Ecosystem isn't Windows Phone's Achilles heel, hardware is

[fatclue_98]

How 'bout the Royale with cheese or the Kahuna burger?


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[Tahiti Bob]

Windows Phone share down to 2.5%, everything is going great.
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[tgp]

Oh HELL NO! In N Out FTW!

No In N Out where I live unfortunately! I've never been to one. I'd like to go to the famous one, at least famous among planespotters, near LAX. I'm interested in commercial aviation as well.

 

[fatclue_98]

"You mind if I have some of your tasty beverage to wash this down?"

What?


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[Visa Declined]

What?

Say WHAT again, I dare you, I double dare you mother f*#**r!

 

[fatclue_98]

Do I look like a b***h?

 

[unstoppablekem]

No In N Out where I live unfortunately! I've never been to one. I'd like to go to the famous one, at least famous among planespotters, near LAX. I'm interested in commercial aviation as well.

It's SO GOOD!

 

[anony_mouse]

There are those who say the government interferes too much in the affairs of the private sector. This is not an indictment or an endorsement of this view, just a tip to someone who's perplexed regarding carriers and how they operate in the US.

I'm also confused about the situation in the US. In Europe, and as far as I know pretty much anywhere else in the world, you have up to four choices:
1. Get a contract with an operator, including a phone. The phone may be tied to that operator and may have been customised by that operator (although that's not always the case, and operator bloatware is rather unpopular these days). The contract will typically run for 1-2 years, and the cost of the phone is paid over the life of the contract, sometimes with an upfront payment.
2. Get a pay as you go phone via an operator. This may have some discount on the full price of the phone, and some operator lock, bloatware, and/or bundled credit.
3. Buy a generic phone, unlocked and without carrier bloatware, and a SIM only contract with an operator. You pay the full price of the phone upfront, and it belongs to you and can be used with any compatible operator (which will usually be all of them across most countries in the world). The contract will typically run month by month (although you may get a discount for a longer term) and prices are often very low.
4. Buy a phone outright as in 3, and get a pay as you go SIM.

Depending on local regulation, 1 and 2 may not be available in all countries. The system is underpinned in some cases by local regulation requiring operators to use certain standards, such as the GSM family, which covers not only the air interface but also the SIM and certain other features. Number portability is available in many countries so customers can move between operators without changing their phone number. This provides for a degree of ongoing competition between operators and limits, to some degree, restrictive practices and lock in. The cheap availability of GSM equipment (both phones and network equipment) means that even where regulation doesn't exist, a similar model is usually followed.

Personally I go for option 3, as it works out cheaper overall (although with greater upfront cost) and is much more flexible. My monthly cost is around 10-15 euros. I could probably do even better by changing operators every few months (while keeping the same phone), but generally I have better things to do.

How are things different in the US? Which options are not available, and are additional options available?

 

[fatclue_98]

I'm also confused about the situation in the US. In Europe, and as far as I know pretty much anywhere else in the world, you have up to four choices:
1. Get a contract with an operator, including a phone. The phone may be tied to that operator and may have been customised by that operator (although that's not always the case, and operator bloatware is rather unpopular these days). The contract will typically run for 1-2 years, and the cost of the phone is paid over the life of the contract, sometimes with an upfront payment.
2. Get a pay as you go phone via an operator. This may have some discount on the full price of the phone, and some operator lock, bloatware, and/or bundled credit.
3. Buy a generic phone, unlocked and without carrier bloatware, and a SIM only contract with an operator. You pay the full price of the phone upfront, and it belongs to you and can be used with any compatible operator (which will usually be all of them across most countries in the world). The contract will typically run month by month (although you may get a discount for a longer term) and prices are often very low.
4. Buy a phone outright as in 3, and get a pay as you go SIM.

Depending on local regulation, 1 and 2 may not be available in all countries. The system is underpinned in some cases by local regulation requiring operators to use certain standards, such as the GSM family, which covers not only the air interface but also the SIM and certain other features. Number portability is available in many countries so customers can move between operators without changing their phone number. This provides for a degree of ongoing competition between operators and limits, to some degree, restrictive practices and lock in. The cheap availability of GSM equipment (both phones and network equipment) means that even where regulation doesn't exist, a similar model is usually followed.

Personally I go for option 3, as it works out cheaper overall (although with greater upfront cost) and is much more flexible. My monthly cost is around 10-15 euros. I could probably do even better by changing operators every few months (while keeping the same phone), but generally I have better things to do.

How are things different in the US? Which options are not available, and are additional options available?

I was responding to a previous post from a European brother who couldn't understand why the US government doesn't get involved with the telecoms and their business practices.


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[anony_mouse]

I was responding to a previous post from a European brother who couldn't understand why the US government doesn't get involved with the telecoms and their business practices.


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Thanks for that. But maybe you could help explain the situation in the US so that the rest of us can understand it?

 

[skstrials]

I agree that the limitation is in the hardware, but my reasoning might be a bit different than the most of the users.

None of the Nokia flagship phones have user replaceable batteries. For a person who keeps the phone for 3 years before replacing, I know that the battery is the first one to go, as the current lithium batteries start to show its age at the 1 year mark. And I am happy to use a bit of screw drivers to get the battery out, but the Nokia designs do not even allow that. They are extremely hard to be serviced afterwards.

