Google Should Be Afraid.

[Tre Lawrence]

MS already MADE the app. At one point they basically told Google "here's the app...we made it for you...we'll even add in the Ad API if you want...just let us use it, or your release and control it." Google acted like they were going to, but didn't. As of 3Q13 WP has 30-40 million users. Will likely add another 10+ million in 4Q13. Clearly not numbers to ignore. Google actually makes the app for all of these other platforms, but refuses to do it for WP. At some point MS is going to play out Google's bluff until they have no legitimate excuse not to have an app, and MS will simply take them to court over anti-competitive behavior, assuming the EU and US don't get them first (EU already looks to be ready to hit them hard).

Why would Google actively avoid over 30 million potential customers on the fastest growing platform? Isn't iOS, by numbers, a much larger threat? Ponder that for a moment while I work up another post.

Funnily enough, if you change the app and the maker, these exact arguments were made on other MN forums. "We'll make the Netflix app for free! What? Cost of support? Server space? Developer salaries? Continued advancement?"

Dunno. I quit trying to figure out why corporations do what they do. I don't run a billion dollar corporation -- yet -- so I can't tell you why who does what. Google can be a bully when it wants to. So can the boys and gals Redmond.

What I do believe is that Google will chase the money. I believe they'd dump Android in a heartbeat if any other platform provided more potential for profit.

I believe MSFT would do similar, and in that, I find it hard to pick sides when the big boys are tussling.

Bottom line? More access to Gapps helps the platform. MSFT is responsible for making it happen, IMHO.

 

[Sanjay Chandra]

If you seriously think that Microsoft has not made this offer to Google, you are delusional.

I think MS didn't ask seriously.

 

[ag1986]

MS already MADE the app. At one point they basically told Google "here's the app...we made it for you...we'll even add in the Ad API if you want...just let us use it, or your release and control it." Google acted like they were going to, but didn't. As of 3Q13 WP has 30-40 million users. Will likely add another 10+ million in 4Q13. Clearly not numbers to ignore. Google actually makes the app for all of these other platforms, but refuses to do it for WP. At some point MS is going to play out Google's bluff until they have no legitimate excuse not to have an app, and MS will simply take them to court over anti-competitive behavior, assuming the EU and US don't get them first (EU already looks to be ready to hit them hard).

Why would Google actively avoid over 30 million potential customers on the fastest growing platform? Isn't iOS, by numbers, a much larger threat? Ponder that for a moment while I work up another post.

Google only develops the app for Android and iOS. Everything else is made by third parties (Samsung, LG, whoever) using the public HTML5 or Flash APIs.

 

[ag1986]

You have no idea what you're talking about then. Microsoft already pays for many apps that matter far less than YouTube. It has already spent the past three years trying to work with Google and even reverse engineered YouTube's private APIs. That's completely wasted time and money. $100 million was the cost of the marketing campaign for the US launch of the Lumia 900, which was pretty much a flop. $100 million would easily cover all costs for Google apps on Windows Phone indefinitely.

The bill for the creation and maintenance of Google apps would be one of the cheapest options available for Microsoft to dramatically improve Windows Phone. Google obviously isn't offering it.

Make it public, have that Shaw guy write an open letter, have Belfiore tweet it. Google will have no choice but to respond.

 

[ag1986]

Pull your head out of your US centric posterior and you will see that WP is likely going to surpass iOS during 2014 in most major markets outside of the US. It's already very close in a couple. The US is the only place likely to hold out for a long period of time. So, yes, I am quite serious. I see from you and several others a failure to truly understand the situation at hand. So let me further explain.

