Google Should Be Afraid.

[Wide opeN]

Microsoft has a better ecosystem; hands down. There is no comparison. However, most people don't seem to care. They want the device that all their friends have, such as the Galaxy S4. They see that it has a ton of features, good hardware specs, and supports all the latest apps (excluding iTunes and FaceTime), works well with their Gmail account, and is also recommended by the sales rep so that is the phone they buy. They also think of Windows Phone as inferior to Android simply because they disliked Microsoft's dominance in the PC market or had problems with their computers running Windows so they figure why buy a phone that is going to crash like their computer does and these apps that are being advertised wherever you go (Download our app) whether it be a store, restaurant, or whatever and many times there is only an iPhone and Android version. Sure, the major apps are pretty much all on Windows Phone but many of them are a version or two behind their iOS or Android counterparts.
Those of us who have more technical knowledge and care about the integration and understand the stability and ease of use of Windows Phone and Windows 8.1, and don't hold any grudge against Microsoft are going to prefer Windows phones and tablets. What can be done about everyone else?

Like another poster elsewhere said, Microsoft will slowly wear down the resistance to its UI and the masses will assimilate.

From what I can tell loosely speaking, WP is really popular with young woman right now (of which I'm not), seemingly the 23-35 crowd, at least from a few I've seen in the wild.

I think 2014, will be the year WP gains MAJOR traction, watch...

 

[pappy53]

actually, i can guarantee you that google is very afraid. Why? Because it's not just about wp8. It's the whole ecosystem. Let me explain: My dad came over for christmas and showed off his new dell venue 8 pro. Very nice, and setup to mirror his desktop. Think about this for a second...it's getting to the point where someone can take their desktop and apps from their pc to their tablet, and be on the go. When wp8 merges with rt, and can then do nearly the same (the exception being the desktop apps), you can get access to everything, anywhere, at any time. Add services like bing, outlook.com (easily superior to gmail), onenote, and other such things, and you can see where ms is going.

So here is why google is afraid. If you get to the point where you can either choose an android tablet and phone, with little connectivity between the two, or you can choose, for around the same price, a more powerful x86 tablet that runs full windows, that mirrors your desktop, and you can add your phone to it as well...that's where it gets to the point of - who needs google? It's blackberry all over again. That is why google is trying so hard to push chromebooks. If they don't they risk becoming unimportant in about 2 or 3 more years. Having seen chromebooks in action, i don't think it's going to help them.

I agree with the author of this thread, as android is convoluted. I deal with it on my touchpad and it drives me nuts. The whole methodology is a mess. The only place where i can stand android is on tablets like the nooks we have where the interface makes it more bearable, but only slightly. Even there...who needs a nook or fire when you can get a win8 x86 tablet with nook and kindle apps and have both? windows phone is going to be the final piece of the puzzle, and it's ease of use, and low cost devices (520/521) are going to drive it past ios, and start competing with android until the merging is done. Then it's going to be a quick decline for android.

You're not really serious, are you? Surpass iOS, and compete with Google? LOL!!:grin:

 

[bsayegh]

Yeah, WP isn't going to be overtaking iOS and Android any time soon. The iOS market is pretty much an installed base of people who wont by anything else. They would purchase the next iPhone without ever seeing it or knowing anything about it. WP would probably start eating in to Androids market first, but even that would take forever. Maybe 5 years from now WP will be in second place or something, or it might not even exist anymore.

 

[Paul May]

Yeah, WP isn't going to be overtaking iOS and Android any time soon. The iOS market is pretty much an installed base of people who wont by anything else. They would purchase the next iPhone without ever seeing it or knowing anything about it. WP would probably start eating in to Androids market first, but even that would take forever. Maybe 5 years from now WP will be in second place or something, or it might not even exist anymore.

