Ecosystem isn't Windows Phone's Achilles heel, hardware is

[smoledman]

I wouldn't count #3 for the simple reason that Nokia has the best smartphone cameras on the market right now and WP8/8.1 does not need 100 cores and 48 gigs of RAM to run as smooth as it does. You could probably drop #4 since you only need 3 strikes to get fanned.

I don't really care for baseball analogies. The bottom line is WP has so much going against it and very little for it. If you're going up to a person right now who's going down to an AT&T Wireless store to get a new phone how would you convince them that Windows Phone is better than the competition?

BTW it's hyperbole to bring up 100 cores and 48GB of RAM when Lumia 920 is struggling to run WP8.1.

 

[fatclue_98]

I don't really care for baseball analogies. The bottom line is WP has so much going against it and very little for it. If you're going up to a person right now who's going down to an AT&T Wireless store to get a new phone how would you convince them that Windows Phone is better than the competition?

BTW it's hyperbole to bring up 100 cores and 48GB of RAM when Lumia 920 is struggling to run WP8.1.

WP8 is not for everybody. It's not a question of it being better than the competition, per se. It's more about what your particular needs are. It's true of any mobile OS when you get right down to it.

As for the 920 struggling, I have one on DP and I don't see it struggling at all. Fact is, you're the first person I've heard of stating that.

 

[spaulagain]

Everything is an Achilles heel for Windows Phone:

#1 - Microsoft name attached to it
#2 - Live Tiles UI are not embraced by most consumers
#3 - The hardware is not up to snuff
#4 - the OS features are not up to iOS 8/Android L level
#5 - the app gap is very real

​That's 5 huge strikes against it.

That's a highly subjective list.

#1 - While Microsoft name certainly has a stigma, it's also one the reasons I like WP, because its a Microsoft product.
#2 - Not embraced? Live Tiles are a combination of widgets and app launchers, something every use has used. Maybe you mean Metro is not embraced which is also odd considering both iOS and Android have gone very Metro/Flat style.
#3 - You're kidding right? WP has some of the best hardware both design and performance wise. Samsung Galaxy is probably the only truly better device from a hardware spec, and that's the flagship Android device, not the average device.
#4 - Features with 8.1 Update 1 are on par with iOS8 and Android. That feature gap is disappearing if not gone. I've lists nearly 2 dozen features iPhone users don't have in this thread and there are more. Each OS has their benefits now, no clear winner.
#5 - App gap is on far games a minute local apps now, still an issue but not the fabled app gap all the tech bloggers spout about.

 

[smoledman]

That's a highly subjective list.

#1 - While Microsoft name certainly has a stigma, it's also one the reasons I like WP, because its a Microsoft product.
#2 - Not embraced? Live Tiles are a combination of widgets and app launchers, something every use has used. Maybe you mean Metro is not embraced which is also odd considering both iOS and Android have gone very Metro/Flat style.
#3 - You're kidding right? WP has some of the best hardware both design and performance wise. Samsung Galaxy is probably the only truly better device from a hardware spec, and that's the flagship Android device, not the average device.
#4 - Features with 8.1 Update 1 are on par with iOS8 and Android. That feature gap is disappearing if not gone. I've lists nearly 2 dozen features iPhone users don't have in this thread and there are more. Each OS has their benefits now, no clear winner.
#5 - App gap is on far games a minute local apps now, still an issue but not the fabled app gap all the tech bloggers spout about.

Nothing on WP8.1 is as good as iOS 8 Continuity. That is just radically killer and a HUGE plus for Apple. Microsoft should have come out with that earlier. Oh and iOS 8 interactive notifications and replies. I bet Apple has that patented to hell.

The app gap has as much to do with an app being much less quality & updated compared to iOS counterparts as not being in the Windows Store itself. This is much documented and true. Hell even Microsoft updates their own apps on iOS well before they do on Windows Phone!

 

[Ordeith]

Microsoft has access to all of Apple's patents. It's why WP has rubber banding while android doesn't.

 

[Visa Declined]

The app gap has as much to do with an app being much less quality & updated compared to iOS counterparts as not being in the Windows Store itself.

Much of the quality problem stems from the fact that Microsoft is paying developers to make apps for Windows Phone. Developers are doing a "good enough" job to get paid, and then they ignore the app or game from that point on. That's what happened with Instagram, and it won't ever get an update.

 

[DoctorSaline]

Much of the quality problem stems from the fact that Microsoft is paying developers to make apps for Windows Phone. Developers are doing a "good enough" job to get paid, and then they ignore the app or game from that point on. That's what happened with Instagram, and it won't ever get an update.

