EMBARASSING and APPALLING - That's what my Surface Pro 4 is.

[Thorgal Aegirsson]

Understandable but SP4/SB were massively defective in the beginning. And in the case of those devices I think recall would be more appropriate. This is very unfair and unprofessional to sell supposedly premium devices for a couple thousand dollars only to have them replaced with used ones with tear and wear because people were told: Wait, we'll release updates that will fix everything, so they waited longer than 30 days. Many people brought them to be fixed and also got refurbished. It's legal, sure but highly unethical and the only effect is that MS lost many future customers. People here, on this forum are mostly friendly towards MS but in my work I constantly meet people who express their negative opinions/emotions when they see my SP4. And I, personally, stopped recommending MS products to my clients. Effectively that's literally tens of thousands of dollars lost in business just because of me. And there are many people equally disappointed.

 

[X0LARIUM]

This is not a new practice, nor is it "high-handedness" as you put it. MOST companies do this, from Apple to HTC to Samsung, to Turtle Beach and, yes, Microsoft. Whenever you send in a device for service or if it is defective, they will ship you a refurbished device or factory reconditioned one. If you take an iPhone into an Apple Store and they cannot fix it, you will get a refurbished device.

The only way to get a brand new device is to be within your return period at the retailer you purchased it from, and exchange at the point of sale.

So, the easy thing to do, is to take it back to where you bought it from, and exchange it for a working device. If you are within the return window, they will do a defective replacement. This is a real thing, as I had a bum Surface 2 device, and took it back to Best Buy within my 30 day return window, and had it swapped out with zero hassle.

HOWEVER... if you are outside of the return window from your retailer, I'm afraid you have 2 options here.

1. Accept a refurbished/factory reconditioned device.
2. Sell it on eBay/CraigsList and be done with it.

And as far as factory reconditioned/refurbished goes, most of the time the device was returned with cosmetic defects. It cannot be sold as new stock, so they fix whatever cosmetic or possible internal issues may have existed. Then, you get it with the EXACT same warranty as a new device.

I don't know if you have read my previous posts and don't know if I can explain this to you, but I will try.

2 FACTS about my issue:

1. The anniversary update botched it. It was ABSOLUTELY fine WITHOUT it.

2. The update hit AFTER the return window was passed.

The warranty is practically useless in that case as any device, even if it is a manufacturing defect, when returned, needs to be replaced with a refurbished.

I don't accept this one bit. The device is in warranty and I have paid the whole price for it AND I DESERVE a BRAND NEW Unit.

And this entire argument of "x is ALSO doing it" is nothing but childish. By that logic Apple and Google did a lot in their past, as a result they are No.1 and 2 respectively. and WP is a distant 3rd. Where did this logic go at that time? I don't care what Apple and Google is doing. I care what MS is doing because I have PAID MY HARD EARNED MONEY to them for a device that doesn't work as promised. Period.

 

[X0LARIUM]

Understandable but SP4/SB were massively defective in the beginning. And in the case of those devices I think recall would be more appropriate. This is very unfair and unprofessional to sell supposedly premium devices for a couple thousand dollars only to have them replaced with used ones with tear and wear because people were told: Wait, we'll release updates that will fix everything, so they waited longer than 30 days. Many people brought them to be fixed and also got refurbished. It's legal, sure but highly unethical and the only effect is that MS lost many future customers. People here, on this forum are mostly friendly towards MS but in my work I constantly meet people who express their negative opinions/emotions when they see my SP4. And I, personally, stopped recommending MS products to my clients. Effectively that's literally tens of thousands of dollars lost in business just because of me. And there are many people equally disappointed.

I am one of those people. I have stopped using MS and any MS product henceforth. Especially after I have invested a 4 digit number in a device that doesn't work as it is supposed to. It is appalling, shameful and downright wrong to give people back a refurbished product for a full price.
I used to recommend MS products to a lot of friends. Not anymore. Apple, no thanks. And that leaves only Google, which I am fine with. What is the worse argument against Google? That they snoop in your messages and mails? Let them. They will see nothing but a few Android hack-talk, a few romantic messages to the Mrs and work emails that hardly matter to them. Like I told a friend, I barely have anything to say, forget hide, that I should be worried with a Google product. With the PiXel phone out and PiXel C tablet - laptop hybrid, I think I can wave MS a decent goodbye soon.

 

[anon(5327127)]

Weeks have flown by and STILL... the various people within the business, here, are still using their Surface Pro 4 devices without issue. For information none of them use the SP4 dock as we've a load of SP3 docks.

Again... if there's an issue and you're not happy then return the device and move on.

 

[Laura Knotek]

[WARN]We respect all choices here and must uphold any members respectful participation no matter which platform.
There will be no tolerance for trashing or any insults directed against anyone for using or switching to an alternative.
1: Please stay on the topic at hand
2: Allow others to participate without having their personal choice degraded with unacceptable replies.[/WARN]

 

[princeegli]

Zero tolerance is of Satan,about the SF4....hardware has got some nice touches....just win10 is messed up,you can always put win7 or win8.1 on I you so choose

 

[princeegli]

don't false accuse others of "attacking" you...when they don't agree with you....dont get offended

 

[rdubmu]

I just got a surface pro 4 on black Friday, it works like charm and I am not experiencing any of the issues you have. Windows 10 > Windows 8.1 > Windows 7.

