Forgetting to Be the Underdog

fatclue_98

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That's my point--it's neither and both. People have certain expectations of high-end phones, and specs are one of those things, fairly or unfairly.
I'm claiming people buy based on specs, but not because of some intrinsic value of the specs, but because it makes a phone "high-end." So you can yell at people all they want about WP7 being "fluid" or not needing specs, or whatever, but the fact is that specs, whether they are functional or not, are a selling point that validates peoples' choices. So my point isn't really about specs so much as it is "high end."

Good design helps a lot, but it's also not necessary--the Galaxy SIII has sold 9 million just in pre-orders outside the US. It's not particularly attractive. So why has Samsung sold more phones in pre-order than WP7 has in the last year? Because it's an object of desire, and part of that is specs, part of that is design, but it appears that specs are in some way intrinsic to that decision-making process. Even Apple has to play this game--advertised their A5X chips? Who the **** knows what an A5X chip is? But they have to do it, because Android is pummeling the living crap out of them with specs, and they know it.

I think you're right--it's sort of an incoherent position, but consumers are a crazy lot! What I'm arguing, in a nutshell, is that specs matter not functionally but aesthetically. People here can say that's stupid, or that people are sheep, but it doesn't matter, that's how people have been conditioned to make decisions. Apple succeeds in part because it's a superior platform, but also because they've successfully cultivated consumer desire. Windows Phone just hasn't done that.

They were also probably too late to the game. The Galaxy SIII announcements today are kind of astounding--Samsung basically told the carriers to f*ck off and take their phones without messing with them as they normally do. They were able to pull an Apple on the carriers. That's either going to galvanize carriers to increase WP7 support as a counterweight, or the carriers are acquiescing to a duopoly. Either way, the GS3 announcement this morning seems to indicate a change in the US mobile landscape.
"That's my point--it's neither and both".

Yogi, go back to the Aflac commercials.
 

bigkevbosky

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That's my point--it's neither and both. People have certain expectations of high-end phones, and specs are one of those things, fairly or unfairly.
I'm claiming people buy based on specs, but not because of some intrinsic value of the specs, but because it makes a phone "high-end." So you can yell at people all they want about WP7 being "fluid" or not needing specs, or whatever, but the fact is that specs, whether they are functional or not, are a selling point that validates peoples' choices. So my point isn't really about specs so much as it is "high end."

I chuckle every time I see you post the word "people". No, "people" don't have expectations of high-end phones. Only a small percentage of "people" do - and those people are SUCH a small percentage, they are almost insignificant - except that they usually have the loudest voices and complain the most. So - I ask you, the expert - you think if specs and high end sold phones, that Microsoft wouldn't have gone after that market at the start? Explain why, with all their BILLIONS in the bank, and some of the smartest people in tech, Microsoft is clearly going after mid-range and low-end markets with WP7? They just REDUCED the minimum amount of ram to run WP7 - why?

What "people" really want is a phone that works. They don't care if it has a quad core or quantupile core chip. They want it to work smoothly and do what they ask it to do. A small percentage of those people want specs. Try bragging about your high spec'd phone to an average person, they'll laugh at you. Have you ever heard an Android person talking in public about what custom rom he's currently running on his phone? Sounds kinda stupid "in real life", huh? Those are the "people" you think phone manufacturers should be catering to.

Good design helps a lot, but it's also not necessary--the Galaxy SIII has sold 9 million just in pre-orders outside the US. It's not particularly attractive. So why has Samsung sold more phones in pre-order than WP7 has in the last year? Because it's an object of desire, and part of that is specs, part of that is design, but it appears that specs are in some way intrinsic to that decision-making process. Even Apple has to play this game--advertised their A5X chips? Who the **** knows what an A5X chip is? But they have to do it, because Android is pummeling the living crap out of them with specs, and they know it.

So go look at Samsung's press conference. How much of it was devoted to specs? Very little. MOST of it was devoted to how the device connected with the user, how it could see your eyes and wake the screen up automatically, how you could put your palm on the screen to pause music, how you could beam information between two GSIII phones. They bragged about how it was "like nature" and how it was "designed for humans". THAT is their marketing message. NOT - "oh hey we got 2 GB of ram in here!".

You're right in that manufacturers will mention specs - for the media and tech savvy people. But Apple doesn't focus on it, because they know its the EXPERIENCE that matters - same thing with Samsung - same thing with WP7. Samsung is pushing the experience aspect of the GSIII, and the custom applications that will make life easier. They are NOT pushing the specs. The spec race is dying, and every smart person who follows this industry knows it.

Android IS pummeling the living crap out of everyone with specs - but Apple is pummeling the living crap out of everyone with MONEY. And money is what this whole thing is about. Apple didn't use specs to win people, they used a cool factor, and they used a fluid/cohesive experience. And they made it FUN to use their products. That's why they've won up to this point, and that's what Microsoft is trying to emulate with WP7.

I think you're right--it's sort of an incoherent position, but consumers are a crazy lot! What I'm arguing, in a nutshell, is that specs matter not functionally but aesthetically. People here can say that's stupid, or that people are sheep, but it doesn't matter, that's how people have been conditioned to make decisions. Apple succeeds in part because it's a superior platform, but also because they've successfully cultivated consumer desire. Windows Phone just hasn't done that.

