (for Microsoft, devs and end users).
I do think it is a shame. I Know a Windows Core OS device is coming but many people, devs and users, have already abandoned, not just Windows 10 Mobile, but Microsoft as a whole.
I hope they can somehow regain the public trust and resurrect themselves. I have been using an iPhone, as a bit of an experiment, for the last few months, and I do really miss Windows 10 Mobile, and will actually get another Windows Phone, as iOS/Android do not do it for me.
There are still diehard BlackBerry and Palm OS fans and I think that number for Microsoft could have been a huge number if they kept their messaging right, but I think the sad reality is that Microsoft has driven to man loyalist away...
I really hope the next Surface Mobile/Mini/Phone (or perhaps simply Surface) is an awesome, potentially currier like device, that will drive a lot of people back to the Microsoft camp. Who knows, at this point, with Groove Music going away, and other consumer-facing products. I do lump them kinda in the same category as Windows 10 Mobile, even though I do know there are glaring differences, but Microsoft could've handled the situation better. For instance, Groove could still exist as a music player and store, much like their Movies & TV app. They could've simply gotten rid of the Streaming portion, which I presume most of the upkeep costs came from.
Keys to success:
(Buy Spotify) keep selling music in the store, like Movies & TV
Windows/One Core OS - get it right
CShell ---get it right
DO NOT SHIP WINDOWS WITH INCOMPLETE/BROKEN/MISSING FEATURES (MY People, ETC. There is a super long list)
Only ship 1 major update a year
STOP rushing features, take time to get right before shipping
Single subscription including O365, Xbox Live, No more Groove, I don't know...
BRING BACK UNLIMITED ONEDRIVE
There's more but that's all for now.

 

[PhilBE]

Re: Did Microsoft gave windows 10 mobile less time to succeed as compared to windows phone 8,8.1

HW is overrated these days, it is all about UI and if people like it or not. W10M as such is not important if they can bring back the same experience on an open source platform or shrink W10 core in a mobile device. the former has more chance gaining the hearts of users because the apps are already there. Microsoft will do what it does best, creating software and new experiences. So, I’m sad to say he did the right thing in rebooting with one core design. W10M was too far from the goal to achieve this in an orderly fashion. I'm waiting what's next for W10 and all the different devices you will find on its way. For now I’ll keep it, just bought myself a new L830 for 50€. You can't beat that value for money and it doesn’t look to shabby against other more expensive phones. Before you blow a gasket, I’m not so into fake book and other recourse hungry apps. It does work well for photos , music, WhatsApp, S4B, secure app, GPS, plain phone calls,.......you get the idea. Greetings from overseas where Wmobile was once 10% marketshare

 

[StefEBear]

Re: Did Microsoft gave windows 10 mobile less time to succeed as compared to windows phone 8,8.1

I think its obvious MS didn't want to deal with phones and that is why no new ones. Then they can blame the lack of interest (even though there can't be any interest when there is nothing released to get interest in).

NO. The App Developers gave up on it.. Without them, what is the point of an unsupported platform.

 

[Jonny Kowalczyk]

Re: Did Microsoft gave windows 10 mobile less time to succeed as compared to windows phone 8,8.1

It isn't dead is it? what's to stop them bringing out a surface branded device running windows 10 mobile with mobile capabilities? id love to see something like xda developers with the ability to create custom ROMS for the devices if this is so. anyways my phone broke and I've temporarily replaced it with a windows 10 phone just because I miss it a little. and I was massively into windows phone, Microsoft even sent me a free 950 with display dock when I was beta testing 10 bless them. I wouldn't be surprised if this is not the complete end, I really do think there will be another windows 10 device that I will be making phone calls off of in the near future.

 

[Jaroslav Houdek]

Re: Did Microsoft gave windows 10 mobile less time to succeed as compared to windows phone 8,8.1

Nadella wanted the mobile business to fail just to prove that he was right when he was against buying Nokia. And then he bought LinkedIn, with even worse return on investments. Nadella is a fool.

 

[Richard Toft]

Re: Did Microsoft gave windows 10 mobile less time to succeed as compared to windows phone 8,8.1

Yes they gave up far too soon, as soon as the retrenchment was announced the die was cast, wm was doing pretty well in Europe at that time and starting to gain ground and then retrenchment hit, well probably before that tbh. what killed windows mobile a lack of drive and marketing. The ambition from the developers and the pre production models reviewed on Windows Central shows that the production and development teams were fully committed to making windows mobile a success. As for the future well I'm like a lot of people who have posted here I'm sticking with it until there a mobile lte pc that I can make calls on.

 

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Re: Did Microsoft gave windows 10 mobile less time to succeed as compared to windows phone 8,8.1

Windows phones at launch starting with Mango were headed in the right direction. Numbers were showing upward of double digits in some countries too. Then the first cancer approached it...marketing just disappeared and fell off. No more advertising nothing. Then still slowly making progress then the other cancer happened in the form of Nadella.