Let's tackle the whole Chromebook thing first. It's netbook 2.0. Netbooks took off, intially, and everyone was saying tablets had no chance, and laptops would have serious competition, and PC's were doomed. How did that work out? Exactly. Netbooks were slow and couldn't do everything a full powered laptop could do. They could, however, do everything Chromebooks can, and more. Chromebooks are a fad, and MS is using its ads to make sure the fad ends as soon as possible. Customers are going to be disappointed with these devices and they will either return them, sell them, or just allow them to collect dust in a corner. The real problem Google has is the $200 Windows 8 real deal tablets which are selling like hotcakes. Chromebooks sell because they offer functionality of a tablet with a little bit more stuff closing the gap slightly with low end laptops, and they do so for a low price. Well, now you can buy a full blown Windows 8 tablet, buy a Logitech keyboard/mouse combo, and you really have a mobile PC, one that is even more mobile, and far more powerful than a Chromebook. MS is simply doing what it can to stop the current bleeding of laptop sales by letting people know that they will regret there decision.

There are a few things you disregard that I'd like to point out.

First, the USA has always had and always will have a disproportionate effect on these issues. It's one of the few markets where iOS is dominant and yet, the great majority of apps go to iOS first and Android second. It sounds logical that considering 80% of smartphone users have Android, it'd be first, but that's clearly not true. This is because people in the US have the disposable income, network infrastructure and other things that many other places don't have. Look at India, a country of 1.3 billion people whose smartphone population outdoes the US by a considerable margin. Yet people don't actually buy apps or use the Internet on their phones that much, mainly because of infrastructure. So it's not as cut and dried as you put it.

Secondly, most app makers and companies are American and therefore will prioritise whatever is popular in America. I mean, you see that WP is doing well in e.g. Italy, but how many popular apps or games were developed by Italian companies?

About the netbooks things, you need to understand that people many times do not want or need the full capabilities of a Windows PC. For what I do with my computers, a netbook, Chromebook, Android tablet, iPad or Surface RT/2 are quite insufficient and only the Surface Pro 2 might come close (but I <3 my Macbook Air for its keyboard and touchpad). The vast majority of the population just need email, Facebook and maybe Skype. They don't need to run AutoCAD or whatever x86/x64 apps you and I want, nor do they need MS Office like I do. They just want email and whatever social networking site is the flavour of the month. Combine this with a couple of the advantages Chromebooks have - secure OS, no bloat, almost zero tech support needed - and you will see why people like my grandparents and my parents love these devices. People will not be regretting their decisions because they will never recognise the lack of functionality that Chromebooks have compared to Win8.

Also I would like to know where one can get a "$200 Windows 8 real deal tablet" that are apparently selling like hotcakes because I would immediately buy about 5000 of them for our field sales force.

edit: cheapest one on Amazon is the DV8 Pro, which is 280 and IMHO woefully underpowered.

 

[ag1986]

When people see that they can get an Android tablet or full Win8 tablet for about the same amount, and they learn that they can mirror their PC on their Win8 tablet, why would they choose Android? Only people on a very slim budget will make that choice (or those who just hat MS or love Android). Most people, who aren't totally wedded to any platform, are going to choose the tablet that runs like their PC. What do you think will happen when their phone can do that too? Google is afraid because they are at risk of being marginalized in a few years from now. Right now they are dominant and don't have to worry, but I'm talking 3-5 years from now win WP and Win8/9 will be laying waste to any Chome OS gains and starting to take a notable chunk out of Android. For MS they just need to execute their game plan and not take too long. Time, and screwing up, are really the only things they have to worry about.

You are making the assumption that most people like their PCs. They don't. For a large number, Windows and a PC are things they use at work and don't bother with otherwise, or they have some cheap $300 laptop which is not likely to cause any love for MS or Windows in their minds. These are the people who buy iPads and Android tablets.

A lot of your arguments are predicated on this repeated assumption that there will be a cheap WinRT/8 tablet for the same or comparable price to iOS/Android - I haven't been able to find one.

 

[AngryNil]

Make it public, have that Shaw guy write an open letter, have Belfiore tweet it. Google will have no choice but to respond.

On the contrary, Google has proven that it can choose inaction and the media will forget about it. Microsoft destroyed them the last time around, but Google just played it off to the media while changing nothing behind the scenes. I don't see how this would make things any better – Google can choose to do nothing yet again, and the story will eventually get spun into the app situation is artificial and Microsoft is a failing, desperate company.

