Just got my lumia 950 xl, love WP 10! Why is WP having a hard time?

[HoosierDaddy]

Just switched from android to to Windows Mobile 10 with a nice Lumia 950 xl. I'm going to be blunt, I can't see why Windows phone is having any problems at all. The OS is great. Windows Mobile 10 is amazing. Easy, fast, feeling like Windows on my PC. I kinda can't see why its not doing so good.

Its a long list with no way to be sure which combination is killing it. Not in any order:

1. Lack of apps - I don't use a lot of apps and no social media apps but even I would dearly love some apps not available on WM.

2. A LOT of people are sheep and buy based on what they see their friends or celebrities use.

3. Many people need to interact with friends, etc using apps not on WM.

4. Almost total lack of marketing.

5. Without marketing, few people take the time to learn the benefits on their own.

6. In the US a lot of people buy phones from their carriers and those carriers offer few or no WM phones.

7. etc.

 

[nate0]

4. Almost total lack of marketing.

5. Without marketing, few people take the time to learn the benefits on their own.

6. In the US a lot of people buy phones from their carriers and those carriers offer few or no WM phones.

7. etc.

The marketing plan makes me wonder...
AT&T - Zero windows phones now on their list. The 950 used to still be there certified used, then the 640 was left, now nada.

Like was stated before, Microsoft is giving their partners a chance here to make devices, but like above, that plan makes me wonder too. Though it was stated too, that if their partners and OEMs do not that they will. So at what point or by what stat are they gauging that by? Or is it all by design? Who knows, but the folks who were either not on a flagship or not using the 640, will need to start looking for something else very soon. Maybe Microsoft planned it this way and so in 6 months we will see a barrage of newer hw in all price ranges again.

 

[LuxuryTouringZone]

Glad to hear that you like your 950 XL! Though many have already explained in thorough detail above, I believe the reason behind Microsoft's failure are the result of two things:
1) Not enough quality, popular apps available
2) Not enough regular Windows Phones being released on a consistent, yearly basis.

 

[nasznjoka]

POOR MARKETING!

With less than 1% of market share, no one know what WP is.

They really need to play up MS successes, like Skype. Explain Cortana. Explain their plan. ie. Your WP phone can work in with your car and home. And all other MS (and other devices and services).

No lay there quiet and then chase Android or Apple.

The design is beautiful. Live Tiles!

And it is a pretty solid performer. With the MS name, they should really have a bigger market share. I am amazed ...

Market to Seniors? They may not care so much for SnapChat, but big tiles that they can see....maybe...
Try a different demographic?

Mr. V

Everyone knows what windows phone is but it's generally known for sucking and nothing else

 

[slivy58]

Glad to hear that you like your 950 XL! Though many have already explained in thorough detail above, I believe the reason behind Microsoft's failure are the result of two things:
1) Not enough quality, popular apps available
2) Not enough regular Windows Phones being released on a consistent, yearly basis.

IMO it goes much deeper than that. As you said plus (no particular order)... The lack of support for existing apps, Dev's jumping ship, poor media attention, limited marketing, MSFT's lack of committent, an OS that came out of the box flawed and lacking (IMO still is), broader availability of devices (has always has been an issue), the constant change of directions/retrenchments, blah blah blah.

Not sure how one would go about rectifying this mess, to me it's all or nothing.

 

[nate0]

Where else can you find a mobile OS with a color profile or easily 500 nits brightness? Not to mention an incredible sunlight readability contrasting off-set that is also complimented with a Clear black display? Where can you find a OS this secure and still be able to side load apps? Without a bunch of add-ons where else can you find an OS with a Global dark them? Where else can you find a mobile OS that allows you to sync text/messaging sms/mms to your PC when you want or need to? What other mobile OS (besides 1) allows you to dock your device to a keyboard/mouse/display to work and do things as a PC would allow?

All these things may not be in every device, but it is a good reason it is not dead.

 

[andrew-in-woking]

The amount of Microsoft app updates coming through and a minor OS update this week represents quite a lot of work on Microsoft's behalf so they are clearly investing in the platform to some extent.

