If I disable most of Google's privacy settings on Android - is the big G still spying?

[PerfectReign]

Circling back to this....

The best way to ensure Google isn't spying is to root your phone and install a custom ROM such as CyanogenMod or it's successor, LineageOS.

https://lineageos.org/

The only catch is you can't load GApps, which are needed for the Play Store, if you want to stay out of Google's watching eye. Of course without GApps you have to side load all your APK files.

Sent from mTalk on my HP Elite X3

 

[Guytronic]

Gee...
I wonder what the US government, Yahoo, Microsoft, my car or any credit rating service is doing with my volunteered data.

 

[CrockettGTO]

Spying is probably not the right term since technically, the user must agree to the Google TOS to use an Android phone, basically granting permission.

 

[RumoredNow]

Gee...
I wonder what the US government, Yahoo, Microsoft, my car or any credit rating service is doing with my volunteered data.

Most are happy eating a sausage, few care to see how it is made...

 

[Wolfjt]

Spying is probably not the right term since technically, the user must agree to the Google TOS to use an Android phone, basically granting permission.

You are correct, spying is completely the wrong word. If people are fearful of data being collected then just go to Apple. Cyanogen Mod is one way to go, but you will miss out on all the good Google services. Maps being the main one. If you have Facebook or Twitter then your data is already being collected. In fact, Facebook will know more about you than Google will. Anyone who thinks you'll be anonymous by not using Google is fooling themselves.

 

[a5cent]

Spying is probably not the right term since technically, the user
must agree to the Google TOS to use an Android phone, basically granting permission.

You are correct, spying is completely the wrong word.

Legally, I agree. It's not the right term. If we sign a contract allowing a stalker to follow us around 24/7, even into our homes, that's not spying either...technically. But in terms of conveying to the masses what is going on, I think it's exactly the right word.

I bet even on this site most people are completely unaware of exactly what data is being sent back to google and when. It occurs in a very abstract way, unobtrusively, and at any time. Almost nobody knows what information Google derives from that data. If information about your behavior is being sent back to Google without you being consciously aware of it at the time, then how is "spying" not the most fitting word?

If I knew of a similar word that conveyed the same meaning with the connotation of it occurring willingly, I'd prefer that word, but I'm not aware of such a word.

If you're a lawyer, then you obviously can't use the word. Agree. If you're not a lawyer, I question your motivations for not wanting to speak plainly.

If you have Facebook or Twitter then your data is already being collected. In fact, Facebook will know more about you than Google will. Anyone who thinks you'll be anonymous by not using Google is fooling themselves.

Ummm... Yes. How does that make any of this good?

You could just as well say that since 10 people are kicking you, we might as well not care about any of them. Why even care that two are kicking harder than the others (Google and Facebook).

Lastly, hopefully nobody on this site is actually so stupid as to think they'll be anonymous if they don't use Google. This isn't a "black or white" issue.

 

[a5cent]

Gee...
I wonder what the US government, Yahoo, Microsoft, my car or any credit rating service is doing with my volunteered data.

Just something to think about...

Why would you volunteer data to anyone if you don't know what they are doing with it?

 

[Wolfjt]

Legally, I agree. It's not the right term. If we sign a contract allowing a stalker to follow us around 24/7, even into our homes, that's not spying either...technically. But in terms of conveying to the masses what is going on, I think it's exactly the right word.

I bet even on this site most people are completely unaware of exactly what data is being sent back to google and when. It occurs in a very abstract way, unobtrusively, and at any time. Almost nobody knows what information Google derives from that data. If information about your behavior is being sent back to Google without you being consciously aware of it at the time, then how is "spying" not the most fitting word?

If I knew of a similar word that conveyed the same meaning with the connotation of it occurring willingly, I'd prefer that word, but I'm not aware of such a word.

If you're a lawyer, then you obviously can't use the word. Agree. If you're not a lawyer, I question your motivations for not wanting to speak plainly.



Ummm... Yes. How does that make any of this good?

You could just as well say that since 10 people are kicking you, we might as well not care about any of them. Why even care that two are kicking harder than the others (Google and Facebook).

Lastly, hopefully nobody on this site is actually so stupid as to think they'll be anonymous if they don't use Google. This isn't a "black or white" issue.

Absolutely it's not black and white and this is a great topic to discuss. We're being tracked via Amazon, and in brick and motor stores to collect our buying habits. Stores are tracking your through your BT to track pathes people take throughout the store, dwell times in front of certain end caps and the whole like. If you download their app they will get even more data from you. But, they will throw you discounts as well. So we have to decide what we will allow compared to what we benefit from such tracking.

 

[xandros9]

Most are happy eating a sausage, few care to see how it is made...

Maybe Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle" can use a modern reboot! "The Concrete Jungle"

 

[tgp]

Why would you volunteer data to anyone if you don't know what they are doing with it?