 

[jeetu4444]

Guys I think Google really needs to work on its android os and make it running smooth and lag free on low end android fone. Where windows works as good as a high end windows fone. The way google creatrd a big issue with the youtube app u can see it take windows phone as a big threat to it in coming 2 to 3 years for sure. I just made the switch to windows from symbian. Now iam using nokia 1020 and note 2. Well iam thinking of getting lumiab1520 but just the apps r stopping me. I guess once more apps r in o may replace my note 2 with 1520. But I wanna as people 2 different OS makes more sense or 2 fones with same OS. Thanx guys

 

[maclancer]

Guys I think Google really needs to work on its android os and make it running smooth and lag free on low end android fone. Where windows works as good as a high end windows fone. The way google creatrd a big issue with the youtube app u can see it take windows phone as a big threat to it in coming 2 to 3 years for sure. I just made the switch to windows from symbian. Now iam using nokia 1020 and note 2. Well iam thinking of getting lumiab1520 but just the apps r stopping me. I guess once more apps r in o may replace my note 2 with 1520. But I wanna as people 2 different OS makes more sense or 2 fones with same OS. Thanx guys

I replaced my Android Sony Xperia ZL with the Lumia 1520 and yes I miss some apps but trust me, this switched was amazing great and love the fresh GUI and speed that Windows Phone 8 provide.

 

[dkediger]

You are making the assumption that most people like their PCs. They don't. For a large number, Windows and a PC are things they use at work and don't bother with otherwise, or they have some cheap $300 laptop which is not likely to cause any love for MS or Windows in their minds. These are the people who buy iPads and Android tablets.

A lot of your arguments are predicated on this repeated assumption that there will be a cheap WinRT/8 tablet for the same or comparable price to iOS/Android - I haven't been able to find one.

..........................

I don't think we're too far apart in our viewpoints, but its such a broad segment form factor and usage wise. You mentioned the DVP8, and, for business use it is underpowered....but for casual use? And compared to an iPad or Galaxy Tab? None of these devices are magic bullets that are killing the enterprise desktop/notebook without serious compromises and feature giveaway....at least in their current iterations. That means you have to double up on devices and/or services to maintain productivity. I have to chuckle at Google's Chromebook ROI calculator - on the sunk fixed costs items. That's what I dont get about the reported enterprise Chromebook numbers - I think they're largely eval and pilot purchases that might not hold up.

You also have the feature/use question as well. Instead of single, multi-function devices, when do multiple targeted devices like a Kindle Fire actually make more practical sense?

But in the end, like your field sales force, I have desktop centric sales that I would I've to be able to cut the cord. Part of the holdback is 3rd party software, part is the overall cost.

The closest I'm at right now is evaluating a couple of Lumia 2520 tablets. IF Micro/Kia could get the darn power keyboard out the door, we're close on price equity even with the device connection charge and any incremental data. Save for some 3rd party dependencies, I could do the same with iPads or Android tabs.

 

[neo158]

Nah. Samsung needs the ecosystem, and it knows it IMHO.

If Samsung left Android, someone would happily fill the void.

Problem is that to the average consumer Samsung IS Android and that won't change.

 

[Paul May]

Problem is that to the average consumer Samsung IS Android and that won't change.

Just like Nokia is Windows Phone

 

[avikusan]

This, my friend, is very true. Has Google forgotten that Chrome PC Version is a "PC" version. Google is about Application while Microsoft is about the framework. Agreed Chromebooks are nice but they are limited in functionality.

I think it is time Google realises that porting Android OS to a screen attached with a physical keyboard doesn't make it a Laptop. It just makes it a, Chromebook....

 

[neo158]

Just like Nokia is Windows Phone

Exactly, if Google loses Samsung to Windows Phone then that's it for Android. If Microsoft loses Nokia to Android then that's it for Windows Phone.

 

[Tre Lawrence]

Exactly, if Google loses Samsung to Windows Phone then that's it for Android. If Microsoft loses Nokia to Android then that's it for Windows Phone.

I disagree on both counts. I see your point, but, on the Android side, I think one of the smaller players will fill the void quite easily.

