Just got my lumia 950 xl, love WP 10! Why is WP having a hard time?

[nasznjoka]

Look, you've got whatever rights to express yourself here as the owners of the forum give you, just like everybody else. I'm not disputing that. However, "Poor word of mouth" is one parameter you can control.

So, when people make generic statements like people here do, then that word of mouth gets around. There is absolutely zero benefit in that to you or anyone else on W10M. Zero.

Secondly, the perception of issues with the OS is just that, perception. Whether or not it's founded in a real problem is something we could evaluate, but the way things are in contemporary discourse that doesn't appear too interesting compared to just whining about things not working. For example; some here complained about the OS because taking a picture with the included camera app was too slow. Well, the person was taking HDR photos, and by design those take time to process. But it was all worded as an issue with the software or the phone. In truth it's very simple: The phone is capable of taking great pictures using HDR, but at some processing expense which equals time. Turn that off and you get the speed you want. But just complaining about it wouldn't have gotten that person anywhere. Yet that's exactly what a lot of people will see - just the complaint, and neither the reason behind the operation or the alternative.

And there are several issues like that. People here will complain about the OS being unstable, yet not disclose they're running a pre-release version. If a release version isn't working then fine, that's a valid complaint. But when users imply that the release version has an issue when it fact it does not it just spreads negativity for absolutely no good reason.

So I hope you understand what my point is. I'm just a bit tired of all the complaints and misrepresentations of the OS.


PS: The above isn't personal.

I think he's one of the very few positive contributors to this thread.... Most of us here are driven by fanboysim when they comment they don't wanna see the real issues instead they comment on general issues like marketing, carrier exclusivity etc... The OS is not that smooth it's like android 2. When you've the OS not reliable can't do this can't do that before it reboots those are real issues that he pointed out and you don't wanna see it then you guys are the main cause of the downfall... You saw issues and pretended like it's nothing now there you go... Reading the forum posts on win 10 mobile will let you know that many many users are having the same issues reboots etc etc.... The os is unstable... Going over at android central's introductions threads you'll notice lots of windows phone converts these days and one of the issues chasing them is the OS instability not the apps cause they've been without them for a long time and didn't jump the ship

 

[mattiasnyc]

Most of us here are driven by fanboysim when they comment they don't wanna see the real issues instead they comment on general issues like marketing, carrier exclusivity etc... The OS is not that smooth it's like android 2.

I went from Android to W10M and W10M was far smoother. I keep telling you (people) that there's a huge difference between there being a problem with an OS and there being a problem with a phone. I can't in good faith say that W10M is an overall smoother OS than Android simply because I had that experience, because I would be comparing an old phone with a new phone. The comparison would be unfair. And so at any point someone has an issue in order to move forward towards a solution one has to figure out if the issue is the phone or the software or the OS.

When you've the OS not reliable can't do this can't do that before it reboots

You don't listen. I keep telling you I've had zero reboots of my phone, except for when a new version of the OS was installed. Either the people that have these reboots have issues with their hardware, or they have some software installed that isn't working properly. It makes little sense that people would have all these reboots yet a bunch of us have zero. If the OS was the issue we should all be seeing them when using our devices similarly.

those are real issues that he pointed out and you don't wanna see it then you guys are the main cause of the downfall...

What the heck are you talking about I "don't wanna see it"??? I see what he's saying, and I see what people are saying, and I believe them when they say that the phone rebooted when they tried to take a picture. What I DON'T believe is that it's a problem with the operating system. Because if it was, why aren't far fewer of us not getting reboots on our phones when we're taking photos? It's totally possible that these people have issues with anything from bad or incompatible memory card or batteries or have plain broken phones.

And I have in fact seen several posts by users who switched batteries and got a phone that suddenly performed properly (or at least the issues they had disappeared). So this would indicate that in those cases the issue was the battery, the hardware, not the OS. And even if that's bad and annoying, at least the Lumia batteries aren't exploding!

So don't tell me I don't want to see the problems people are talking about, I see them, but there's a rational way to evaluate what the problem is caused by.