Don't we know what Google is doing with our data? That's why we don't like it. We know little about what the other data-collecting companies are doing with it. Like what they're doing or not, Google is very open about it.

Just to play devil's advocate, is the reason we're targeting Google here is because they're open about what they do? We tend to believe that Microsoft and Apple and other companies do much less with our data. However, maybe they're just keeping us in the dark. We'd be freaked out if we knew what credit card companies, mobile carriers, and retailers are doing with our data.

Disclaimer: I'm not saying this is what's happening or even that I believe it's what's happening. I don't know what all is happening. But...

Just something to think about...

 

[a5cent]

Absolutely it's not black and white and this is a great topic to discuss. We're being tracked via Amazon, and in brick and motor stores to collect our buying habits. Stores are tracking your through your BT to track pathes people take throughout the store, dwell times in front of certain end caps and the whole like. If you download their app they will get even more data from you. But, they will throw you discounts as well. So we have to decide what we will allow compared to what we benefit from such tracking.

No disagreements here.

Although I do think it's worth pointing out that stores evaluate how the public responds/reacts to different approaches of marketing and sales, but they typically have no idea who those 8000 people whom they tracked were. This occurs anonymously (as you said, as long as we don't install their app and give it all the permissions it requests). That doesn't bother me at all.

That's quite different from how advertising funded online services work, where the whole point is to tie everything they discern to a known identity.

 

[Guytronic]

Just something to think about...

Why would you volunteer data to anyone if you don't know what they are doing with it?

What online services say they do with your data and where it ends up will always be a risk.

It's difficult to use services without informational input.
Growing older has caused us to go online more and more.
I use Yahoo to help keep crap away from my Comcast accounts.
I interact with the US government to pay taxes, recieve health, SS and pay benefits.
I reluctantly use MS services for things...on and on.

Seems to me it's virtually impossible to tell anyone anything anywhere without them dropping fingers onto a terminal while asking for your information.

If you're connected then you will have to volunteer info to participate.

 

[nate0]

True that they aren't spying to give your data away to some third party. False that they aren't spying to try and use your data to make money from advertisers that they shove at you.

I don't want to be an ad sponge. I also don't want Google/Alphabet milking my activities for their own profit with the only benefit to me being that I pay $ for entry to begin with. Sure Android is "free" on paper but just having the code doesn't get you anything but some lines of code. You have to pay for the hardware and network to run it on.


I'll start a club. People pay me to join and I'll have someone follow them around so I can sell their anonymized activities to whomever wants to buy them and get super rich doing it. Sounds great, don't it?

There's a very good reason this gets asked about regularly that has nothing to do with paranoia. It's called not wanting to feel used and degraded into a commodity. Too many people just shrug their shoulders and accept it as "there's really no getting around it." For others it really sticks in their craw.

Yes, these companies are all mining data. But how and why is important; as is what they do with the resultant info. So let's nip the "But (insert X) tracks your data too" straw man argument in the bud. We aren't discussing anyone except Google in here.

I think you need a different outlook on things, so we clearly agree to disagree. You think I should just bend over and smile as they shove it in and I say no way, Jose.

Hence the green robot.

 

[a5cent]

Don't we know what Google is doing with our data? That's why we don't like it. We know little about what the other data-collecting companies are doing with it. Like what they're doing or not, Google is very open about it.

Just to play devil's advocate, is the reason we're targeting Google here is because they're open about what they do? We tend to believe that Microsoft and Apple and other companies do much less with our data. However, maybe they're just keeping us in the dark. We'd be freaked out if we knew what credit card companies, mobile carriers, and retailers are doing with our data.

Disclaimer: I'm not saying this is what's happening or even that I believe it's what's happening. I don't know what all is happening. But...

Just read the companies ToS...carefully. Google grants themselves the most freedom to do with your data what they want. It seems to me others eventually "catch up", but Google is the entity who continues to most aggressively broaden those powers. That makes a lot of sense, since targeting adds is really their only notable source of income. It's where Google focuses most of their resources... Android is small potatoes in comparison.

That's not to say the others are so much better. They aren't. But they are definitely not all the same.

In regard to knowing what Google does with our data:

I don't know a single person who actually knows what Google does with our data. If you think you do then you're likely ignoring the most important part of their operations.

Most people have only a very vague idea of what information Google is collecting, but as mentioned in an earlier post, that data is just the raw material. That's not at all what is actually valuable.

What does have value is the myriad ways in which Google combines data from different sources to accurately derive a profile of who you are and of how much value you are to various industries.

You may be aware of the criminal profilers TV occasionally glamorizes. Google is doing the same thing on a mass scale, for everyone, not just criminals. The result of that process is what's actually valuable and I can guarantee that it has very little resemblance to the raw data it is based on.