There seemed to be a protracted period of time when mobile network operators simply wouldn't promote Windows Phone/Mobile to consumers. It may have been MS's reputation as a business software provider but many of them definitely favoured Android and iPhones for some time. It may have been to do with support, that they don't want to have to support more than two operating systems. Whatever the reason it destroyed Microsoft's market share in mobile device operating systems and this in turn led to a failure to attract app developers.

Some people with longer memories will remember that Microsoft got a fairly bad reputation in the 1990s for aggressively taking over the PC operating system market so I suspect some people of influence may have acted to deliberately stop Microsoft gaining market share in mobile device Operating Systems markets to prevent a repeat of the same phenomenon. This was certainly true for the guys who started Snapchat, for example.

At this stage I wouldn't want to make a prediction about what will happen with Windows 10 Mobile, what Microsoft will do or what the mobile device market will look like in five years time but I don't think W10M could be written off as abandonware just yet!

 

[slivy58]

There seemed to be a protracted period of time when mobile network operators simply wouldn't promote Windows Phone/Mobile to consumers. It may have been MS's reputation as a business software provider but many of them definitely favoured Android and iPhones for some time. It may have been to do with support, that they don't want to have to support more than two operating systems. Whatever the reason it destroyed Microsoft's market share in mobile device operating systems and this in turn led to a failure to attract app developers.

Maybe that was the case or, Windows phone (prior to 2015) wasn't mature enough at the time enticing mobile operators to fully invest into it.

 

[TheHeroFromDOOM]

Phone will not work on my provider, have have to send it back. Wish I could of tried it longer but just was not in the cards. The OS how ever can be something, it's not to late at all. The smooth looking Windows OS was so easy to get use to. I hope Windows Phone gets better then it has ever been before.

 

[nate0]

Here is another thought. Sometimes I think of it this way in my spare time trying understand Microsoft's infinite paradoxical shift (or was it paradigm):
Microsoft is treading into uncharted territory. They are doing things with Windows yes, that has not been done before, but most if not all of it has not been done by any OS creator before. To me they are paving the way, and also setting the bar from here on out. I'm not certain Apple or Google will catch on or catch up to what they are doing. One, because nobody else is Microsoft. Two, neither of the 3 are on the same page (opposite agendas in some ways). Be nice if they could just create an alliance of some sort. Not saying that they really have to agree, but maybe at least try one day. Google is the only company out there making Microsoft's run for it a race. Microsoft is doing everything they can to play their cards right, because to them in some areas it could almost mean survival. It a lot of ways it is strategy. IMO mobile is the one thing they could afford as a casualty for the time being, but even though it seems like an inevitable outcome on the horizon nothing is a complete loss yet. I will add to like mentioned above in other words, just keep driving till the wheels fall off. You never know how far you or it will actually go unless you do it.

EDIT: Have you guys read any articles yet on Windows Server on ARM?

 

[Drael646464]

Here is another thought. Sometimes I think of it this way in my spare time trying understand Microsoft's infinite paradoxical shift (or was it paradigm):
Microsoft is treading into uncharted territory. They are doing things with Windows yes, that has not been done before, but most if not all of it has not been done by any OS creator before. To me they are paving the way, and also setting the bar from here on out. I'm not certain Apple or Google will catch on or catch up to what they are doing. One, because nobody else is Microsoft. Two, neither of the 3 are on the same page (opposite agendas in some ways). Be nice if they could just create an alliance of some sort. Not saying that they really have to agree, but maybe at least try one day. Google is the only company out there making Microsoft's run for it a race. Microsoft is doing everything they can to play their cards right, because to them in some areas it could almost mean survival. It a lot of ways it is strategy. IMO mobile is the one thing they could afford as a casualty for the time being, but even though it seems like an inevitable outcome on the horizon nothing is a complete loss yet. I will add to like mentioned above in other words, just keep driving till the wheels fall off. You never know how far you or it will actually go unless you do it.

EDIT: Have you guys read any articles yet on Windows Server on ARM?

Yeah I think a lot of MS's moves are fairly sophisticated, future oriented, and not always easy for the consumer to understand.

Making a platform independent OS for example - its a slow and complicated project. Its sort of herculean ambitious. And no one else is doing it. Even if they did, they'd be way behind already. But the pay off for that will be pretty clear - eventually all windows 10 devices, whether they be phones, tablets, PCs, hybrids wearables, consoles, cloudbooks - will all run UWP, and UWA via the windows store.

