Dual Booting may just be the ticket MS needs.

[tgp]

Windows Phone poses a larger threat in mobile than iOS. Google quite frankly doesn't have to care about iOS – by its nature it will not eclipse an Android-esque platform in sales, and Apple fails to compete with Google on services. Google can pretty much own the search, docs, mail, cloud storage, calendar and possibly even browser categories on iOS. At that point, who cares what platform it is? But Windows Phone comes with Microsoft services pushed left, right and centre. It's not hard to see why the two companies are constantly at odds.

I can see why you think that way, but I don't agree. Is there any real proof that the reason Google doesn't make WP apps is any reason other than market share? I've only ever seen that reason given on WPCentral. If you can provide sources from somewhere other than Google hating Microsoft fanboys on this forum I'd like to see them. I did find one here that kind of supports your idea.

But either way, whether or not Google's reasoning is market share, I still believe we'd get WP apps if WP's market share rose to 10% or more. And I don't want to make any big statements on why Google doesn't support WP, since I certainly don't know the answer. It's just that I see some holes in reasoning that it's not market share.

I've still never gotten an answer as to why there are no official Facebook or Instagram or WPCentral apps. Do you know?

 

[GCrane1982]

Instead of a dual boot system I think they would be best to have a OS choice on first use. For example you buy a brand new HTC One and when you boot it up for the very first time you would have a choice to install either the Android or WP OS. After this you would be locked into that particular OS until you factory reset the phone at which point you could change the OS.

If MSFT wanted to increase market share all they should remove the license fee to motivate OEM's to use it on their hardware. The other option would be to have an Android emulator so that users could install/run Android apps which would negate the complaints about the limited app marketplace

 

[AngryNil]

I can see why you think that way, but I don't agree. Is there any real proof that the reason Google doesn't make WP apps is any reason other than market share?… I still believe we'd get WP apps if WP's market share rose to 10% or more.

I'm not too sure what you hope to receive as proof, nor have you qualified your stance. The two companies compete in more fields that you can imagine. If one falls, the other directly stands to gain, across the board. Do you really think that Google's evaluation of a Microsoft platform is as simple as looking up Gartner's numbers for the past quarter? Both companies are – or should – be taking very considered approaches when dealing with each other. That's just common sense to me.

I don't think the tipping point is necessarily at 10%, but there certainly is one. Google's reasoning isn't as simple as "spite Microsoft at all costs". If Windows Phone owned 95% of the market, Google would definitely support it. At that stage, Windows Phone is dominant and Google needs to create a strategy off thriving on that platform. Currently, Google can choose to have a strategy where it suppresses the competition in order to stay dominant. It's about risk/reward.

But if you want definitive proof, you'll just have to wait for a secret Larry Page memo about how he wants to go thermonuclear on Microsoft.

I've still never gotten an answer as to why there are no official Facebook or Instagram or WPCentral apps. Do you know?

The Facebook app is official, something doesn't need to be developed and published in-house to be official. I would say it's quite possible that Microsoft actively works with Facebook on it, unless they actually have a full-featured public API which would allow you to create what Microsoft has done. I'm not sure if they do, but I don't think I've ever seen a full-featured third party client, so I'd venture to guess that Microsoft gets special access. There's no definitive answer for Instagram, and you'd already know it if there was one. So far, all we've got are essentially rumours, and the fact that it took so long to launch on Android. Seems to me that the company culture is at odds with its purpose as a social network.

I'm guessing you're talking about WPCentral on Windows 8/RT. WPCentral has a grand total of one official app developer, who as far as I can tell, isn't even paid to do it.

 

[ohgood]

I disagree, Microsoft just want to be number #1 or #2 in this market. They could not careless if Google and Apple are around or not. While they're no.1.


I agree.


If it repeats, sure. I believe the surface 2 & pro 2 will sell more that their predecessors. So yeah, I can see Google doing something, If Surface2/pro2 sales surpass expectations or previous surface sales. Like giving Chromebooks more ram & SSD memory and sell it competitively against the surface pro 2 and promote the nexus 10 like they did the Moto X. Apple would not care, though.


Not to Apple, but to Google, there are. Hmmm lets just say theirs a reason why there are not any official Google apps in the WP Store, and market share nor mind share has nothing to do with it.


I do not think innovating is the problem. IMO, Microsoft does not know how to sell a product besides Windows OS & Office. Also, there is no connection among the audience, the product & Microsoft. Most importantly, Microsoft must repair their image. If they want to put a dent into Apple's & Google's Market & mind share.

Gosh, that's one on the best, non biased, non market speak, simply opinion, and genuine responses I've ever seen on wpc.

Thank you!

 

[psudotechzealot]

Really? Market share has nothing to do with it? How do you know?

Nope, Not when it comes to this. For example, MSFT asked Google for a Official Youtube app, Google decline to make the app. Microsoft market share started growing by the day, Microsoft asked Google again, Google refuses. Microsoft decides to make their own official youtube app for their WP8 users. Google was not happy about that at all. Google complains about the app does not allow Ads, Microsoft fixed this. That was not good enough for Google. So, Google choose to killed the app through its access key. Why would Google do that, if it was just about the market share?

