IDOL 4S: A Pretty Windows Phone With VR (That You Probably Shouldn't Buy)

[Krystianpants]

I'm in the same boat as Mr. Fisher. I don't think it's correct to say we want the old days back however.

I liked WP8 for the ways in which it was different. I liked the principles the Metro UI design language was built around (how it worked, not necessarily how it looked). It definitely needed to evolve however. Increasing information density and solving the app navigation issue (two big metro UI sore spots), while remaining true to those original principles, is what I wanted MS to aim for.

Instead, W10M dropped almost everything that was unique about WP8 and became an Android Light/iOS mish mash. Efficiency and stability also suffered greatly. The ways in which W10M differentiated itself from iOS and Android are now either superficial (UI coloring) or targeted at developers (Continuum).

A UI that is specifically designed to work well on small mobile devices, where all the little ideas are more than the sum of its parts, is what we want back. Not the old days.

That's how I see it anyway.

I'm the opposite. I find that the OS has gotten better. I find that a lot of my friends from Android/Apple are more interested in it now. The problem with this unique factor is that you only capture these small amount of people who want things done a certain way. Maybe an OCD crowd or who knows.

You will get less apps if developers have to tailor UI heavily to a specific OS with absolutely no shares. What windows 10 aims to do is try and create a UI that works across all hardware paradigms. So obviously what you have on a phone may not work for the hololens, vr, PC or whatever else. And by creating this UI that can fit any paradigm is what will get more apps into your mobile store even though the shares are so tiny. The developer won't have to do much work to get it on there so it becomes a "meh, sure why not" vs. a "oh man I have to create all these pivots, oh this specific tile that links to their other tile, omg all that for 1% of the people? NO thanks, I'll just publish on xbox and pc".

The development tools do allow developers who cares to create better UI in their apps. And if Windows mobile ever gets popular more developers may take some extra time to fine tune their apps.

Now I don't mind the hamburger menu which people complain about constantly. It can be done well. I don't use 1 handed mode, that shouldn't even be an issue. Big screens sell and I rarely ever see anyone using their phone with one hand anymore. So if one handed use is the reason why you dislike a UI that's just silly. Hold your phone with 2 hands, maybe you'll drop it less.

 

[libra89]

Voice inflection and facial gestures are usually good indicators of a person not too happy with the task at hand. This is supposed to be a review and not an editorial. I agree 100% that the Windows "experience" is part and parcel of the decision to buy a Windows phone and it should be mentioned within the first paragraph or first 5 minutes of a video review. But that shouldn't take away from what the phone itself is capable of - as compared to other devices on the platform. For example, the iPhone 7 did away with headphone jacks. But you can still buy the iPhone 6S and have the same iOS experience. No iPhone in creation has external storage but that shouldn't be a con against the iPhone 7 per se, it's a pervasive omission by Apple.

This review, at face value, makes it look like these issues are common only to the Alcatel. As a one time Journalism major, I find this unacceptable. Not because I'm enamored with this particular phone or Windows Mobile in general. I have this Alcatel, a BlackBerry Passport, an iPad Air, an Android phone, a PalmOS PDA, Mac OS X desktop and Windows laptops. I'm a free agent who loves all tech. There is no such thing as one size fits all, it's what each system brings to the table for whatever you need and bloggers posing as journalists are not getting that message across.

You and @a5cent have excellent points. To be fair, his iPhone 7 review had a lot of people "mad" (that's a nice way for me to put it, but eh) at iMore, but I agreed with it. To me, the reviews (this one and that one) are similar in how they pointed out the cons.

Maybe I'm less biased, I don't know, but I'm reading the responses the same way to this review as I did over there, and my mind can't help but group them together.

 

[garisa]

Now I don't mind the hamburger menu which people complain about constantly. It can be done well. I don't use 1 handed mode, that shouldn't even be an issue. Big screens sell and I rarely ever see anyone using their phone with one hand anymore. So if one handed use is the reason why you dislike a UI that's just silly. Hold your phone with 2 hands, maybe you'll drop it less.

You should not say "hey, just hey used to using the phone with two hands". Au many people use it with one hand, and if Microsoft doesn't make it easy to use the phone with one hand, no problem, people will change the platform. Don't worry.

I myself always use it with one hand. I'm fine with hamburger menu, and I get reach out easily with one-handed mode. Still they should make it even better - I should be able to swipe from left to open the menu. I could so it on Android...

Your way if thinking is wrong, we don't have to adopt to Microsoft as long as there are alternatives.

And to add, I like Windows Mobile, and I hope they are going to make it easier for developers to implement swipe from left to open the menu. Though maybe it's easy already, I don't know... I know it's way better when I don't have to use both hands to use the phone, and then I can easily open this hamburger menu with one swipe.