That's much more valuable than market dominance in one area, because it a) leverages market dominance in any area you have it, against the ones you don't and b) allows for complete and total device intergration between disperate devices without complication. It's a play that could actually make MS the dominant OS of the future.

People can't really see what that is, because they have only just started on it. Consumers will need to see cshell running on project scorpio, tablets, desktops and mobiles before they'll really get it - oh, this is the same OS on everything, just with a different UI - All this stuff works together seemlessly and runs the same software - that's revolutionary.

Because all these things are such big tasks, MS announces it, peoples eyes glaze over and they don't really get it. But fortunately we get some real tangible output soon, windows on arm, windows cloud, the beginings of cshell, and maybe next year project scorpio.

Yeah, I absolutely agree I don't think anyone will have a hope of catching up. Google has chromeOS, but lets be honest, its not replacing windows 10 any time soon. Apple might have had a shot, had they started on this 3-4 years ago.

BTW, I've seen that snapdragon made a server chip, and know that MS will make a arm based server OS - but with my limited imagination I'm not really seeing the benefits outright. I suppose large core numbers would be great for handling multiple user/system queries, so there's one. Low power consumption, another. Perhaps there's some function that LTE could add?

 

[nate0]

BTW, I've seen that snapdragon made a server chip, and know that MS will make a arm based server OS - but with my limited imagination I'm not really seeing the benefits outright. I suppose large core numbers would be great for handling multiple user/system queries, so there's one. Low power consumption, another. Perhaps there's some function that LTE could add?

My thinking exactly on your post whole post...
As far as server ARM, this is my thought on it. Modularity. I have seen it proposed many years ago, but thought nothing of it. Server's are obviously multiple CPU driven machines, and you cannot find one today that is single. So I am banking on modularity for that. Kind of like Grid compute engines but on a much smaller scale, still scalable, and also yes tons of energy and space saved, the wet cell can now become the newer Tesla cells so on and so forth...LTE maybe, the possibilities become endless. Why do you think Intel is investing a ton in 7nm?

 

[Drael646464]

My thinking exactly on your post whole post...
As far as server ARM, this is my thought on it. Modularity. I have seen it proposed many years ago, but thought nothing of it. Server's are obviously multiple CPU driven machines, and you cannot find one today that is single. So I am banking on modularity for that. Kind of like Grid compute engines but on a much smaller scale, still scalable, and also yes tons of energy and space saved, the wet cell can now become the newer Tesla cells so on and so forth...LTE maybe, the possibilities become endless. Why do you think Intel is investing a ton in 7nm?

Well we are always going to need more powerful and peripheral connected cpus, just like we now need low power ones. Interestingly so far, only IBM AFAIK are working on massively parallel - something that will surely come into play with machine learning seeing that is how the brain works. Although cells of multi-core would be a tad closer. Computings getting more diverse as time goes on, that'll probably just increase. Right now low power is the thing, and it certainly will be for awhile. It's also low margin though, people pay premium for high power.

I'd like to see liquid cooling and higher power cpus/dedicated GPUs come to tablets. But with windows on arm round the corner, and LTE pretty much becoming standard, that doesn't seem likely. But that's somewhere else intel could put its efforts - in the crossroads. Bring some mobile connectivity standard, and thunderbolt too, to the larger portable devices. Pack on some graphics power. Battery tech is getting better anyway. As is software power conservation.

And of course, intel has VR. Two eyes, at high res, and low latency, pushing 90 fps etc, that's intels ballpark.

Myself, I wanna see a tablet I can dock and use as a decently powerful desktop(Eventually one I can fold up, and put in my pocket 4 in 1 ) . I doubt ARM is going to be able to bring that, you need that single process grunt. And being smartphone focused they put network connectivity over periperpheral bandwidth unlike intel, such that would make a true docking eGPU/video/multi-monitor/harddrive work.

 

[nate0]

ARM might though. Fanless, low power, and small form factor. Anyone who can build smaller or at 7nm.

Unless you can get a screen only device connected to the cloud for computing...That is what I imagine.

 

[Drael646464]

ARM might though. Fanless, low power, and small form factor. Anyone who can build smaller or at 7nm.

Unless you can get a screen only device connected to the cloud for computing...That is what I imagine.