WP has already started taking chunks out of both markets. Just look at all the people here that post and say they switched from iOS. It may not be huge chunks yet but if WP can bring in a few a time it will eventually make a big difference. MS has always been a long haul type of company. WP will be no different, slow and steady wins the race so to speak.

 

[Bahamen]

So, is an official Office app available for Android tablets and phones or for iOS devices (one that does not need a paid 365 account)? I'm sure Google would be willing to build one if MS gave them all the APIs and possibly source code needed to write such an app for Android, that approximated the capabilities of those on WinRT or WP. So is MS afraid of Android, are they trying to suffocate the Android ecosystem?

So Microsoft was willing to develop a YT app at its own cost. Google benefits from ad dollars without even lifting a finger. You are asking Microsoft to give the API or source code to Google, what's in it for Microsoft? Put ads into Word/Excel for Android?

 

[Paul May]

I manage IT for a large digital advertising agency. Youtube ad views typically cost $0.03-$0.15 (lower in APAC) and have a typical view-through rate of 10-15%. That means assuming 5 million YT users on WP, global, per month at an average CPV of $0.06, the revenue would be between 30,000-45,000 USD per month. That's sofa money at this level.

Sofa change or not, profit is profit especially when MS was willing to foot the bill for making the app.

 

[tgp]

WP has already started taking chunks out of both markets.

WP is getting most of its growth from first time smartphone users. Android's market share is still going up along with WP. iPhone's market share is dropping, but absolute numbers are still rising. Actually if you're talking absolute numbers WP has the smallest growth of the three. The percentage is the largest though since the numbers are so small.

 

[ThinkFast81]

One day Nokia was the leader of all smart phone market and now there are growing with Microsoft support to achieve the lead again, well done Microsoft

 

[ndowens]

Yeah I am also loving this phone. I have the Nokia 520. Only problem I have had is importing contacts. For some reason some peoples numbers wouldn't appear even though it does on my old Android

Sent from my RM-915_nam_usa_228 using Tapatalk

 

[Paul May]

WP is getting most of its growth from first time smartphone users. Android's market share is still going up along with WP. iPhone's market share is dropping, but absolute numbers are still rising. Actually if you're talking absolute numbers WP has the smallest growth of the three. The percentage is the largest though since the numbers are so small.

I believe this is ultimately a good thing just as Apple got a lot of its users from first time smartphone users when the original iPhone launched. Most users will find iOS and Android fairly unintuitive after experiencing WP. My wife was the same when her phone broke and had to be sent for repair. She used a backup iPhone and hated every minute of it. I did too because all I heard was her ******** about it.
My point being that although the numbers MS are drawing from iOS and Android are smaller chunks there are still people converting, this will grow. The post I was responding to said the iOS users would buy the next iPhone without ever seeing it. I think this may have been the case a few years ago but I don't feel like it is as much the case anymore.

 

[tgp]

I believe this is ultimately a good thing just as Apple got a lot of its users from first time smartphone users when the original iPhone launched. Most users will find iOS and Android fairly unintuitive after experiencing WP. My wife was the same when her phone broke and had to be sent for repair. She used a backup iPhone and hated every minute of it. I did too because all I heard was her ******** about it.
My point being that although the numbers MS are drawing from iOS and Android are smaller chunks there are still people converting, this will grow. The post I was responding to said the iOS users would buy the next iPhone without ever seeing it. I think this may have been the case a few years ago but I don't feel like it is as much the case anymore.

From what I've seen the iPhone fans are similar to BlackBerrys'. They're quite passionate, more so than WP or Android fans. But I agree that seems to be changing. Looking at personal acquaintances, family, and friends that use smartphones, I'd say the iPhone users are also the least knowledgeable. But then, they can be that way. iPhone is simple and quite capable. WP is simple and intuitive on the surface, but it's not as capable as Android & iPhone. To do more you must dig in and figure it out, often via workarounds. Hopefully this problem will alleviate with 8.1, 9, and whatever follows.