These two cancers destroyed essentially the Windows Mobile from the inside out.

 

[Wheels_____]

Re: Did Microsoft gave windows 10 mobile less time to succeed as compared to windows phone 8,8.1

Yes of course they did. Without an app strategy in place the phones where doomed from the start. The Windows 10 universal apps idea should have been a part of the equation from the beginning. Apple and Android OS's market domination effectively blocks any innovations from another mobile OS in the market. For it to work for Microsoft you should make the mobile and PC experience the same much like the Edge Browser does.
That said, I will use my HP Elite until it dies in my hand. It has been a great phone for me.

 

[ED the new guy]

Re: Did Microsoft gave windows 10 mobile less time to succeed as compared to windows phone 8,8.1

" Satya Nadella! I don't think he's good for Microsoft."

Microsoft three years ago when Nadella took over $47. Microsoft today. $83.

That's a 76% increase in three years. 25% per year.

No, he's no good!

 

[john alfred gare]

Re: Did Microsoft gave windows 10 mobile less time to succeed as compared to windows phone 8,8.1

Yeah, I wish they were patient and persistent enough. What makes Microsoft so unique is because of their Mobile Line Up. I really hope that they could rethink about it. I don't believe app devs were the issue because if that is true then why is it that there are so many apps in Windows Store? So please, rethink about your decision of abandoning the Mobile Platform

 

[ED the new guy]

Re: Did Microsoft gave windows 10 mobile less time to succeed as compared to windows phone 8,8.1

They hung on waaaaay too long. Microsoft had insane staying power. Yeah, sure, in some markets they managed to make some inroads, but, they failed to make huge inroads into the most important one of all, the United States.

Globally the US population may be a 5% drop in the bucket, but, it is by far the most valuable single market on the planet and will remain so for a long, long, long time to come.

Apps are often pointed to as the reason Windows Mobile failed. I'm no longer convinced.

Apps are in no small measure what killed BlackBerry's PlayBook very, very quickly. Hubris (pricing their hardware at Apple prices) also had a role to play in BB's face plant with the PlayBook. There was no way to do video chat from a PlayBook with anything other than another BlackBerry device. Same story for audio chats.

I am now convinced that Windows Mobile was killed by a combination of the quality of Apple's iPhones and by the fact that Andoid was not Microsoft.

The genius of the early iPhones made iOS a run-away success.

iOS was so much cleaner and easier to use than Windows Mobile in 2007 that it was a slam dunk for Apple to take the lead over Microsoft in the nascent touch screen category and to wrest control away from the keyboard centric BlackBerry. That meant Windows Mobile already had the stigma of having lost the lead.

Microsoft's Ballmer's 2007 claim proved to be little more than hot air: "we're selling millions and millions and millions of phones a year. Apple is selling zero phones a year. In six months, they'll have the most expensive phone by far ever in the marketplace". Coming back from having lost the indisputable lead is something hard to do.

Second, Andoid was something that Microsoft's Windows never was in two important ways: Android was royalty free; and, Android was customizable.

Microsoft was notorious for maintaining absolute control over its OS. An OEM couldn't even customize the login screen or the boot screen. Adding your own software on the desktop was difficult and expensive at the best of times.

This meant that the only place HP could differentiate itself from Dell was in hardware. And, you of course had to pay Microsoft a healthy chunk of money for each and every device you sold. Windows Mobile/Phone wasn't dramatically different.

Android was different. You could customize every aspect of the phone to your heart's content. If you wanted to be able to call it Android you had to conform to certain Google standards, but, aside from that, the phone you as an OEM sold was yours to do with as you saw fit.

Android was good enough. It didn't matter if it was worse than iOS. It didn't matter if it was worse than Windows Mobile/Phone. It limped along compared to iOS but it allowed people to afford a device that was similar to the highly coveted iPhone and could do sometimes nearly the same tasks as the iPhone with enough ease of use to allow most people some sucess in using the device (but at a lower price).

in this context it makes sense that Windows Phone/Mobile failed.

Since Microsoft conceded a major lead in 2007 to Apple, Microsoft needed to offer a profoundly better experience than iOS to win new or win back old customers. But, since iOS was--from the very beginning--a well designed OS that would prove problematic.

Android made OEMs happy because Android was not run by Microsoft, a company notorious for its tight control and for its anti-competitive behavior.

So, since iOS had been the OS to beat Windows Phone/Mobile starting in 2007 and Android was the OS that gave OEMs control over the experience they could offer customers Windows Phone/Mobile was done in.

I'm actually sad for that. It would've been nice to have a third OS around to keep Android and iOS honest, but, so is the way of the world!