I do not want to use the phone with two hands, and I will always choose only those phones on which I can work by one hand.

Sent from mTalk on Windows 10 phone

 

[argenys]

You should not say "hey, just hey used to using the phone with two hands". Au many people use it with one hand, and if Microsoft doesn't make it easy to use the phone with one hand, no problem, people will change the platform. Don't worry.

I myself always use it with one hand. I'm fine with hamburger menu, and I get reach out easily with one-handed mode. Still they should make it even better - I should be able to swipe from left to open the menu. I could so it on Android...

Your way if thinking is wrong, we don't have to adopt to Microsoft as long as there are alternatives.

And to add, I like Windows Mobile, and I hope they are going to make it easier for developers to implement swipe from left to open the menu. Though maybe it's easy already, I don't know... I know it's way better when I don't have to use both hands to use the phone, and then I can easily open this hamburger menu with one swipe.

I do not want to use the phone with two hands, and I will always choose only those phones on which I can work by one hand.

Sent from mTalk on Windows 10 phone

You can already swipe to get to the menu on Windows. Try it. Not all apps have been coded for this but many have. Try Groove and the Store as a quick example. And your point of people leaving because of the hamburger menu is ludicrous. All platforms have it now. And I know so many that this year after so many saying they don't want to have a big phone finally saying **** it I want a bigger phone. Seems like it's the trend. No doubt there will always be people who want a small phone but the trend is undeniable. I though for a while it was a forced trend. But I've seen too many people change really hard opinions on this not just its not for me but using strong language as to why they'll never go big yet now they are. I think it's seeping into the subconscious of people and maybe there is also some envy after a while since phone are becoming more and more entertainment devices and primary devices. You want to read Internet comfortable or watch your videos with more pleasure. I get what your point is I'm just saying there is an undeniable trend for the whole market.

 

[fatclue_98]

You should not say "hey, just hey used to using the phone with two hands". Au many people use it with one hand, and if Microsoft doesn't make it easy to use the phone with one hand, no problem, people will change the platform. Don't worry.

I myself always use it with one hand. I'm fine with hamburger menu, and I get reach out easily with one-handed mode. Still they should make it even better - I should be able to swipe from left to open the menu. I could so it on Android...

Your way if thinking is wrong, we don't have to adopt to Microsoft as long as there are alternatives.

And to add, I like Windows Mobile, and I hope they are going to make it easier for developers to implement swipe from left to open the menu. Though maybe it's easy already, I don't know... I know it's way better when I don't have to use both hands to use the phone, and then I can easily open this hamburger menu with one swipe.

I do not want to use the phone with two hands, and I will always choose only those phones on which I can work by one hand.

Sent from mTalk on Windows 10 phone

Dude, it depends on the phone. I have large meathooks and I need 2 hands on a 1520 but not on this Idol. Windows Phone used to be very unique with its UI until people started to tell Microsoft to "implement swipe from left to open the menu" and other Android-esque features. Just like the recent US elections, the people have spoken and now it's time to just grin and bear it. Careful what you wish for, you might just get it.

Sent from Alcatel Idol 4S with Windows via mTalk

 

[garisa]

You can already swipe to get to the menu on Windows. Try it. Not all apps have been coded for this but many have. Try Groove and the Store as a quick example. And your point of people leaving because of the hamburger menu is ludicrous. All platforms have it now. And I know so many that this year after so many saying they don't want to have a big phone finally saying **** it I want a bigger phone. Seems like it's the trend. No doubt there will always be people who want a small phone but the trend is undeniable. I though for a while it was a forced trend. But I've seen too many people change really hard opinions on this not just its not for me but using strong language as to why they'll never go big yet now they are. I think it's seeping into the subconscious of people and maybe there is also some envy after a while since phone are becoming more and more entertainment devices and primary devices. You want to read Internet comfortable or watch your videos with more pleasure. I get what your point is I'm just saying there is an undeniable trend for the whole market.

I agree with all you said, but only i think that most if apps actually don't have this swipe from left to open the hamburger menu. I think that Store doesn't have it, while you are correct about Groove.

Also, i don't think of course that anyone is leaving because of hamburger it anything like that. I wouldn't even say that they are leaving, it's just that they don't have much choice today. There are so little Windows phones available today.

Dude, it depends on the phone. I have large meathooks and I need 2 hands on a 1520 but not on this Idol. Windows Phone used to be very unique with its UI until people started to tell Microsoft to "implement swipe from left to open the menu" and other Android-esque features. Just like the recent US elections, the people have spoken and now it's time to just grin and bear it. Careful what you wish for, you might just get it.