 

[Reflexx]

I think 2014 will see significant growth for both Windows 8 and Windows Phone. By the end of the year I expect Windows Phone to be over 10% even in the US. The main growth will continue to be from first time smartphone users.

2015 is the big year though. That is when most of the resistance will be gone because people will be used to Windows 8 already. It's no longer going to be this new clunky thing. People will understand it. The app store size difference between WP, Android, and Apple will be minimal. There will be better unification between the stores for Windows 8/RT, Windows Phone, and XBOX.

It's a mistake to think that just because Apple and Google are so dominant now that they will stay dominant. Things change quickly in the mobile tech world.

 

[maclancer]

I think 2014 will see significant growth for both Windows 8 and Windows Phone. By the end of the year I expect Windows Phone to be over 10% even in the US. The main growth will continue to be from first time smartphone users.

2015 is the big year though. That is when most of the resistance will be gone because people will be used to Windows 8 already. It's no longer going to be this new clunky thing. People will understand it. The app store size difference between WP, Android, and Apple will be minimal. There will be better unification between the stores for Windows 8/RT, Windows Phone, and XBOX.

It's a mistake to think that just because Apple and Google are so dominant now that they will stay dominant. Things change quickly in the mobile tech world.

i hope is true and google start developing apps for the platform. They are really immature and trying to ignore WP users, in a hate relationship with Microsoft

 

[bilzkh]

After trashing Google with Scroogled (Playstore mainly) , Google did a nice job by not supporting Windows Phone.
Its a classic tit-for-tat.
Apple dropped Google maps and google in favor of Apple maps and bing (siri) and taught a nice lesson to Google for screwing with Apple which is huge loss to Google.

That's what happens when one company pokes another company.

Good on Google for striking its own customers for the sake of 'responding' to Microsoft. Look, the reality of Scroogled was Microsoft bashing Google the company. The reality of denying WP apps for YouTube, Maps, etc. is Google sticking the finger to Google users.

Google has every right to respond to Microsoft with a campaign of its own, call it "the NSA ring" or whatever, completely fair. But if Google needs to respond to Microsoft by basically casting customers away, that's fear. So, stop denying the reality, and stop feeling obliged to defend this company.

Let Google defend itself, let's see real actions. Thus far we've seen Google respond by attacking customers, clearly they don't have much faith in their own merits. Though I hand it to them for having such a religiously devoted crowd, you'd need to one to help justify absurdity.

Will Microsoft release full Office functionality to Android ? No ? Google also won't release any of their apps to WP.
If Microsoft want to keep things exclusive , let them play this game.

Here's the reality: Microsoft released Office Mobile, Skype, SkyDrive, Outlook, Xbox Music, OneNote and even a couple of games on Android. Given how a number of Microsoft's own enterprise users (of Office 365) are using Android and iOS, it's likely (so as to maintain Office 365 subscriptions) that we will see a proper Office suite for Android.

That said, why are you snidely ignoring the fact that Microsoft released about half a dozen solid apps on Android yet Google refuses to let a YouTube app happen on WP? Does the reality hurt so much that you have to keep pulling in Office? For heaven's sake Android got phone based RDP and better Skype functionality before Windows Phone... that's like Google building the best possible YouTube app for Windows Phone, oh wait...

As great as Google looks in your self-fabricated ideals, it's afraid. Just look at its actions, as simple as that.

You mean like how Microsoft is afraid of chromebooks that they started a campaign hiring actors ? Nope.

I never claimed Microsoft was not afraid of Chromebooks. Sure they are, so? At least we can all admit it, it's the reality. But the Scroogled campaign is a hit against Google and its products, not users. If it truly was we'd see Microsoft pull its stuff on Android, or at least deprecate them.

Now please ask Google to answer for itself about Windows Phone, I don't need to hear it from Google Apologists. I need to see it from Google itself.

Thanks!