Honstly, I've lost respect for these popular multibillion dollar services which either ain't developing for WP or if they are, that is bad quality, like Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Snapchat, Soundcloud, Google maps, Youtube. And honestly if MS ever came out with native apps on its platform as an alternative, I'm totally jumping ship from them. Business strategy or not, there is no pretext for ignoring 2.4% which actually forms millions of people. And although they have millions of dollars of business, they can't reassign some of it to develop for millions of people. F*** them.

 

[unstoppablekem]

Back in the WP7-Mango days it was pretty obvious why the OS wasn't successful: it was missing many features and the app gap was massive. Nowadays, most of the important features are there (Digital Assistant, Folders, Notification Centre...) and the app gap is lessening. Yes the app gap still exists, anyone denying this is a fool but because many official apps are now available I would say most people could carry a WP as their daily driver. So why don't they? The obvious answer for me is hardware. Sure Nokia has released some great phones over the last 2 years but let's be honest, they are all rehashed designs, improved iterations of the Lumia 800. I can already hear the screams about Apple and Samsung doing the exact same thing but the thing is Apple is in a world of its own so you can't really compare to them. They could sell ?50 toothpicks and get away with it. As for Samsung, sure they keep the same design but every new phone comes with its own suit of new (albeit mostly useless) features that look great on TV or at the phone shop. But more importantly, from a user's perspective, if you don't like the Galaxy S5 design you can go with the HTC One, Xperia Z or LG G3. If you don't like the Lumia design, what are you left with? Well, you're left with checking out the android line-up.
Some will blame the employees in the aforementioned phone shops but really can you blame them? On one end you could present your customer with 4-5 state of the art phones or on the other end you could convince them to go with that Nokia phone that's mostly the same as that other one but takes better pictures unless they want that old HTC/Samsung phone that may or may not be still supported. What would you do?
I'm not even going to enter the mess that is the American carrier business but the bottom line is this: more than additional official apps, Windows Phone needs to bring back Samsung and LG so they release truly modern and feature packed high phones like they are on android. They also need to get Sony on board and HTC committed beyond the HTC One W8. Great hardware sells and great sales attract developers. It's up to Microsoft to sell that message to other OEMs.

I agree. I mean, there are currently two main flagships to choose from (as the Ativ SE is a Verizon exclusive), the 930/Icon and 1520. But if those don't appeal to people, like me, then you are screwed. I am glad there will be more devices from other OEM's, but it would be nice if they weren't exclusives. Another reason why WPs don't sell as much. In many places, ESPECIALLY the US, every Windows Phone we have here is either an exclusive to one or two carriers, and the other carrier might get the same phone, but different design.

No exclusivity+more devices to choose from=better sales

 

[janil17]

No exclusivity+more devices to choose from=better sales

Definitely! I really like the Nokia 930/Icon phone, and the HTC One for Windows looks great, but neither of those are available or predicted to be available on T-Mobile (U.S.)

Having a choice between a Lumia 635 and a Lumia 625 is not good enough for me.

So I either need to switch carriers to get a decent phone, or I need to switch to another phone OS. I don't think I should have to make that choice, and I am not currently happy with T-Mobile or Microsoft at the moment.

My phone (HTC 8x) is falling apart, including a missing volume button. I can keep it working until IFA.. I hope I have better choices at that time. I've used Windows Phone for 4 years in December and don't want to switch to another OS.

 

[unstoppablekem]

Definitely! I really like the Nokia 930/Icon phone, and the HTC One for Windows looks great, but neither of those are available or predicted to be available on T-Mobile (U.S.)

Having a choice between a Lumia 635 and a Lumia 625 is not good enough for me.

So I either need to switch carriers to get a decent phone, or I need to switch to another phone OS. I don't think I should have to make that choice, and I am not currently happy with T-Mobile or Microsoft at the moment.

My phone (HTC 8x) is falling apart, including a missing volume button. I can keep it working until IFA.. I hope I have better choices at that time. I've used Windows Phone for 4 years in December and don't want to switch to another OS.

I completely understand. Since Microkia only cares about budget phones now, we probably wont see a high end flagship from them for awhile. That leads me to wanting the W8, but I'm on AT&T, so that leads me to switching to Android, probably for the Moto X+1.

 

[spaulagain]

I completely understand. Since Microkia only cares about budget phones now, we probably wont see a high end flagship from them for awhile. That leads me to wanting the W8, but I'm on AT&T, so that leads me to switching to Android, probably for the Moto X+1.

People really need to stop jumping to conclusions. You think maybe MS is waiting for threshold to launch new flag ship devices?

I was hoping for a new flagship this fall too, but I certainly wouldn't jump ship to Android because I might have to wait a few more months for more robust flagship with the next big version of Windows.

 

[Torcher Death]

People really need to stop jumping to conclusions. You think maybe MS is waiting for threshold to launch new flag ship devices?