I once worked on a software project in the telecommunications industry that had similar goals. This was over 15 years ago in an industry where this sort of thing wasn't even part of the core business. Even then it amazed people what can be discerned from very simple and seemingly innocent data collection operations. Google today is certainly far more advanced then we were then.

Have you ever read or heard anything about what sort of information is contained in such a behavioral profile? Probably not... if not, then you have no idea what Google is doing with our data. I doubt any of us do.

I suspect that if Google was ever forced to make those profiles public (which will only happen over their dead body), their popularity would instantly plummet.

I think we can throw Facebook in the same boat. They are probably no better. There may be others as well, but it doesn't matter how many there are. There being more of them doesn't make it any better. It's worse.

 

[tgp]

I think we can throw Facebook in the same boat. They are probably no better. There may be others as well, but it doesn't matter how many there are. There being more of them doesn't make it any better. It's worse.

Hey I don't disagree with you here. But I think it's hypocritical to call out Google and justify using Microsoft for example when they all do it. But I suppose that makes sense here since this is a Microsoft fan site. Our view is slanted.

"Selling" your data isn't all bad. If I can profit by selling something I have, I'll do it if the price is right. Don't we sell our time to our employers? Don't we take surveys for a chance to win something? Don't we click ToS, and never read them, every time we download and install something?

 

[a5cent]

Seems to me it's virtually impossible to tell anyone anything anywhere without them dropping fingers onto a terminal while asking for your information.

If you're connected then you will have to volunteer info to participate.

If you're filing taxes, sure. You can't do that without providing financial information. That information is also directly related to the job the tax-man must do. There are plenty of other examples like that. However, that's completely different from companies that target advertising, where more information is always better. Period.

The excuse companies typically give for their mass data collection operations is to "improve the user experience". Ironically, there is absolutely no technical reason Google must collect that data and process it themselves to improve our user experiences. Every last bit of it could be done locally on the device, [edit] where only the final results are sent back home [/edit]. There is also no technical reason we couldn't own our own behavioral profiles. Android would encrypt it, upload it to wherever, and all your Android devices would sync with it. Finished.

If this was really just about providing a good user experience, that is exactly how this would work, since storing, processing, and managing this data is a major cost factor (billions) for Google.

The reason we must volunteer this much information to participate is because the overwhelming majority just doesn't care. If the majority just accepts it, then there is no reason for it to change. It's not that we don't have a choice. The majority have just chosen (likely unconsciously) to forgo that choice.

 

[a5cent]

Hey I don't disagree with you here. But I think it's hypocritical to call out Google and justify using Microsoft for example when they all do it. But I suppose that makes sense here since this is a Microsoft fan site. Our view is slanted.

"Selling" your data isn't all bad. If I can profit by selling something I have, I'll do it if the price is right. Don't we sell our time to our employers? Don't we take surveys for a chance to win something? Don't we click ToS, and never read them, every time we download and install something?

Hey, if there is something I hate it's hypocrisy.

I don't think it's hypocritical at all. It would be if these companies data mining operations were actually all comparable. As I attempted to point out in my previous post, they are not. You may disagree with me there, but given my point of view it's definitely not hypocritical.

Of all the corporations with big data mining operations, Google is the hardest do avoid. IMHO that's also fair justification to single them out. Facebook can easily be avoided. I actually don't give a rats behind about Facebook's services. Avoiding Google is much much harder. IMHO YouTube has attained a position that makes it almost as essential as water or electricity. I can't think of any other company in the same business that is comparable... again.. fair.. not hypocritical.

It sounds to me like you're asserting all these companies collect data on users, and then stop. Just because they all collect data doesn't make them all the same though.

IMHO you're making it far too easy to brush off an idea you disagree with by claiming bias.

 

[tgp]

I don't think it's hypocritical at all. It would be if these companies data mining operations were actually all comparable. As I attempted to point out in my previous post, they are not. You may disagree with me there, but given my point of view it's definitely not hypocritical.

We have no idea if they are all equal. What we do know is that Google is the most open with what they're doing. We know much less about what the others are doing.

If I were like you and cared about what the data mining companies were doing with my data, I would be much more concerned about the lack of transparency from the others. Hence my belief that what we read on fan forums like this one is bias.

 

[Laura Knotek]

Read the fine print: Terms of service, privacy policies and the power of knowledge https://www.androidcentral.com/read-the-fine-print

 

[a5cent]

We have no idea if they are all equal.

Except we do. The ToS are different, the data they allow themselves to collect is different, and the number of sources they use and combine are different, not to mention that their main business models are entirely different.

I have no idea how you can claim not to know weather they are all equal. They simply aren't. Again, that doesn't mean MS or anyone else is so much better, but they certainly aren't equal.