Reading the forum posts on win 10 mobile will let you know that many many users are having the same issues reboots etc etc.... The os is unstable... Going over at android central's introductions threads you'll notice lots of windows phone converts these days and one of the issues chasing them is the OS instability not the apps cause they've been without them for a long time and didn't jump the ship

Whatever. I typed in "reboot" in the first forum I found for Android, and here are the thread headlines I find:

Lg G5 can't connect to wifi
Dragon Touch pad. Screen is locked up
How do I unfreeze my LG X Power phone?
Note4 crashing/rebooting seems widespread
Deadly laggy, slow, S7 Edge
The Samsung Galaxy S8 has a random reboot problem and nobody knows why.
How do I reset Fingerprint scanner and alternate password that have stopped working?
LG G3 randomly reboots/turns off
Anyone Own a Note 4 that Doesn't Crash/Reboot?
Mobile Data Not Working
Samsung Pay Randomly Opening
Why wont my phone connect to my wifi
Holidays on Calendar not showing
why does my tablet reboots continuously automatically
So yet another bug
Odd bug - My phone can't receive incoming texts/calls
Stuck in Power Savings mode, keyboard doesn't come up to enter password!
S5 with lot of issues
Samsung S3 stuck in Samsung Galaxy S3 GT-I9300 Logo
Auto Reboot Again And Again
Settings menu won't scroll up

Those thread headlines were all in threads that were posted in between now and the 28th, and only halfway down the page on Search Results - Android Forums at AndroidCentral.com

So, are all those problems signs that Android has issues? Or are those issues somehow different? When the Android's reboot it's not the OS. When W10M phones reboot it is the OS? And then there's all the rest that isn't reboot related. And phones catching fire and exploding.

People love to whine about things and far fewer people post just to say "good job" or "I'm really happy about this". So, proportionally you'll see a ton of whining on any platform because that's how people are; whiney and irrational. But that doesn't make what people say absolutely true.

PS: More google search results on "android forum "random reboot" "itself""

 

[Drael646464]

I went from Android to W10M and W10M was far smoother. I keep telling you (people) that there's a huge difference between there being a problem with an OS and there being a problem with a phone. I can't in good faith say that W10M is an overall smoother OS than Android simply because I had that experience, because I would be comparing an old phone with a new phone. The comparison would be unfair. And so at any point someone has an issue in order to move forward towards a solution one has to figure out if the issue is the phone or the software or the OS.

Actually it stands to reason that windows 10 mobile is smoother/faster. Subjectivity aside.

Android maintains a bunch of running services, and it keeps a number of programs in ram, to emulate real time multi-tasking. Windows 10 mobile keep very little running, from my understanding, and tends to just freeze apps rather than keep them in RAM.

This is why windows 10 mobile has always run a bit better on lower levels of RAM (for example the 650 with 1gb of ram performs similarly to an android midrange with 2gb of ram).

You can see a lot of discussion around this online historically, especially back when phones had more like 256kb of ram, when the difference was quite stark, especially due to android ram management being not quite as good as it is now (although such a thing can never be perfect, and recent phones have had performance issues due to cache settings being imbalanced).

It also may be what expands battery life, that win mobile users talk about.

Its all quite logical, its to do with what software people call "the stack". Android has a more complex stack that keeps more things running. Windows 10 mobile just throws that stuff to cache, and freezes the app, like a hibernation mode.

Of course this does have some disadvantages as well (in terms of, less things have the ability to run in the background, less similar to real time multi-tasking), but it would make it quite surprising to me if android ran faster/smoother on identical hardware, given that apps and services logically use up more ram.

I mean logically, how could an OS that runs more background tasks, run faster than an OS than runs less? It doesn't really make sense.

Although probably the point that you are making is that someone observing android as "faster" isn't doing so on comparable hardware but comparing their new android, with their old windows phone. Which is a fair point.

Worst case scenario for comparison would be an old phone, with older specs, not shipped for, or designed or tested for with windows 10 mobile, compared to a new android phone that shipped with its current android revision.

 

[Drael646464]

I think he's one of the very few positive contributors to this thread.... Most of us here are driven by fanboysim when they comment they don't wanna see the real issues instead they comment on general issues like marketing, carrier exclusivity etc... The OS is not that smooth it's like android 2. When you've the OS not reliable can't do this can't do that before it reboots those are real issues that he pointed out and you don't wanna see it then you guys are the main cause of the downfall... You saw issues and pretended like it's nothing now there you go... Reading the forum posts on win 10 mobile will let you know that many many users are having the same issues reboots etc etc.... The os is unstable... Going over at android central's introductions threads you'll notice lots of windows phone converts these days and one of the issues chasing them is the OS instability not the apps cause they've been without them for a long time and didn't jump the ship

Unstable on hardware designed for the windows 10 OS, on phones that shipped with it? Or unstable on devices that were not designed, and were not shipped with it? Check out people having issues with new android revisions on old hardware. Or people just having issues in general with android.