I was hoping for a new flagship this fall too, but I certainly wouldn't jump ship to Android because I might have to wait a few more months for more robust flagship with the next big version of Windows.

& the odds of them releasing it with flaming hot, outdated hardware are very high.

 

[unstoppablekem]

People really need to stop jumping to conclusions. You think maybe MS is waiting for threshold to launch new flag ship devices?

I was hoping for a new flagship this fall too, but I certainly wouldn't jump ship to Android because I might have to wait a few more months for more robust flagship with the next big version of Windows.

Oh YAY, the Waiting Game (trademarked by Microsoft/Nokia), YAY! I guess I'll keep holding on to my 920 for EVEN longer and wait till Spring 2015! It will probably have the Snapdragon 805, wow! By then Android phones will have the Snapdragon 808 and 810, but who cares, Android needs so much power because it's LagDroid! I have proof, as I just used the Samsung Galaxy S1, and BOY it's laggy! That means for sure Android is still laggy on all phones! BEFORE MWC 2014, I was hoping there would be new devices at //build. And there was, the 6 month old Icon, just a global variant! So revolutionary! Who cares that it's too fat, too heavy, too big, no microSD, and only on one carrier in the US, because I'll be willing to spend $1000 on a phone that isn't worthy of replacing my 920, even if it doesn't work 100% with my network!

Sorry for the over sarcasm, but I had to get it out. You have to feel us 920 users' pain.

 

[unstoppablekem]

& the odds of them releasing it with flaming hot, outdated hardware are very high.

And the first 10 batches of phones will have some kind of issues, lol. Nokia hasn't still gained my trust with their quality checks.

 

[Tahiti Bob]

That's the issue, its not a lack of hardware choice, it's a lack of carrier support. Hopefully now with Microsoft in charge, they can throw some muscle at the carriers and get them to support a wide range of WP devices.

I purposefully didn't address the issues of the US market, this goes beyond Windows Phone or Microsoft. The whole way of buying and selling phones over there is messed up and the US government really should take a proper look at it. So I'm looking at it from a European perspective where I can buy pretty much any phone and use it on any carrier and still I can only go with Nokia if I want a relatively new Windows Phone device. That or I can have a look at the much more varied Android line-up.

 

[fatclue_98]

I purposefully didn't address the issues of the US market, this goes beyond Windows Phone or Microsoft. The whole way of buying and selling phones over there is messed up and the US government really should take a proper look at it. So I'm looking at it from a European perspective where I can buy pretty much any phone and use it on any carrier and still I can only go with Nokia if I want a relatively new Windows Phone device. That or I can have a look at the much more varied Android line-up.

There are those who say the government interferes too much in the affairs of the private sector. This is not an indictment or an endorsement of this view, just a tip to someone who's perplexed regarding carriers and how they operate in the US.


Sent from my iPhone using WPCentral Forums

 

[radmanvr]

Skimmed through most of the stuff.

What is this attitude that there has to be a be-all-end-all, alpha-omega, one phone to rule them all.

You get the phone that fits you the most and I think Microsoft's Windows Phone is a niche phone which will only attract the people its designed for. Why does WP need to be the one phone to rule them all. Let that be Android.

Also saw some folks talking about people who buy by the numbers not quality this is true for me also I bought an FX-8320 because it was 8-Core CPU and it was so slow at single core compute power that I had to get an i5 4670k 4 core. I originally thought 8core > 4core but that wasn't the case. Maybe its different with phones idk not a phone expert.

P.S I'd rather see people argue over which Burger is the one burger to rule them all. I choose Fuddruckers.

 

[tgp]

P.S I'd rather see people argue over which Burger is the one burger to rule them all. I choose Fuddruckers.

Good idea. Five Guys for my burger!

 

[Tahiti Bob]

Skimmed through most of the stuff.

What is this attitude that there has to be a be-all-end-all, alpha-omega, one phone to rule them all.

You get the phone that fits you the most and I think Microsoft's Windows Phone is a niche phone which will only attract the people its designed for. Why does WP need to be the one phone to rule them all. Let that be Android.

Also saw some folks talking about people who buy by the numbers not quality this is true for me also I bought an FX-8320 because it was 8-Core CPU and it was so slow at single core compute power that I had to get an i5 4670k 4 core. I originally thought 8core > 4core but that wasn't the case. Maybe its different with phones idk not a phone expert.

P.S I'd rather see people argue over which Burger is the one burger to rule them all. I choose Fuddruckers.

You skimmed through the wrong posts, the OP is absolutely not about specs war.

 

[unstoppablekem]

Good idea. Five Guys for my burger!

Oh HELL NO! In N Out FTW!