For instance, Nokia N8, even though it had a sealed in battery, that battery was easily removable. I am not even asking for a full Samsung like removable battery.

Until Nokia improves its serviceability in their designs, I won't be picking up any Windows Phones anytime soon.

 

[fatclue_98]

Thanks for that. But maybe you could help explain the situation in the US so that the rest of us can understand it?

There's nothing for me to explain. Carriers here work pretty much as you described. As I said, there is a notion among many here in the US that the Federal government interferes too much in the affairs of the private sector. I don't applaud or condemn this view, people can think what they wish. Personally, I don't do contracts with carriers so I could care less what shenanigans they pull. If their service suits me, I'm in. If they don't, I go elsewhere. I port out at least 3 or 4 times a year whenever there's a better deal. That's the luxury of being off contract. Right now, AT&T has my business but Verizon has dropped their pants as well as their prices so.......

 

[anony_mouse]

There's nothing for me to explain. Carriers here work pretty much as you described.

Thank you for the explanation.

Verizon has dropped their pants

????

 

[Tahiti Bob]

Thank you for the explanation.

I know I'm European like you but I wouldn't advise you to settle with that (non) answer. If it was like you described, you wouldn't hear people constantly moan about carrier exclusives. For instance I doubt you can walk into a Verizon store, buy an unlocked M8 and use it on AT&T or T-mobile. You could do that here in the UK and probably wherever you live. Best to ask someone who is actually interested in giving you a proper answer.

 

[AG VK]

Honstly, I've lost respect for these popular multibillion dollar services which either ain't developing for WP or if they are, that is bad quality, like Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Snapchat, Soundcloud, Google maps, Youtube. And honestly if MS ever came out with native apps on its platform as an alternative, I'm totally jumping ship from them. Business strategy or not, there is no pretext for ignoring 2.4% which actually forms millions of people. And although they have millions of dollars of business, they can't reassign some of it to develop for millions of people. F*** them.

Clearly you understand nothing about software development or about business in general. Even if I have billions, why would I spend even one dollar developing a WP app if I do not see any reason to expect that this $1 will give me at least $0.01 profit? It's stupid and you should try to understand before running off at the mouth, just because you're pissed that the phone you bought does not give you access to services you deem desirable. You should change your platform or shut up. I'd prefer the latter, FYI.

 

[anony_mouse]

I know I'm European like you but I wouldn't advise you to settle with that (non) answer. If it was like you described, you wouldn't hear people constantly moan about carrier exclusives. For instance I doubt you can walk into a Verizon store, buy an unlocked M8 and use it on AT&T or T-mobile. You could do that here in the UK and probably wherever you live. Best to ask someone who is actually interested in giving you a proper answer.

Well, I'd be happy to hear a more complete explanation if someone will provide one.

I am particularly curious about the common complaint that phone X is not coming to network Y. If you really want phone X, why not move to a network that will give it to you, or get a SIM only contract that allows you to buy the phone you want? I assume there is a good reason but I don't know what it is.
(I realise that things are not quite so simple, especially with Verizon (?) whose network uses some unusual CDMA technology... But I think AT&T and T-Mobile use GSM/3G/LTE, right?)

 

[fatclue_98]

I know I'm European like you but I wouldn't advise you to settle with that (non) answer. If it was like you described, you wouldn't hear people constantly moan about carrier exclusives. For instance I doubt you can walk into a Verizon store, buy an unlocked M8 and use it on AT&T or T-mobile. You could do that here in the UK and probably wherever you live. Best to ask someone who is actually interested in giving you a proper answer.

I answered his question to his satisfaction. Who are you to decide if it's a non answer?

To answer your query, if you purchase a carrier unlocked device at full retail and the frequencies are compatible with another's, then yes it'll work. Why should the government get involved with carrier exclusives? It really makes no sense.


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[DoctorSaline]

You should change your platform or shut up. I'd prefer the latter, FYI.

Clearly, you chewed on your own preferences.

 

[fatclue_98]

Well, I'd be happy to hear a more complete explanation if someone will provide one.

I am particularly curious about the common complaint that phone X is not coming to network Y. If you really want phone X, why not move to a network that will give it to you, or get a SIM only contract that allows you to buy the phone you want? I assume there is a good reason but I don't know what it is.
(I realise that things are not quite so simple, especially with Verizon (?) whose network uses some unusual CDMA technology... But I think AT&T and T-Mobile use GSM/3G/LTE, right?)

Verizon uses LTE on all their phones. They've been on SIMs for a few years now but they still have CDMA fallback. Many of their phones also have GSM UMTS for overseas travel and some (L822) also have US HSPA frequencies. Verizon sells all their phones unlocked because of a spectrum deal they made with the FCC, so if you slip a SIM from another operator that accepts the device's bands, it will work. At worst you'll be on EDGE.

Sprint, on the other hand, is not as magnanimous. Fact is, Sprint just blows.

 

[smoledman]

I disagree. For myself personally I would definitely switch back to Windows Phone if 2 apps happened:

* GMail
* Youtube

both at the same quality level as the apps on Android. That would be the clincher for me because I already love the Live Tile interface with the update(Live Folders, transparency), app list, Cortana, Action Center, Visual Voicemail.

But those 2 damn Google apps.