Hey Microsoft!!! Fix your Surface Book before it dies!

[Yonic Boom]

If I buy a product which costs 2000$, it is absolutely clear that it has to work the exact same way as it was advertised. Just because some of the Macbooks had problems, it doesn't mean MS can do the same as well. It was wrong to sell Macbooks with issues and it is wrong to sell the Surface Book with all of these issues as well. It's as simple as that.

Fundamentally I don't disagree, however the term "wrong" is a little loaded. I just think he should have returned the device if he wasn't satisfied with the speed his issues were being resolved.

I still think he should return the device.

 

[TMorss]

I don't think he is out of line with his view at all. I am one of the clients that Microsoft lost. I run a small business that has a fleet of Surface Pro 3's. I was very excited about the Surface Book.

After my purchase experience I decided to purchase a MacBook (the direct competitor) and I have also decided against adding the Surface Pro 4 to my fleet.

When it is time to look at replacing my fleet of 3's I am not 100% sure I will stay with them.

So yes the impression it left me with was a bad one. An impression that will cost Microsft my business in the future. I also work with many business like mine. We are known as a trend setter for how we operate in our group (20 similar companies).

So really this post is dead on. But again who am I? Just a paying client and influencer.

 

[ParoleGA]

After reading this thread and seeing all the reactions to OPs post, here are my two cents:

If I buy a product which costs 2000$, it is absolutely clear that it has to work the exact same way as it was advertised. Just because some of the Macbooks had problems, it doesn't mean MS can do the same as well. It was wrong to sell Macbooks with issues and it is wrong to sell the Surface Book with all of these issues as well. It's as simple as that.

And it is in no way any different just because one is an "early adopter"... Sure, you can not really be mad because you don't have all the extra dongles, special apps made just for the SB or whatever...because you are an early adopter and thus need to wait a bit for that kind of stuff. It is also possible that there are minor issues with software. But problems not letting the device do what it was made for? Nope... it needs to be able to be used for the purpose it was made from day one!

I buy a premium device for a reason... and having to wait/struggle with stuff like this is definitely not the one...

I thought you said you read the thread? NO ONE said it was okay because Macs have release issues too. Those were replies to people saying "should have gotten a MacBook instead", or some such silliness. As far as early adopters issues, you don't have to like it, accept it, or participate in it. It is the way of the world, and you can waste your breath arguing with the facts of life all you like. Do I wish it weren't that way? Sure. Do I wish manufacturers put more effort into working out software bugs prerelease? You bet. Do I know that it is how things work? Yes.

There are many competing considerations that determine a product's release date; from projected completion dates from the engineers, to sales pushing to get something out for the holiday season, and many others, I'm sure. And again, these problems were not with all of the units, and it is likely they didn't know what the failure rate would be (like we still don't know what it actually was). Don't forget, these early units shipped straight from the factory in China, just like my rMBP did back in 2012. Most of their testing was likely not done on full production run units, but small batch prerelease hardware.

There are a ton of things that can lead to buggy early release technology. If you don't like it, wait a month before making a purchase. Or purchase where there is a solid return policy, and shop with confidence. Taking bugs as a personal affront because you spent "2000$" (zomg) is silly. Tell people the issues you found, get your $2000 back, and go on with your life. No one slapped your mother or poisoned your dog.

 

[ShinraCorp]

Welp if there's one thing I learned about business and public relations... you'll always have more negative people than positive people talking about the good or service. Only reason is that the positive people are happy with it and don't need to go out and share with the world on how great it is. While the negatives.... well this thread kind of proves the point lol.

To put it in perspective for every 1 happy customer that says it's great you'll get 7 negative customers saying it's bad or can improve on it.

 

[JaimitoFrog]

Within a week of its release, there are at least 4-5 fixes released already. At least MS is somewhat fast to release them. Granted, it should have been cleaned up by day one of shipping.

I am glad my preorder won't ship till dec or Jan, got both i7 512gb and 1tb versions. That's enough time to smooth things up. If they are still buggy by then, I can always return it.