 

[kirbyator]

Re: Did Microsoft gave windows 10 mobile less time to succeed as compared to windows phone 8,8.1

I agree they gave up to soon. While windows 10 was in my mind a step away from the beauty of metro on windows 8, overall it was a more inclusive operating system. I stepped away from Windows mobile a couple of years ago when I saw the writing on the wall, but I've missed it every since and even now am considering getting an HP elite X3 and riding it into the ground. While everyone says the app gap was the nail in the coffin, there are seriously only 2 apps I use today that windows mobile doesn't have a solution for.

I find it interesting that a company that says its a software company not a hardware company couldn't find a software solution to overcome the app gap! I think they were well on the the way to bridging it with the UWP apps and C-shell, and then it seems like they just quit 10 yards from the finish line.

That said, I don't think even Microsoft as given up on windows mobile. My Nokia 1520 has seen a lot of screen time in the past 2 months since the battery on my iPhone is at its end. Every Microsoft app is still being updated regularly on my unsupported phone; I even noticed some acrylic updates in the store today.

 

[Darkgift]

Re: Did Microsoft gave windows 10 mobile less time to succeed as compared to windows phone 8,8.1

They absolutely gave up way too soon. Tho they didn't give much of an effort either.

 

[Guytronic]

Re: Did Microsoft gave windows 10 mobile less time to succeed as compared to windows phone 8,8.1

They absolutely gave up way too soon. Tho they didn't give much of an effort either.

You reap what you sow.

 

[Arko109]

Re: Did Microsoft gave windows 10 mobile less time to succeed as compared to windows phone 8,8.1

If I look at Microsoft in general, as Nadella said, it had become a could first, service first company

wait wait wait... I remember clearly that Nadella said "cloud first, MOBILE first", no "service" there... so, if one wants to know whether Nadella's words are trustworthy, one can look at the state of Windows 10 Mobile now.

 

[Shoba Annavarjula]

Re: Did Microsoft gave windows 10 mobile less time to succeed as compared to windows phone 8,8.1

Well said!
Microsoft's success came from being a software company that licensed it's O/S to hardware companies. This was back from the Pre-Y2K era. Why did they not use that same strategy for mobile as well. Focus on making an awesome O/S and AppStore that could be installed on handsets made by any number of manufacturers. If you build it (the app store, that is), they (the handsets) will come :wink:

 

[fatclue_98]

Re: Did Microsoft gave windows 10 mobile less time to succeed as compared to windows phone 8,8.1

They absolutely gave up way too soon. Tho they didn't give much of an effort either.

How much effort would you consider sufficient? Besides Samsung and Apple, how many other OEMs do you see advertising? There were Lumia ads for a time but people didn't want a phone with Windows. It's like that hot broad you're chasing and she finally tells you that she just ain't that into you.

 

[Darkgift]

Re: Did Microsoft gave windows 10 mobile less time to succeed as compared to windows phone 8,8.1

How much effort would you consider sufficient? Besides Samsung and Apple, how many other OEMs do you see advertising? There were Lumia ads for a time but people didn't want a phone with Windows. It's like that hot broad you're chasing and she finally tells you that she just ain't that into you.

Not sure what chic being into me have anything to do with my comment, but ok. Any effort would have been sufficient. The 950/950xl announcement had no enthusiasm at all. Lackluster at best. Plenty of ads for Windows, non for mobile. None for the phones. Other oems have Android on board. Don't need much pushing. But if you're trying to gain minds share and market share, yeah... Throw an ad out there. So yeah... Not much effort. Might wanna think about what your saying before you get text happy next time... Lol

 

[fatclue_98]

Re: Did Microsoft gave windows 10 mobile less time to succeed as compared to windows phone 8,8.1

Not sure what chic being into me have anything to do with my comment, but ok. Any effort would have been sufficient. The 950/950xl announcement had no enthusiasm at all. Lackluster at best. Plenty of ads for Windows, non for mobile. None for the phones. Other oems have Android on board. Don't need much pushing. But if you're trying to gain minds share and market share, yeah... Throw an ad out there. So yeah... Not much effort. Might wanna think about what your saying before you get text happy next time... Lol

So because other OEMs have Android they can just ride their coattails and not lift a finger to advertise but Windows phones can't ride on Microsoft's coattails. Makes perfect sense.

Believe me, it's frustrating as hell to have to adopt another OS because Windows has failed. I'm not defending Microsoft because they advertised little. But they did. By the time the 950s were out it was fairly hopeless and they had invested too much in the product. Microsoft offered to pay devs for apps but they didn't bite. It wasn't common knowledge but the effort was there. Simply put, there wasn't enough interest and that was my chick reference. Sometimes to convey a point an analogy needs to be used. If the point still doesn't make it across, then I hoist the white flag.