 

[anon(601415)]

I think you'll find that you are very happy with it. Congratulations!

 

[spoonxii]

Yes been using mine every day all day docked with multiple monitors Photoshop, Illustrator, Excel all at one time. Undocked at home at night and traveling. It is a work horse and I love it.

 

[Gonzax]

Mine works like a charm and it's one of the best pieces of hardware I have ever bought

 

[emberboss]

Problem is: This is a recurring theme with MS products. "Corrupted update" "Do a fresh install" "Driver issue"

This is a MS device. So the system integration and quality control should be impeccable.

When I got my Surface book and ultimately the SP4 (i like the form factor better), I had to update for over an hour. After that, I had issues with both devices and had to bring them back to the MS Store in my area. The Surface dock (new one) crashed my Surface book and Surface Pro 4 and and eventually had to be replaced and that did not work. "Driver issues" was blamed by the MS store personnel and All I have plugged into the dock was the device itself and one 24-inch monitor. I am not very happy being a for pay beta tester for any manufacture. This is why I switched because my new MBP had two recalls and eventually had to be replaced when it did not happen in past years (while Jobs was still in charge). Also Apple hardware updates are too few and not compelling.

ALL software ships with bugs, i get that, but such in your face bugs? no, if QA did not catch this, they suck.

Do I like my MS computers? Yeah
Did it make me question the switch to Windows? Yeah
DO I judge ALL Microsoft products on this experience? Yeah, kind of

Will I switch back? I don't know, but I am giving this setup a fair shake.

Microsoft has such an #AWESOME opportunity with the surface line and WIndows 10. They should not goof it up. and take the extra month for QA and testing. They can make a quantum leap ahead while the competition and other hardware manufactures (not just Apple) are in the last decade of computing.

 

[rdubmu]

I haven't had any of these issues, sorry you are having trouble. It might be your internet speed on why it takes over an hour to update, also it is pretty normal for any windows computer to do windows updates during setup, after the initial setup, it won't take an hour to update unless it is a major update. Do you play with the driver settings? Did you return your faulty product and get a new one?

 

[Mikeman]

@Mikeman First of all, you called yourself IT Guru and a hacker and you regularly reinstall your OS and that's fine if you like it but no one reasonable can expect a person to spend $2900 like you did and go through all the hoops you just suggested to have his computer work. It's CRAZY!!!
What Hoops? Installing the Surface Drivers manually as opposed to allowing the Windows Update to do it for me? HUGE Hoop - I feel ya there.
Second, it doesn't work. I happened to have a loooot of issues with exactly the same conf as yours plus surface dock and since AU was released I reinstalled windows probably 10 times already. Also the way you proposed. It doesn't help a bit.

Sorry it didn't work for you - Works for our company and we have now 18 SP4s and counting - Great machine - works flawlessly.

Third, the update from yesterday (.222) actually fixed a lot of things. Fingers crossed but so far I managed to even shut down my
SP a few times without freezing. AMAZING!! A $3k computer that doesn't freeze while restarting.

Great - Hope it works out for you in the end. I don't know of a single computer on the market that doesn't have a single issue. A buddy of mine just spent 8000 on a gaming rig and - YUP! You guessed it - he has some issues.

The bottom line is that the problem lies somewhere deep in the OS and MS simply screwed it up. Again. As they've been doing for the past two years (coincidental with some important appointment and changes in the company).
Lastly, since there seems to be a big group of people who have problems and another big group of people who claim their machines work perfectly fine and the first group is stupid and can't appreciate what they have it leads me to conclusion that although officially the specs are the same, the components in those computers are not. Apparently they use some different parts that do not work they same with the drivers MS provide. And we can all try different gimmicks like installing drivers from various places in various order and it won't help until MS actually release the correct drivers.

I don't imagine there is some huge Microsoft Company out there stamping out JUST parts for the SP4 - Just like an old Stereo System - the best ones were / are comprised of components from all kinds of systems.

 

[Thorgal Aegirsson]

@Mikeman I don't think you understood what I said about the parts but that's ok. I'm happy for you and your company that you don't have any problems (except that you have to manually install drivers on 18 computers worth what? 30-40 thousand dollars?). I am unhappy for myself and all other people who have serious problems with our Surfaces. Obviously I run my business differently than you and my time is money and my customers wouldn't want to pay for hours of installing drivers on their machines.
You seem to think that this Surface is my first computer and I am somehow surprised that computers can cause problems. Although I don't call myself IT guru, ninja or other hacker, I did spend my share of life with computers, ca. 35 years, big part of it professionally. And if you think that a computer that costs $3k or $8k (like your friend's) can have issues I totally agree with you, it certainly can. But not if the issues are very serious and happen every single day when doing something as simple as booting up or shutting down. If you think SUCH issues are ok after spending this kind of money than we live in very different worlds.
To be honest, 4 months and a few batches of updates later I can actually use my Surface for (mobile) work. It's not perfect. There are still minor issues almost every other day but it's bearable. That being said, SP4 was released 15 months ago and if it takes that long to merely make it bearable then I say: no, thank you. Next time I'm out there looking for a computer or a phone, for myself or a company, Microsoft is not going to be my obvious choice, quite contrary. And you have a right to completely disagree with me and enjoy your flawless 18 Surface devices.