 

[bhtkb]

I think the thing is Apple is better at sorting(prioritize) problems or faults and fixing them, presenting the users a flawless expericnce (even if not so, as a user, you dont get too angry) . There maybe faluts on mac devices lingering for years, but their effect on damaging the brand has stayed minimal.
I think Microsoft should learn to think like a customer. You market a device as the ultimate laptop, and users buy it to see a "blue" screen in the middle of some critical work. Well, really? I believe it would be impossible to produce a flawless device, but the things that will harm the experince most should be fixed before a release, and there are things that needs to be "really" fixed like a blue-screen, i'm pretty sure they have encountered it sometime during testing. While trying to refocus your brand, do not release a device with blue-screens, browser orientation changes requiring restarts etc.
I can say the same for the software produced by Microsoft. They just dont know how to appeal to a user. Windows Phone was a very solid operating system, but it had these little things that were annoying enough to give up on using it. Maybe, Apple has more issues with their HW/SW, but accept it they just know how to deal with it.

 

[wardo5757]

I think the thing is Apple is better at sorting(prioritize) problems or faults and fixing them, presenting the users a flawless expericnce (even if not so, as a user, you dont get too angry) . There maybe faluts on mac devices lingering for years, but their effect on damaging the brand has stayed minimal.
I think Microsoft should learn to think like a customer. You market a device as the ultimate laptop, and users buy it to see a "blue" screen in the middle of some critical work. Well, really? I believe it would be impossible to produce a flawless device, but the things that will harm the experince most should be fixed before a release, and there are things that needs to be "really" fixed like a blue-screen, i'm pretty sure they have encountered it sometime during testing. While trying to refocus your brand, do not release a device with blue-screens, browser orientation changes requiring restarts etc.
I can say the same for the software produced by Microsoft. They just dont know how to appeal to a user. Windows Phone was a very solid operating system, but it had these little things that were annoying enough to give up on using it. Maybe, Apple has more issues with their HW/SW, but accept it they just know how to deal with it.

I don't think you can compare MS to Apple, ALL of my Apple products run the Beta's and even the Apple Bet's are orders of magnitude better than the complete crap MS has put out, and I don't like writing that. I have been a staunch defender of MS until they stopped producing high end mobile hardware almost 2 years ago, then I decided to use Apple as a place holder till MS came back online. That gap I'm MS's offerings was the worst opportunity they could have given me because Apple's software WORKS WELL, every damn bit of it does. Is It problem free, no, but everything works well. I didn't like W8 when it first came out and it was definitely missing features until 8.1, but it worked, W10 is pure junk. I don't know if it's drivers or the OS, but this OS release is going to hurt them, I know they are turning me off and if Apple was offering similar hardware (full OS with pen and touch), I would run from this Surface crap...

 

[Spongers8X]

The ONLY reason Apple's brand isn't hurt by their myriad of issues is because their public perception is fabricated, and well manicured. Microsoft has been working from a position below EVERY other company out there for a very long time. Mostly their fault, yes, but the point is, Apple's hardware and software issues at the VERY LEAST reach the same level as the issues currently experienced by early adopters with the SB and Windows 10.

Bendgate? Antennagate? Do you remember those? Those were VERY serious hardware issues Apple flat out denied were real issues at first, then FINALLY cave in to customer demand. Antennagate especially took them a very long time to recognize, and they actually have not fixed it on the original iPhone 5 to this date. It was a hardware problem they couldn't fix until the next generation. Yet, their image was undamaged. The biggest difference is their users seem to be used to the issues they have with their Apple products, and don't give the same leeway to any other company, Microsoft or otherwise. Period. And if you argue with this well documented phenomenon you are blind to the realities of the situation.

I still find it absolutely amazing Microsoft has already released a firmware update for some of these problems. And I agree with a previous poster that most of these issues were likely unavoidable because they were testing pre-production products. And why might you ask would they in their right mind do that? Because Apple does, and other companies must follow suit and release products as rapidly as they do, lest the be left behind, at least in the public's mind. Perception is reality, and every other company besides Apple is working from a deficit from the word go. PERIOD.

I think the thing is Apple is better at sorting(prioritize) problems or faults and fixing them, presenting the users a flawless expericnce (even if not so, as a user, you dont get too angry) . There maybe faluts on mac devices lingering for years, but their effect on damaging the brand has stayed minimal.
I think Microsoft should learn to think like a customer. You market a device as the ultimate laptop, and users buy it to see a "blue" screen in the middle of some critical work. Well, really? I believe it would be impossible to produce a flawless device, but the things that will harm the experince most should be fixed before a release, and there are things that needs to be "really" fixed like a blue-screen, i'm pretty sure they have encountered it sometime during testing. While trying to refocus your brand, do not release a device with blue-screens, browser orientation changes requiring restarts etc.
I can say the same for the software produced by Microsoft. They just dont know how to appeal to a user. Windows Phone was a very solid operating system, but it had these little things that were annoying enough to give up on using it. Maybe, Apple has more issues with their HW/SW, but accept it they just know how to deal with it.