Sent from Alcatel Idol 4S with Windows via mTalk

Well it's not me who was asking for hamburger menus at all, but since they have it to us they should make it easier for us to use them. I mean it seams that you want us to have one feature less just so we could be unique...

I agree with you, I would like to see Windows Mobile unique, but the fact is that now we have this hamburger menu which is harder to reach, and we didn't have this issue before. I guess that they introduced these hamburger menus because of UWP...

Also, they will want to attract Android users and iPhone users at some moment, so they have to make it easier for those users which are yet to come to adopt to their new OS. I guess that's why they decided not to insist on some unique features.

Oh, and just don't get a wrong impression about me, I like Windows Mobile, and I don't want to move to any other OS any time soon.

Sent from mTalk on Windows 10 phone

 

[fatclue_98]

"Also, they will want to attract Android users and iPhone users at some moment, so they have to make it easier for those users which are yet to come to adopt to their new OS. I guess that's why they decided not to insist on some unique features."

It's that very attitude that caused us to get cheeseburgers instead of the wonderful pivots we used to have. And no, it wasn't UWP that brought this cluster. WP8.1 Denim was the beginning of the end.


Sent from Alcatel Idol 4S with Windows via mTalk

 

[garisa]

That ain't my attitude, sir. I'm just saying it...

Sent from mTalk on Windows 10 phone

 

[Krystianpants]

You should not say "hey, just hey used to using the phone with two hands". Au many people use it with one hand, and if Microsoft doesn't make it easy to use the phone with one hand, no problem, people will change the platform. Don't worry.

I myself always use it with one hand. I'm fine with hamburger menu, and I get reach out easily with one-handed mode. Still they should make it even better - I should be able to swipe from left to open the menu. I could so it on Android...

Your way if thinking is wrong, we don't have to adopt to Microsoft as long as there are alternatives.

And to add, I like Windows Mobile, and I hope they are going to make it easier for developers to implement swipe from left to open the menu. Though maybe it's easy already, I don't know... I know it's way better when I don't have to use both hands to use the phone, and then I can easily open this hamburger menu with one swipe.

I do not want to use the phone with two hands, and I will always choose only those phones on which I can work by one hand.

Sent from mTalk on Windows 10 phone

I agree that swiping for the menu is definitely not a mobile specific thing so it should be implemented. Any touch device even a 2-in-1 will take advantage of it. Many apps already support it. I know Readit does which I use daily. But just the controversy is that the hamburger menu makes it like every other OS. The whole argument that older windows versions did it better. The issue again is that developers should be aiming to satisfy the touch crowd with 2-in-1's but anything like a specific mobile UI is going to likely happen only once shares go up. And yes you have alternatives but these people often complain that it is becoming too much like the alternatives.

Well honestly there should be some standards for applications to make the developers lives a bit easier. Imagine 10 different OS's all unique.

Now where Microsoft can make a unique selling point is some new method of interaction that would allow 1 handed mode to work way better. Whether it be eye tracking or anything else they can think of. They patented a ring with the right sensors it could read all sorts of gestures for usage. The OS should make developers lives easier if you want them to enjoy a platform. Do it through innovation instead of making them work harder.

 

[fatclue_98]

^^ I'm a firm believer in swipe gestures. I'm the most diehard webOS fan in existence and that's where I fell in love with gestures. BlackBerry OS10 continued the trend and made some improvements. I agree that reaching for a menu button anywhere on a touchscreen is counterintuitive but the mobile industry decided to follow Apple instead of blazing a new trail. Well, Palm tried but the lack of apps killed the only real iPhone threat in the early days. Microsoft won't be doing anything remotely similar because they want our phones to look and feel just like our PCs. C'est la vie.

 

[garisa]

Microsoft won't be doing anything remotely similar because they want our phones to look and feel just like our PCs. C'est la vie.

And this is why I think w will not get rid of hamburger menu. And I think it is actually needed on 2in1's, laptops, PC's, etc... Because many users will use those UWP apps with a mouse.

And generally, I like the idea of having similar stuff on different devices. That is why this hamburger doesn't bother me much in Mobile, and just today I was thinking how they did it well in Windows 10. When you resize the window, but it adopts instead. For example - when you type your email in Outlook app in full screen, and then switch to half screen...

Also, if somebody has a mouse and a large phone and a keyboard they could use it with the phone in some ocasion, and then having hamburger turned out to be a good thing.

So, I don't see why should anybody bother with hamburger menu as long as we have an alternative - to swipe from right to open the menu. And if I had to choose between hamburger and swipe from left, I would give my vote for hamburger cause that serves both of us, while it would be lame it you would have to swipe from left with your mouse...

Sent from mTalk on Windows 10 phone