Samsung isn't with Android because it likes the OS. Tizen and bada both look pretty good. IMHO, it's with Android for the services, which equate to profit. Unless say, Tizen or WP8 provides the same, Samsung can't afford to go anywhere. HTC/LG/Sony etc would clean up the marketshare left behind.

 

[neo158]

I disagree on both counts. I see your point, but, on the Android side, I think one of the smaller players will fill the void quite easily.

Samsung isn't with Android because it likes the OS. Tizen and bada both look pretty good. IMHO, it's with Android for the services, which equate to profit. Unless say, Tizen or WP8 provides the same, Samsung can't afford to go anywhere. HTC/LG/Sony etc would clean up the marketshare left behind.

I disagree, the other players in both WP and Android have nowhere near as much influence and Nokia and Samsung have. Just look at HTC and LG, HTC have severe financial problems and LG have released phones that just haven't sold in the numbers that the GS3, GS4 and Note 3 have on the Android side, on the WP side Nokia dominates all to the point where the only phones displayed in stores are Nokia devices.

 

[nnthemperor]

I still wonder why MS cannot make its own services and shove it in Google's face. Apart from YouTube, other Google Apps I use are Google now, maps, newstand, translate, and keep. Apple booted Google maps and made theirs which even after the initial fiasco offers very good ui and 3d experience. Why can't MS revolutionize Bing maps. Why can't they build their own Bing now with all the features of Google now? And the bing translate app is a joke compared to Google's which supports pics, voice and handwriting. And a simple intuitive note taking app with the features of Google keep won't be that difficult to make I guess. An app that you can just open and take notes immediately, not one with 3 or 4 clicks before you are ready to take your notes. The added color coding will be great too.
Sorry for ranting on, but it beats my imagination what kind of goons they got working at MS that are incapable of making beautiful apps like Google and Apple. Just look at the MS reader app in Win 8 still lacks basic functionalities like changing pen color.
Consumers are about aesthetics even with reduced functionality while businesses are the opposite. MS looks like it's yet to learn that basic fact,and until it does, it'll still be playing a very tedious catchup. Google learned this fast. Initially there apps lacked aesthetics compared to Apple but they have recently stepped up their games and have really caught up with Apple and even surpassed them. Just look at the new Gmai app interface, beautiful!

Having said that, I just bought an unlocked Lumia 520 and I'm using it get in Japan ( WP is not sold here) and I really line the phone but I understand why people would be slow to adopt WP without first party Google apps as I also bought a Nexus that I'm using on another carrier.

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk

 

[BlueRaiin]

I NEVER EVER thought I'd leave Android for Windows Phone. Never. I was happy. I had hardware, root, ROMs, and great app selection. Then the I saw the Lumia 1520. I was curious. Should I give it a shot? Try the thing that I was sure tasted bad?

Friday I pulled the trigger on that 1520. Oh, its nice. Its very nice and I really like it. However, the app ecosystem leaves something to be desired (gosh I love this keyboard). As was stated earlier, the WP version of some of my favorite apps are behind their Android counterparts (gee, this screen is gorgeous). Some apps are just flat-out missing. :-( ...but I'm gonna stick with it because the hardware and interface are great.

I'm taking a bit of a risk with Windows Phone but I think its gonna be totally worth it. There's a lot to like. I don't think Google has to worry just yet. ...not for a good while.

 

[mike13ftw]

For me wp8 doesn't have something to meke me love them . Soon I will go back to android again to have google+ , to start developing roms and a lot more things . Unless Microsoft shows something impressive with wp8.1

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[BlueRaiin]

I am loyal to no platform, I'll try as many different as my playing-money allows. I'm planning to stick with this 1520 at least 90-180 days and see how things look over that time. Its a beast of a phone and WP is much nicer than I had envisioned. I'd like to see my bank and a few others create a WP app but I couldn't care less about the Google apps. I'm likely gonna have to at least spend another $250 to get an S3 mini to fill the app holes but that's okay because having a small phone too isn't all bad.