Sure - MS has the necessary technical chops and information to build an app for Android - do you think that if the tables were turned and WP had 80% market share with Android at 4%, they would do the same. Unlikely. It's a big investment and there's simply no ROI. If what you say us right and MS loves their users so much, where is my MS Excel for Linux? Why is Excel on my MBP so much worse than on Windows? I don't hate MS at all, just that I view these decisions as a business would, from a pure profitability/ROI perspective. Just like MS did when they realised that it's hurting them not to support the platform on which 80% of the world's smartphones run. I don't applaud them for that, I just see that it was a rational decision.

The facts as they are today it is we see Excel on Android and not Docs on Windows Phone. The facts as they are today all point towards this fact, so let's stick within what is and not what would or could. If you think ROI is driving Google's decisions then please explain YouTube on the 3DS or random Smart TVs or even Xbox One for that matter. There are some products which aren't threats and there are those that are threats, the only hurt I'm seeing is people being unable to accept that Almighty Google considers Windows Phone a genuine (and fear-warranted) threat. It's as simple as that.

How will I NOT make it an issue of WP's HTML5 capabilities when that is clearly the issue?! My logic is this: There is a public API, MS did not use it. Why? Because WP is incapable of doing so. Otherwise, why would MS reverse-engineer and use Youtube's private APIs? To try and drum up public support and sympathy? All those other platforms, like my WDTV Live box, have HTML5 or Flash YT players (there's a Flash API as well). The Wii's app is Flash, while the newest Samsung smart TVs have an HTML5 app. Your theory of business just being about generating revenue from WP users falls flat when you consider that it costs time and money to develop things (as a baseline, consider that the average Google engineer in the USA makes $200K/year, total cost to company including benefits etc is much higher). So to put say 10 engineers on these things (it would take a lot more than that, believe me) would cost Google more than $2 million, not counting opportunity costs. Until WP's userbase expands enough, I don't see them making an effort (just like MS doesn't make an effort for Linux support).

No the issue is Microsoft actually offered to take on the onus for a YouTube app and Google refused to accept it. The whole idea behind Microsoft developing the app is clearly an olive branch, it's Microsoft absorbing the costs of the app on its own.

Again, here are the facts:

1. Google doesn't want to be on Windows Phone. If it did it would develop apps using the platform's available tools.

2. Letting YouTube happen on Xbox One, 3DS, etc. clearly indicates that ROI and install bases aren't their concern

They simply want to keep Windows Phone users out of Google's services, and inversely, cast Google users on Windows Phone out of the Google eco-system. That isn't business, sorry, it's them reacting to fear. I would be happy if Google decided to bash Microsoft the company, but they're not, they're going after customers, and that's dirty.

Google doesn't release a Gmail app for any platform that has a capable browser. I use Gmail on my Macbook as well as my Windows 8 desktop and I don't see the need for an app when it works perfectly well from my browser. I can however integrate Gmail with the Mail app on OSX and Outlook on W8, but I don't see any need to. I also did not see any news of MS offering to pay Google to develop such apps, to 'foot the bill' as you would call it. If Belfiore or some such makes such an offer in public, my opinions will change and I will believe that Google is out to destroy WP.

Sure, ok. Again the reality of the matter is that there are Gmail apps on iOS, there are Outlook apps for iOS and Android. Apps exist for mobile platforms dude, that's just the truth and Google is denying that to Windows Phone. Microsoft's offer to build an app is clearly an act of subsidizing development, i.e. footing the bill. One way or another the onus to develop wasn't on Google, and Google refused.

I don't feel the need to defend anyone, again, just that I would like a more balanced and less rabid anti-GOOG sentiment. WP will not be a priority for anyone (including MS, c.f. Skype) until it's marketshare grows. Live with it.