In general software run on systems it was never tested on or designed for, has problems. You see this everywhere, whether its ios, osx, android, or windows 10, or windows 10 mobile. You can see this even running software on an uncommon android soc.

There is no OS, mobile or desktop, without stability issues. What you have to work out, is does your experience generalise, to the greater population? And that's a matter for statistics, not observation/anecdote.

While your experience may have been poor, it might not be a generalizable experience.

Unfortunately I cannot see any stats for that comparing windows 10 mobile, android and ios, all I can really conclude, is that android is slightly more stable than ios.

If you can find any stats regarding recent windows revisions versus recent android revisions, i'd find that interesting, but if they exist they are not easy to find. In the absence of hard data, really its a matter of he said she said, and it doesn't amount to much.

 

[technogeek019]

Unstable on hardware designed for the windows 10 OS, on phones that shipped with it? Or unstable on devices that were not designed, and were not shipped with it? Check out people having issues with new android revisions on old hardware. Or people just having issues in general with android.

In general software run on systems it was never tested on or designed for, has problems. You see this everywhere, whether its ios, osx, android, or windows 10, or windows 10 mobile. You can see this even running software on an uncommon android soc.

There is no OS, mobile or desktop, without stability issues. What you have to work out, is does your experience generalise, to the greater population? And that's a matter for statistics, not observation/anecdote.

While your experience may have been poor, it might not be a generalizable experience.

Unfortunately I cannot see any stats for that comparing windows 10 mobile, android and ios, all I can really conclude, is that android is slightly more stable than ios.

If you can find any stats regarding recent windows revisions versus recent android revisions, i'd find that interesting, but if they exist they are not easy to find. In the absence of hard data, really its a matter of he said she said, and it doesn't amount to much.

I do agree with pretty much most of what you have said, All OS's generally have its own share of stability issues especially when updating to the latest revision, however in the case of windows phone I do believe that this issue is a little more problematic when compared to other OS's.

Let me explain myself a little better.

Android has a huge market share compared to WP, a few thousand people having stability issues on their phones is not really enough to rattle the ecosystem. Considering the fragmented state of android skins, most often problems with the phone would be attributed to the skin, since there are plenty of hardware from various manufacturers for the user to switch to, so the OS itself does not get as much slack.

Its also important to understand that while WP users are used to the app gap that we are all so familiar with, Android users on the other hand may find a much more difficult time to deal with this. While we may argue about Microsoft's plan for windows phone and the eventual phasing out of the app based system, As of now apps matter a lot to those users hence considering WP's poor reputation for app selection among users of other smartphone OS's its highly unlikely that can pose a serious threat at its current state.

Moving to IOS is also not a very appealing option to most of them, as IOS is exclusive to iphones that are very expensive and IOS is more closed off then android hence not having as much appeal. The idea of having to sync one's entire music collection with itunes is enough for most android users to avoid the platform.

On the other hand, WP users have long stuck with the platform despite the declining support, poor app selection (whether you care about it or not), poor hardware choices (quantity over quality ??). It also helps to understand that one of the famed plus points of having a WP in the good ole days is the promise of updates.

Like I have previously stated Win10 only has a realistic chance being a decent player in the smartphone market, if existing users still use it (Do remember that WP8/8.1 did make solid market gains). The update system allows for the market share of the new revision to increase without inconveniencing users with having to buy a new phone.

Win10 needs to have a decent market if developer/OEM interest is to be maintained, hence this is why Win10 needs all the market share gains it can possibly get, what better way to gain market share then to allow existing users with phones that can properly run Win10 to update to the operating system.

Provided that the update runs smoothly enough and that they can get hooked to the features of the new OS, Its a given that the Win10 can continue to seem a viable alternative. If the update does not run as well then that may just be enough of reason for that user to jump to a different OS.

Hence its important that especially in the case of WP/Win10, that updates run well enough for users to convinced to not jump to a different OS.

Is this a case of double standards?

Yes it is, but this is unavoidable considering the present state of the OS.

 

[fatclue_98]

Moly x1?

US. I don't think the Moly made it to these shores.

 

[Drael646464]

US. I don't think the Moly made it to these shores.

Well you can buy em on amazon, not sure if you'd count that

 

[Drael646464]

I do agree with pretty much most of what you have said, All OS's generally have its own share of stability issues especially when updating to the latest revision, however in the case of windows phone I do believe that this issue is a little more problematic when compared to other OS's.

Let me explain myself a little better.