 

[michal64]

so my experience basically mirrors what everyone is dealing with. weak battery life, video driver crashes, laptop not really going to sleep (almost melted in my backpack) , blue screen crash after un-docking the screen/tablet, etc. I actually stopped showing this laptop to other ppl.

they simply rushed this to get it out in time for Christmas shopping season. at this point i can say that physically, the design, size, cameras, are ideal to me, but software part is nowhere near ready. I work in IT, and there is no way I would recommend anyone getting this at this point.

 

[Muessig]

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[etc6849]

Dang I haven't seen a BSOD in many years. I really want one, but it has to work as flawlessly as the SP3 its replacing or I'm not buying it.

OK, a couple restarts - Again, still no flicker, no oddities. I haven't disabled Hyper-V. I am about to bravely undock the display.

Update: Undock worked. App failed. All is good after a restart.

Update 2: Had BSOD when turning off auto screen brightness. Appears to be related to keyboard key brightness? Chalk it up to a fluke driver issue.

 

[etc6849]

Does the Surface Book have the same issue as the previous Surface models have with the curved/deformed body?

I hoped MS would have this figured out by now, but the Surface Book in Best Buy I looked at had a bend similar to what's shown below.

 

[wardo5757]

The ONLY reason Apple's brand isn't hurt by their myriad of issues is because their public perception is fabricated, and well manicured. Microsoft has been working from a position below EVERY other company out there for a very long time. Mostly their fault, yes, but the point is, Apple's hardware and software issues at the VERY LEAST reach the same level as the issues currently experienced by early adopters with the SB and Windows 10.
You're right to a certain extent, the very phone that made bendgate an issue was my first iPhone. Apple did take care of it, they replaced the vast majority of them for free, except for the folks that clearly weren't taking care of their devices. And there was no fix for it with that phone until the next phone came out, furthermore, the affected devices were in the low thousands, how many millions of them were sold? My understanding is that a relatively small percentage actually bent, and the new 6 plus is tough as hell. Antennagate was the same, nothing Apple could do till the new version came out so the offered a free case, sucks, but it was another hardware problem that couldn't be fixed.
Point I want to make is NO ONE here is complaining that the hardware is horrible and MS should give up, everyone just wants there $2000+ brand new machine to work and with MS current OS, everything is buggy or broken or both, that's simply unacceptable and if Apple had a history of that sort of software release they would be cursed like dogs too.
Bendgate? Antennagate? Do you remember those? Those were VERY serious hardware issues Apple flat out denied were real issues at first, then FINALLY cave in to customer demand. Antennagate especially took them a very long time to recognize, and they actually have not fixed it on the original iPhone 5 to this date. It was a hardware problem they couldn't fix until the next generation. Yet, their image was undamaged. The biggest difference is their users seem to be used to the issues they have with their Apple products, and don't give the same leeway to any other company, Microsoft or otherwise. Period. And if you argue with this well documented phenomenon you are blind to the realities of the situation.

I still find it absolutely amazing Microsoft has already released a firmware update for some of these problems. And I agree with a previous poster that most of these issues were likely unavoidable because they were testing pre-production products. And why might you ask would they in their right mind do that? Because Apple does, and other companies must follow suit and release products as rapidly as they do, lest the be left behind, at least in the public's mind. Perception is reality, and every other company besides Apple is working from a deficit from the word go. PERIOD.

 

[Spongers8X]

I just want to re-copy what the OP originally posted, it is below. He is in fact pointing out hardware problems, and claiming hardware issues and bad QC on Microsoft's part. So in fact, people ARE complaining about their hardware. FWIW...




So, now that some of the dust has settled and users have "real life" experiences with their $1,500+ Surface Book's, we need to start complaining. The Surface Book is a very, very expensive product. For it to have SO many issues on release is more than unacceptable. Many products get released with day one patches/updates to resolve issues, but the amount of issues we're having with our Book's is a terrible first impression.