In real life WP not being a priority equates to still having apps in the pipeline (e.g. Flipboard and Fitbit) OR sufficiently capable apps slotted for later updates. What Google has done is cut-off Google users on Windows Phone. It has the means to develop apps for the platform, it even has the inclination to use available tools to make apps (e.g. the Search app), so there's no barrier. Secondly, install base is not at the core of their thinking: They let 3DS, Xbox One and random Smart TVs happen, not Windows Phone when in reality Windows Phone is a bigger all round platform with more consistent users of those services. Google's excommunication is the reality here, facts are facts.

 

[ag1986]

No the issue is Microsoft actually offered to take on the onus for a YouTube app and Google refused to accept it. The whole idea behind Microsoft developing the app is clearly an olive branch, it's Microsoft absorbing the costs of the app on its own.

Again, here are the facts:

1. Google doesn't want to be on Windows Phone. If it did it would develop apps using the platform's available tools.

2. Letting YouTube happen on Xbox One, 3DS, etc. clearly indicates that ROI and install bases aren't their concern

They simply want to keep Windows Phone users out of Google's services, and inversely, cast Google users on Windows Phone out of the Google eco-system. That isn't business, sorry, it's them reacting to fear. I would be happy if Google decided to bash Microsoft the company, but they're not, they're going after customers, and that's dirty.

Please re-read my post - there is no question of Google "letting" YT happen for anything. ANYONE can build a YT app without having to take Google's permission as long as they abide by the platform's terms and conditions, i.e. use their public, freely available APIs. Which cannot be done because of WP8 deficiencies. If MS loves their customers so much, I would like to see them acknowledge this and fix the inline video defect. If Google truly was afraid, they'd go after apps like Metrotube and similar.

Google and MS are businesses, they will go where the ROI, the profits, are. For MS, they did it because 80% of smartphone users are on Android and it ran the risk of those people abandoning their services for Google, so they develop apps for that platform. The costs of developing the app are justified by the user base. For Google, this is not so. Cost of app development is going to be higher than the cost of lost users, I suppose. When that balance shifts, my secondary L920 will have official apps.

 

[ag1986]

Sofa change or not, profit is profit especially when MS was willing to foot the bill for making the app.

Revenue, not profit. For a company with ~14B a quarter, this is literally chump change. Opportunity cost would likely be higher than revenue.

MS asked Google to open up private APIs, rather than use the public APIs. If MS says hey. build the app yourself and send us a bill, that would be different.

 

[ag1986]

So Microsoft was willing to develop a YT app at its own cost. Google benefits from ad dollars without even lifting a finger. You are asking Microsoft to give the API or source code to Google, what's in it for Microsoft? Put ads into Word/Excel for Android?

MS was asking that same thing to Google, and clearly the profits would not be worth disclosing what they considered to be confidential information.

 

[Tre Lawrence]

MS asked Google to open up private APIs, rather than use the public APIs. If MS says hey. build the app yourself and send us a bill, that would be different.

Good point.

 

[Bahamen]

Revenue, not profit. For a company with ~14B a quarter, this is literally chump change. Opportunity cost would likely be higher than revenue.

MS asked Google to open up private APIs, rather than use the public APIs. If MS says hey. build the app yourself and send us a bill, that would be different.

MS did not ask Google for anything, the app was already built by MS and released to users. Google blocked access to the users.

 

[Bahamen]

MS was asking that same thing to Google, and clearly the profits would not be worth disclosing what they considered to be confidential information.

I'm not sure you are addressing the issue here? Currently MS is trying to move into a subscription model for Office, and you have already ruled that out. I see a very clear difference between this example and the Youtube issue.

Another difference apart from the business model, is that Youtube is essentially content created by the public for sharing purposes. Office is a productivity app that is proprietary to MS and nothing is to stop Google from creating something even better.

You are trying to make an issue out of technicalities but the bottom line is that MS has already created a YT app (without requiring any involvement by Google). Google is free to earn its advertising dollars at zero investment, but blocks that app in a calculated move to stifle a competing platform in fear of WP which is the title of this thread. End result - WP customers lose out thanks to the degraded experience.