Why don't banks or Facebook or Instagram make apps for WP?

For the banks:Marking share
Instagramersonal Reasons.
There is a Facebook app for WP8.

Even Mobile Nations provides apps for iOS & Android for their respective forums, but not WP!

irrelevant.

 

[stalemate1]

if Windows becomes cheaper buy going open source then yes but if the price is unaffected then no.

but I'm all for dual booting, gee I'd even like tri, quad and hex booting with all os's (bb10 & 7.1, wp8 & 6.5, Android, ios, symbian)

 

[psudotechzealot]

Oh yeah, If its truly about market share, then why these companies have made an official app for WP8.
ABC News
Adobe Reader
Amazon Mobile
Associated Press
Audible
Bank of America
Bloomberg
Chase Mobile
CNN
E*trade
ESPN / Scorecenter
eBay
Hotels.com
Hulu Plus
IMDb
Kindle
LinkedIn
NBC News
Netflix
New York Times
Pandora
Paypal
Shazam
Spotify
The Weather Channel
Today Show
Tumblr
Twitter
USA Today
Urbanspoon
Wall Street Journal
Wells Fargo
Wikipedia
Yelp

But, But, But its the market share! Its got to be the market share, right? LOL

 

[ag1986]

How many of those are just webViews to a mobile site?

 

[N_LaRUE]

How many of those are just webViews to a mobile site?

Not many. Most are apps.

 

[etad putta]

Dual boot=tech support nightmare. The average consumer can barely use most smartphone features now.

 

[ohgood]

Oh yeah, If its truly about market share, then why these companies have made an official app for WP8.
ABC News
Adobe Reader
Amazon Mobile
Associated Press
Audible
Bank of America
Bloomberg
Chase Mobile
CNN
E*trade
ESPN / Scorecenter
eBay
Hotels.com
Hulu Plus
IMDb
Kindle
LinkedIn
NBC News
Netflix
New York Times
Pandora
Paypal
Shazam
Spotify
The Weather Channel
Today Show
Tumblr
Twitter
USA Today
Urbanspoon
Wall Street Journal
Wells Fargo
Wikipedia
Yelp

But, But, But its the market share! Its got to be the market share, right? LOL

I really don't understand what you're highlighting here.

I got the sarcasm, but need a little help with the point.

 

[tgp]

I really don't understand what you're highlighting here.

I got the sarcasm, but need a little help with the point.

We were having a discussion as to why Google, Facebook, Instagram, etc. don't produce apps for WP. I said it's (lack of) market share. This list proves that I was wrong, the reason isn't market share.

 

[Christian Kallevig]

Wow, this got derailed by the whole Google Apps thing. I guess I'll state my opinion on that though.

I don't think Google sees an immediate threat in Windows Phone, but I do think they want to do everything in their power to stop it dead in its tracks and push people off Windows and off Microsoft services in general. Their blocking of Microsoft's Youtube app is a clear example of this, and so is attempting to turn the Metro version of Chrome into an imitation of Chrome OS. Also, there's their new Chrome apps to consider. Google wants Microsoft to die, plain and simple.

That said, Android is open for vendors to use as they please and Google can do nothing to prevent them from creating a dual-booting phone. It's not exactly the same as blocking access to a service of their own like Youtube. That they have control over.

Besides, HTC is not a big player in the Android space as I said before. Samsung will never do this, Sony is unlikely to, etc.

 

[tgp]

Wow, this got derailed by the whole Google Apps thing. I guess I'll state my opinion on that though.

I don't think Google sees an immediate threat in Windows Phone, but I do think they want to do everything in their power to stop it dead in its tracks and push people off Windows and off Microsoft services in general. Their blocking of Microsoft's Youtube app is a clear example of this, and so is attempting to turn the Metro version of Chrome into an imitation of Chrome OS. Also, there's their new Chrome apps to consider. Google wants Microsoft to die, plain and simple.

That said, Android is open for vendors to use as they please and Google can do nothing to prevent them from creating a dual-booting phone. It's not exactly the same as blocking access to a service of their own like Youtube. That they have control over.

Besides, HTC is not a big player in the Android space as I said before. Samsung will never do this, Sony is unlikely to, etc.

Sorry, this was at least partly my fault. I just have to wonder why Google haters/Microsoft fanboys always say the only reason Google won't produce WP apps is to purposely try to kill it, and that market share has nothing to do with it. If people hate Google so much, why do they want their apps? And, even if it is true, it makes good business sense. All companies try to limit their competitors to some extent. If Google thought there was a dollar to be made by providing WP users with apps, they would do it.

That said, I don't believe Google would block a dual boot device, even if they could. Who cares? Seriously, with the performance & function of the HTC One, I doubt they'd lose many users to WP.