Android has a huge market share compared to WP, a few thousand people having stability issues on their phones is not really enough to rattle the ecosystem. Considering the fragmented state of android skins, most often problems with the phone would be attributed to the skin, since there are plenty of hardware from various manufacturers for the user to switch to, so the OS itself does not get as much slack.

Its also important to understand that while WP users are used to the app gap that we are all so familiar with, Android users on the other hand may find a much more difficult time to deal with this. While we may argue about Microsoft's plan for windows phone and the eventual phasing out of the app based system, As of now apps matter a lot to those users hence considering WP's poor reputation for app selection among users of other smartphone OS's its highly unlikely that can pose a serious threat at its current state.

Moving to IOS is also not a very appealing option to most of them, as IOS is exclusive to iphones that are very expensive and IOS is more closed off then android hence not having as much appeal. The idea of having to sync one's entire music collection with itunes is enough for most android users to avoid the platform.

On the other hand, WP users have long stuck with the platform despite the declining support, poor app selection (whether you care about it or not), poor hardware choices (quantity over quality ??). It also helps to understand that one of the famed plus points of having a WP in the good ole days is the promise of updates.

Like I have previously stated Win10 only has a realistic chance being a decent player in the smartphone market, if existing users still use it (Do remember that WP8/8.1 did make solid market gains). The update system allows for the market share of the new revision to increase without inconveniencing users with having to buy a new phone.

Win10 needs to have a decent market if developer/OEM interest is to be maintained, hence this is why Win10 needs all the market share gains it can possibly get, what better way to gain market share then to allow existing users with phones that can properly run Win10 to update to the operating system.

Provided that the update runs smoothly enough and that they can get hooked to the features of the new OS, Its a given that the Win10 can continue to seem a viable alternative. If the update does not run as well then that may just be enough of reason for that user to jump to a different OS.

Hence its important that especially in the case of WP/Win10, that updates run well enough for users to convinced to not jump to a different OS.

Is this a case of double standards?

Yes it is, but this is unavoidable considering the present state of the OS.

Probably fair. I mean not fair to hold windows 10 mobile to higher standard of support and stability than other OSes, but I guess inevitable given the dropping of nokia and its impact on marketshare, and thus mobile specific apps.

I think though, if cshell and Cortana skills api come to mobile soon, which I think they will, those are the sorts of features which people attracted to Win10M will come back for if they left, or upgrade for, if they are on an old device.

 

[Ferid Qelenderli]

Hi. I want to but Lumia 950 too, should I?

 

[Drael646464]

Hi. I want to but Lumia 950 too, should I?

If you feel uncertain, we are expecting some announcements from MS over the next two weeks (spring education event, and build).

I would however, its a great phone, great camera, and the OS is getting updates (big ones I'm looking forward to are cshell and Cortana skills api).

As for you, make sure you don't depend on any niche apps. WM has the big ones, but lacks the numbers versus android, app wise. If you are comfortable with that, and want that deeper MS intergration across devices, continuum , like the tiles UI, I'd say go for it.

 

[Ferid Qelenderli]

Thank you for your reply. I am using Lumia 930 for now and I know about apps and it doesn`t bother me. I wanted to wait for Surface phone, but sadly Lumia 930 is out of Windows creator update

 

[Drael646464]

Thank you for your reply. I am using Lumia 930 for now and I know about apps and it doesn`t bother me. I wanted to wait for Surface phone, but sadly Lumia 930 is out of Windows creator update

Honestly I think if its out of the creators update, it was probably too buggy on it to bother with.

Surface phone if it comes, I supremely doubt will be this year. If you are lucky, next year. MS is focusing on its stronger markets this year, such as tablets and notebooks (which in the long run is a strategy that should help them be back into the mobile game stronger, if it promotes UWP apps and helps unify the platform etc). We'll definitely see some notebooks, hybrids/tablets from them, because of that, running windows s (Cloud) and windows on arm. But phones I very much doubt.

If HP does a second phone the first one might come down in price, but in terms of new hardware we are all kinda waiting with baited breath to see who steps up.

 

[technogeek019]

Probably fair. I mean not fair to hold windows 10 mobile to higher standard of support and stability than other OSes, but I guess inevitable given the dropping of nokia and its impact on marketshare, and thus mobile specific apps.

I think though, if cshell and Cortana skills api come to mobile soon, which I think they will, those are the sorts of features which people attracted to Win10M will come back for if they left, or upgrade for, if they are on an old device.