Windows Phone hasn't had a "sexy" device until the Lumia. I mean, sure, the Titan and Focus S and such were nice, but they didn't differentiate themselves simply by running a different OS. The Lumia, like you've said, is a low spec'd device, but the design and low price point has captured an audience that may not have paid much attention. The audience that has bought in to WP7 with the Lumia doesn't care about specs at all, they care about design and low cost.

What I think you're arguing is, if John Doe goes into a store and sees a GSIII with 2GB ram and a 1.5 ghz quad core processor, and then sees a Lumia with a 1.4 ghz single core processor and 512 MB ram, he's going to AUTOMATICALLY choose the GSIII based solely on specs. And my argument is, unless John Doe is a tech savvy person (which maybe 1 in 4 people really are), he's not going to do that. He's going to go with something he's familiar with, something that is at the right price point, and something that looks good and runs smoothly.
 

Mio_Ray

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People are buying what they are told to be good. Tech-Site has some responsibility in this too! Earlier the first two things that was mentioned in reviews where screen size and processor speed.

To my surprise, today I read a review of the Lumia 900, which was just released here, and I dont recall the processor speed even being mentioned. I'm sure it was though, but it was not emphasised and pointed out as a problem. On the contrary it was praised to the skies, especially for a formidable oper ating system.! Said to take on SGSIII & IP4S. So the clockcycle race does seem to have cooled down a bit, at least here in DK.

Sent from my Lumia 800 using Board Express
 

fatclue_98

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You do a better job of proving the validity of RWE's quote than anyone here by continuing to troll this forum. Congratulations.
I've been out of the classroom for 30+ years, but wasn't it Twain who posited "It's better to stay quiet and let others think you're an idiot than to open your mouth thereby removing all doubt"?
 

eric12341

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I chuckle every time I see you post the word "people". No, "people" don't have expectations of high-end phones. Only a small percentage of "people" do - and those people are SUCH a small percentage, they are almost insignificant - except that they usually have the loudest voices and complain the most. So - I ask you, the expert - you think if specs and high end sold phones, that Microsoft wouldn't have gone after that market at the start? Explain why, with all their BILLIONS in the bank, and some of the smartest people in tech, Microsoft is clearly going after mid-range and low-end markets with WP7? They just REDUCED the minimum amount of ram to run WP7 - why?

What "people" really want is a phone that works. They don't care if it has a quad core or quantupile core chip. They want it to work smoothly and do what they ask it to do. A small percentage of those people want specs. Try bragging about your high spec'd phone to an average person, they'll laugh at you. Have you ever heard an Android person talking in public about what custom rom he's currently running on his phone? Sounds kinda stupid "in real life", huh? Those are the "people" you think phone manufacturers should be catering to.



So go look at Samsung's press conference. How much of it was devoted to specs? Very little. MOST of it was devoted to how the device connected with the user, how it could see your eyes and wake the screen up automatically, how you could put your palm on the screen to pause music, how you could beam information between two GSIII phones. They bragged about how it was "like nature" and how it was "designed for humans". THAT is their marketing message. NOT - "oh hey we got 2 GB of ram in here!".

You're right in that manufacturers will mention specs - for the media and tech savvy people. But Apple doesn't focus on it, because they know its the EXPERIENCE that matters - same thing with Samsung - same thing with WP7. Samsung is pushing the experience aspect of the GSIII, and the custom applications that will make life easier. They are NOT pushing the specs. The spec race is dying, and every smart person who follows this industry knows it.

Android IS pummeling the living crap out of everyone with specs - but Apple is pummeling the living crap out of everyone with MONEY. And money is what this whole thing is about. Apple didn't use specs to win people, they used a cool factor, and they used a fluid/cohesive experience. And they made it FUN to use their products. That's why they've won up to this point, and that's what Microsoft is trying to emulate with WP7.



Windows Phone hasn't had a "sexy" device until the Lumia. I mean, sure, the Titan and Focus S and such were nice, but they didn't differentiate themselves simply by running a different OS. The Lumia, like you've said, is a low spec'd device, but the design and low price point has captured an audience that may not have paid much attention. The audience that has bought in to WP7 with the Lumia doesn't care about specs at all, they care about design and low cost.

What I think you're arguing is, if John Doe goes into a store and sees a GSIII with 2GB ram and a 1.5 ghz quad core processor, and then sees a Lumia with a 1.4 ghz single core processor and 512 MB ram, he's going to AUTOMATICALLY choose the GSIII based solely on specs. And my argument is, unless John Doe is a tech savvy person (which maybe 1 in 4 people really are), he's not going to do that. He's going to go with something he's familiar with, something that is at the right price point, and something that looks good and runs smoothly.

This is my point exactly but I had too many things going on over the weekend to put it together. Also does anyone think the release of the GS3 less than a year from the launch of the GS2 is totally ridiculous? Watch the GS4 launch this fall or next winter.
 

scottcraft

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This is my point exactly but I had too many things going on over the weekend to put it together. Also does anyone think the release of the GS3 less than a year from the launch of the GS2 is totally ridiculous? Watch the GS4 launch this fall or next winter.

With the sales record of the GS2 and the amount of preorders for the GS3 it's really hard to argue with what Samsung's doing. Samsung has come a long way since the first Galaxy S.
 

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