That's some high speed wifi and internet!

With say a tablet, you want there to touch something, and have it react. So your touch would go all the way to the server, get calculated, and then sent back before it responds. You need gamer level low latency here. Imperceivable.

Probably the only way to do that is FTL, like quantum entanglement. Wired, it might be possible, via the speed of light. Perhaps if you used a combination of li-fi, and really high speed fibre, but it would have more unreliable connectivity than regular wifi, and lifi needs line of sight.

It's not even really a matter of bandwidth. 5G might be enough for some basic video streaming. wifi can do basic streaming too. Although compression isn't ideal. To send something to a server, calculate it, and send it back, before you have time to perceptible notice the difference.... well that's pretty serious.

On the other hand if it were a query where an acceptable delay were allowed, like an AI query - then it wouid make a lot of sense to centralise that on hardware that is specialised to handle it.

I could imagine a combination - where straight forward computer stuff happens on your mobile device, and true intelligence is server/cloud based. And I could certainly imagine a dumb terminal screen pinging off a more powerful PC inside ones office or home, the range making the latency less of an issue.

You'd still want some power inside the device itself though, for when it falls off network. Otherwise it just becomes a slab.

 

[MrockNroll]

are you on T-Mobile? we had to change a blocked setting on our T-Mobile account for that to work.

 

[Tre Lawrence]

Its a long list with no way to be sure which combination is killing it. Not in any order:

1. Lack of apps - I don't use a lot of apps and no social media apps but even I would dearly love some apps not available on WM.

2. A LOT of people are sheep and buy based on what they see their friends or celebrities use.

3. Many people need to interact with friends, etc using apps not on WM.

4. Almost total lack of marketing.

5. Without marketing, few people take the time to learn the benefits on their own.

6. In the US a lot of people buy phones from their carriers and those carriers offer few or no WM phones.

7. etc.

I didn't know we used the "sheep" pejorative here too! Had to check the url.

I love WP, but that lack of ecosystem is what I think is the biggest barrier to mass adoption... much like BB10.

 

[Drael646464]

I didn't know we used the "sheep" pejorative here too! Had to check the url.

I love WP, but that lack of ecosystem is what I think is the biggest barrier to mass adoption... much like BB10.

BB10's ecosystem is to the Windows store, what the Windows store is to the Google play store, numerically speaking, its 1/3 of the size.

Amazon tablets do pretty well despite having less apps than Windows 10 mobile. Probably windows 10 mobile could have done a lot better if it was pitched budget like amazon tablets. apps aside. Chromebook is a similar story actually. They didn't always have android app support. Yet they still sold with under 10,000 apps in their store.

bb, like windows always tried to sell elite phones like Samsung and Apple, pitched to enterprise consumers. Which isn't entirely silly, they have a software edge there, and with certain niches (windows). But its now the budget end of android that gets a lot of growth love, even when quite bereft of apps, and google services-less.

Always why windows cloud and windows on arm is pretty smart, beyond the long term vision of convergence and one core. MS needs to encourage affordable everyday products, not just elite high performance ones as much as possible.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

I didn't know we used the "sheep" pejorative here too! Had to check the url.

Sorry, maybe I should have said Lemmings. I forget that some readers have an illogical negative opinion of sheep despite their many good qualities, including herd instincts which is a very positive attribute the enhances their safety and frees mental capacity for other pursuits.

Then again, some readers may harbor illogical prejudices against Lemmings.

Maybe we should ban analogies because the "glass is half empty" crowd could jump to wrong conclusions.

Whoops, did it again.

 

[Tre Lawrence]

Sorry, maybe I should have said Lemmings. I forget that some readers have an illogical negative opinion of sheep despite their many good qualities, including herd instincts which is a very positive attribute the enhances their safety and frees mental capacity for other pursuits.

Then again, some readers may harbor illogical prejudices against Lemmings.

Maybe we should ban analogies because the "glass is half empty" crowd could jump to wrong conclusions.

Whoops, did it again.

Most folks who use bovine descriptors for people who select consumer merchandise that differs from their own don't claim it is positive, so in that, you are unique.

But yes, lemmings sounds a bit less, uh, glass-full.

All Microsoft has to do is get a bigger herd of delightfully meek, woolly customers.