Off the top of my head, here is what I experienced or have seen others experience:

• Delays in cursor or touch response while browsing, with only the browser open.
• Screen discoloration while scrolling or just in general.
• Screen flicker.
• Screen detach mechanism not detaching.
• Screen detach not being recognized at all when initiated.
• Blue screens when detaching or reattaching the screen.
• Blue screens while using Edge.
• Blue screens for no reason.
• Bricked units from faulty firmware updates (wow.)
• Track pad having sluggish response (fixed via update for most)
• Overheating or more than normal heat due to inoperable sleep function.
• Battery drain due to inoperable sleep function.
• Edge browser
  - Randomly becomes unresponsive/slow.
  - Causes issues with the display (the screen flicker problem)
  - Eats a lot of memory for no real reason
• Using Google Chrome provides a terrible scrolling experience, even with smooth scrolling enabled. (Why does the OSX version work without any issues?)
• WiFi is randomly disconnected or unresponsive (this is incredibly annoying)
• Loud popping noise from the speakers
• Laggy/sluggish scrolling with non-native applications; Slack, Chrome, pretty much anything that isn't a Microsoft product.
• The new dock is causing issues as well

Most of these issues can be fixed with patches and updates but nothing has been released.

WHY hasn't Panos said anything about these issues? Some may say, "It JUST got released, give them time!" Well... I say with a firm stance that we spent a LOT of money and we want a product to be working or fixed, days within purchase. There was plenty of time to test this device prior to release, even if they were all packed up already and ready for use, Microsoft should have released updates to resolve these issues as a day one update/patch.

Microsoft has a lot to lose here if they don't get their act together. We all spent at the very least, $1,500. Many of us spent over $2,000. That is an insane amount of money in this day and age. A MacBook Pro is also just as expensive, before I start hearing a bunch of Apple fan boy accusations, let me make this clear. I've bought many Apple and Microsoft products on the week of release, this is the absolute WORST release I've ever seen from either camp. To have THIS many issues on a flagship device is down right embarrassing.

These issues need to be resolved NOW, not later. There are many people who are having buyers remorse and its not due to cost. It's due to a product that simply does not work as advertised. When the number one sales point of your product is tablet and laptop use, aka 2 in 1 operation, only to have it crash or not detach the screen.... that is embarrassing and shameful. How can this slip passed quality control? It's not just us here on WPCentral either. Go over to SurfaceForums and the experience is identical. For the folks who claim to have "flawless" devices... go open Facebook or any video/ad ridden website in Edge, tell me how flawless it is then?

BUT...when things are working properly, it is a fantastic experience. The screen and keyboard are gorgeous. The ability to remove the screen and use it as a tablet is awesome. The battery life IS amazing. We all know the pro's this device has, that is why we bought it. In the end, that is all we want. We do genuinely want this to succeed, we all really do. Otherwise we wouldn't have bought this insanely expensive product.

TLDR: Microsoft, fix the damn Surface Book. Buyers are going to give up before it even had a chance to shine. Release statements and or fixes NOW, not later.

 

[ytrewq]

I'm stating facts and using a very factual title.

A period is the form of punctuation one uses to express facts. An Exclamation point is the form of punctuation one uses to express emotion.

Your title = 0 periods, 3 exclamation points.

Drama queens rarely realize that they are being drama queens. They do, however, use lots of exclamation marks.

"The exclamation mark (British English) or exclamation point (American English) is a punctuation mark usually used after an interjection or exclamation to indicate strong feelings or high volume." - Wikipedia.

 

[AbsoluteZerow]

My facts were emotional. [:

 

[bhtkb]

Perception is reality, and every other company besides Apple is working from a deficit from the word go.

I acknowledge that and want to re-emphasize if you have to rebuild your brand in the public eye, you should be extra-careful to release better quality products that appeals to customers more. And yes, it is unfair in terms of an even competition.

 

[wardo5757]

My facts were emotional. [:

I agree with everything you've written about. The problems with the hardware and software (Office Apps excluded) MS has been putting out for the last 2 years are pervasive. I don't know who is in charge of quality control at Microsoft, but he and his team need to be replaced before they destroy any chance of making a come-back. If you sit back and take a look at the problem history and the mobile output, it almost seems like MS is purposely self destructing.

 

[lonewolfe2015]

Anyone experienced screen brightness automatic changes lately? It's agnostic to the settings, mine has been jumping up to max and then back down in a few seconds. Repeats every 5 minutes or so.

 

[AbsoluteZerow]

Anyone experienced screen brightness automatic changes lately? It's agnostic to the settings, mine has been jumping up to max and then back down in a few seconds. Repeats every 5 minutes or so.

I had that issue but remedied it by turning off automatic brightness. I now control it manually with Fn + Del Fn + Backspace.