 

[Christian Kallevig]

Oh, if Windows Phone had significant market share Google would absolutely make apps for it. I don't mean to imply anything to the contrary. But I think it's fair to say that they want to keep users from going to Windows Phone in the first place, as it doesn't put their own services front and center in the way Android does. All of Google's services have direct competition from Microsoft, so trying to hold keep their own customers off of Microsoft's platform makes sense for them.

 

[Oliver Newell]

Yes, as others are saying this will be a path to introduce people to windows phone 8. This way you can compare the two OS's side by side, nearly. Smart move if HTC agree to it.

 

[N_LaRUE]

I think the biggest issue with regards to dual boot comes down to hardware limitations and OS requirements. That's not to say it can't be done but both OS would have to be able to use the hardware. Then you have the space requirement needed by the OS to run. So it would need a large quantity of space, something most phones don't have. So we're talking a premium phone, probably out of reach of most people price bracket.

As for Google, they have a horrible relationship with MS so not surprising how things are with them. If MS was #1 in mobile they would bend over backwards to get on WP, that that's not how things are. For all the others out there, they'll just point to market share as an excuse. Some do have a dislike of MS as well. Not much you can do about it.

WP has to gain market share regardless. In some countries it has but there are still many issues surrounding it. Either MS will make WP popular or it's going to get crushed and become niche product.

 

[WinFan1]

I don't know I may be in the minority here but I think Microsoft should just stand behind its own products. I don't see a need to have to compromise what's great about windows phone just so that some people can be happy. if windows phone dual boots with android and android has more apps, wouldn't they just stay on the android side of the operating system anyways? It will just become the same exact problem. what's the difference between that and just having a stand alone product? I speak of course in relativity to mindshare for windows phone.

 

[montsa007]

It'd need a LOT of research, making sure your calls, texts are in sync on both the OSes, thats the first thing coming to my mind.

 

[wamsille]

OK, let?s put dual-booting a mobile phone into practical terms.

On Monday you felt kind of sassy with your new device so you started off with Android because you had checks from relatives for Christmas you wanted to deposit on your bank?s app.

On Tuesday you drove across state to meet up with family, but knowing coverage was spotty you booted into Windows Phone to use Here Drive+. The offline maps did it for you. They are no more or less accurate than what you find on Android, but you can store more maps (free) on the device compared to Google Maps.

On Wednesday you want to go exploring, but all your friends are on Google+ in a hangout talking about this concert going on later that night. You boot into Android.

Later that day someone sends you a text with an address to the concert, you keep it in your messages because you know you have Here Drive, so getting there won?t be a problem.

Time escapes you, and now you are running late for the show. You switch to Windows for Here Drive, only now the text message with the venue?s address is on your partition of Android. The concert is literally in the middle of nowhere with no standard name, since it is an indy show and word of mouth is all the advertising it has. After some delay, you get the address emailed to yourself which is accessible to either partition.

On Thursday you are driving back, using Here Drive. Unfortunately Here Drive points you in the wrong direction using a street that is no longer available. You remember you have Scout installed but there are no offline maps on Windows Phone. You pull off to a Starbucks with free Wifi and boot into Android. You download Scout and get some offline maps.

On Friday you are looking back through your photos. Android?s access to the Windows partition is restricted unless you root your device. To view all your photos at once you need to plug into a laptop.

Friday night you crack and root your device. You learn the hard way what happens when you accidentally delete a file on your Windows partition you believe to be safe. Unfortunately there is not a utility available (yet) that lets you restore your device?s partition table. It either has to be all Android from here or tempt fate on a warranty replacement (good luck) or paying your deductible for an insurance replacement.

Sunday comes and after a day without a working phone you manage to get everything restored.





People on Android already have the capability of dual-booting their devices ? with different flavors of Android. If I wanted to, I could dual-boot my HTC One and have it run Cyanogenmod and stock HTC Sense. I would just choose which backup I wanted to restore from. It?s not practical though. Neither would a device that has two completely different operating systems entirely.

Dual-booting devices would be for a niche crowd of users that like to tinker. You would have to have devices certified to run two separate operating systems, and carriers would likely spend more than twice the amount of time approving updates to go out over the air. Would you want a device that is ?stuck? on Windows 8.1 and one that is stuck on Android 4.2.2 with little hope beyond a chance update once during its 13 month life-cycle? I?m being generous there, too, because you have to consider a ?better? device comes out every 6 months.

And then what of the relationship of the manufacturer(s) that opt to build dual-booting devices with Microsoft and Google? If either OS runs sluggishly it could have a lasting, negative effect. HTC couldn?t afford to lose more market share with Android. Think Microsoft wants HTC? Nah, they just acquired Nokia and would be better off securing BlackBerry for enterprise solutions.

What about also rans? Huawei? That arguably might happen, but be restricted to Asian markets only.

Samsung wouldn?t do this, because they are going to position their own OS soon.

And Motorola? No way.

Nokia? As if.

I think the best case for a dual-booting device is a tablet rather than a mobile phone. Fewer obstacles to overcome in that regard, and most here would agree with that statement. No carrier control and $600-700 gets you a nice tablet with modern hardware running both operating systems. But, the device would need to compliment both operating systems. That?s just not going to happen though.