Cshell and Cortana skills api are exciting in the sense that they will allow greater functionality for the OS to do some really cool things, however only time can tell whether would developers integrate them into the applications,

While Cshell would definitely be used by microsoft to get closer to the one windows model, on the other hand the success of the cortana skills api to the overall plan of win10 can only be realized if developers support it.

Prior experiences tells me to not keep my hopes high. I remember when WP8.1 brought the ability for the live tiles to be transparent so that backgrounds can be set to it, I also remember the numerous apps that did not use this feature (Are there any improvements in win10 regarding this??).

Sure enough an aesthetic feature cannot be compared with an api that could change Win10, but it always helps to be cautious.

 

[Drael646464]

Cshell and Cortana skills api are exciting in the sense that they will allow greater functionality for the OS to do some really cool things, however only time can tell whether would developers integrate them into the applications,

While Cshell would definitely be used by microsoft to get closer to the one windows model, on the other hand the success of the cortana skills api to the overall plan of win10 can only be realized if developers support it.

Prior experiences tells me to not keep my hopes high. I remember when WP8.1 brought the ability for the live tiles to be transparent so that backgrounds can be set to it, I also remember the numerous apps that did not use this feature (Are there any improvements in win10 regarding this??).

Sure enough an aesthetic feature cannot be compared with an api that could change Win10, but it always helps to be cautious.

There will be some people onboard with the skills api (as I understand it, there are a few partners already, like foursquare and some hotel booking service), but it's hard to tell if it'll be as successful as alexa skills (or more?). Then again bots are easier to code, and there are many more windows devices than fireOS ones, so from a developer perspective it should have some appeal. It's a promising potential but your right we'll have to see how developers receive it. Really they need to release the invoke at the same time.

There is one strong benefit - loads of coders are already using Microsoft bot framework, and there's a few decent ones in skype already (microsofts ones, and a few extras). That and being able to convert alexa skills (although I have no idea how easy that is)....I think it must have _some_ success.

I think cshell and Cortana api both could be things that attract consumers.

They may wish to release cshell and NEON at the same time, given they are both visual/ui orientated. NEON is beautiful and we know how people like shiny and new.

Probably it'll be with redstone 3, if I think about it. Because they may wish UWAs to gather a little more steam first (like get office in place, the new Spotify app, the extra momentum given by windows s), so that they can truly sell it as "a pc in your pocket".

It'll also pair well with windows on arm for smaller tablets, which will probably be released late this year, or early next year.

It all to some degree depends on tweaks to the UWP, and the perception of UWP by developers. Although there's 10,000 apps on chromeOS, and that is not a particularly popular platform, so maybe windows s, and the option to lock devices to the store will also help.

 

[manjitrupbikram brahma]

If they had the hardware, windows phones would still have had a substantial market share......till whatever they plan to bring out next.

 

[slivy58]

If they had the hardware, windows phones would still have had a substantial market share......till whatever they plan to bring out next.

Not so sure about that, hardware is only part of it. To obtain success you need the "whole" package (hardware/OS/apps/support/etc) and I feel they failed to deliver on many fronts. Even if they came out with something now or shortly down the road, the perception of the past will haunt them for years, as will proof of their commitment... I have little hope for it's future myself. :unhappy:

 

[anon(50597)]

Not so sure about that, hardware is only part of it. To obtain success you need the "whole" package (hardware/OS/apps/support/etc) and I feel they failed to deliver on many fronts. Even if they came out with something now or shortly down the road, the perception of the past will haunt them for years, as will proof of their commitment... I have little hope for it's future myself. :unhappy:

I'm afraid you're right. It doesn't take long to damage your reputation, but it takes years to regain it. BlackBerry is another example.

Sent from mTalk on my SP4

 

[slivy58]

I'm afraid you're right. It doesn't take long to damage your reputation, but it takes years to regain it. BlackBerry is another example.

Sent from mTalk on my SP4

Been there done that with BB, the very reason I left in 2012 and haven't looked back... Yet

 

[anon(50597)]

Been there done that with BB, the very reason I left in 2012 and haven't looked back... Yet

Yup, me too. Once I saw it had no chance (BB10) I moved on.

Sent from mTalk on my SP4

 

[Drael646464]

Not so sure about that, hardware is only part of it. To obtain success you need the "whole" package (hardware/OS/apps/support/etc) and I feel they failed to deliver on many fronts. Even if they came out with something now or shortly down the road, the perception of the past will haunt them for years, as will proof of their commitment... I have little hope for it's future myself. :unhappy:

To damage ones reputation, one needs a reputation. I doubt most people are aware windows 10 mobile even exists.