just tried the MS Surface and Acer Iconia W3

[hcrick]

Software and ecosystem aside, the build quality of the Surface line is top notch.

 

[Buren06]

People didn't complain that an iPad couldn't run Mac OS software because it didn't need to. It has all kinds of apps available. Windows RT apps are limited, leaving the functionality lower than iPad's. If Windows RT had the apps available that the iPad has, giving it similar functionality, people wouldn't complain about not being able to run Windows legacy apps.

If there were a bunch of iPads being released that did everything an iPad could do AND run OSX apps, I think it would have been a bigger consideration. Microsoft is giving consumers an inferior platform in an effort to push that unsuccessful inferior platform to more consumers, and they deserve to be criticized for that.

 

[Insti Gator]

I have a Surface RT, and I love it. Bought it the week it came out in a pop-up store in Dallas. With help from some members of this forum, I decided to get the W3, and haven't touched my Surface in weeks. I admit, compared to the screen of the Surface, the W3's screen is not the best, but for a one person device, it is pretty easily overlooked...for me anyways. My only real complaint with the W3 (I knew about screen quality before hand, so I can't complain) is the volume level in Netflix. It's very low. I use my W3 all day...every day. Overall, I love this little guy. It's a great little tablet...that happens to be running a full OS. Pretty cool.

Love my Iconia W3! It can do everything I used to do on my phone and then switch to my computer - all in one place.

 

[fatclue_98]

If there were a bunch of iPads being released that did everything an iPad could do AND run OSX apps, I think it would have been a bigger consideration. Microsoft is giving consumers an inferior platform in an effort to push that unsuccessful inferior platform to more consumers, and they deserve to be criticized for that.

Too bad this "unsuccessful inferior platform" is ONLY on 95% of the world's computers. OSX is only on 10% in the US and less than 5% worldwide. Don't get me wrong, I have OSX on my home desktop but I can't commit to Apple products for work because the rest of the computing world runs on Windows. Here endeth the lesson.

 

[Jas00555]

Too bad this "unsuccessful inferior platform" is ONLY on 95% of the world's computers. OSX is only on 10% in the US and less than 5% worldwide. Don't get me wrong, I have OSX on my home desktop but I can't commit to Apple products for work because the rest of the computing world runs on Windows. Here endeth the lesson.

Actually, OSX runs on 7% of the world (a 20 million difference), 13% in America. Also, I think he meant the inferior platform was RT, which runs on about .3% of the of the world.

 

[Jas00555]

About people developing for WinRT... even WPCentral doesn't have an app for the Windows store... I was amazed to see that they hadn't made one...

actually, Jay has said multiple times that he hasn't had time to develop anything

 

[fatclue_98]

Actually, OSX runs on 7% of the world (a 20 million difference), 13% in America. Also, I think he meant the inferior platform was RT, which runs on about .3% of the of the world.

Net Statistics, Gardner, they all use different metrics. The percentages will vary, +/- 5% is considered within tolerance in any given poll.

I do believe he/she was referring to W8 though, considering the thread also deals with a W8 Pro device. There's many people out there that simply don't like the new Windows. I think it's a great UI and I'm not a young person who deals well with change.

 

[Buren06]

Net Statistics, Gardner, they all use different metrics. The percentages will vary, +/- 5% is considered within tolerance in any given poll.

I do believe he/she was referring to W8 though, considering the thread also deals with a W8 Pro device. There's many people out there that simply don't like the new Windows. I think it's a great UI and I'm not a young person who deals well with change.

I was indeed referring to RT in particular. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that.

I'm not debating the merits of OSX or not, just addressing the iPad analogy. I consider full Windows 8 to be the most functional and versatile system available to consumers right now, and have a hard time justifying it when OEMs put RT on their devices when there are virtually no advantages.

Microsoft isn't stupid, I'm sure they know the drawbacks of RT. However, I think it serves their long term agenda with RT/WP8.1/ARM in general to push RT out to as many people as possible, at the expense of their product's quality and functionality.

 

[fatclue_98]

I was indeed referring to RT in particular. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that.

I'm not debating the merits of OSX or not, just addressing the iPad analogy. I consider full Windows 8 to be the most functional and versatile system available to consumers right now, and have a hard time justifying it when OEMs put RT on their devices when there are virtually no advantages.

Microsoft isn't stupid, I'm sure they know the drawbacks of RT. However, I think it serves their long term agenda with RT/WP8.1/ARM in general to push RT out to as many people as possible, at the expense of their product's quality and functionality.

Thanks for the clarification. I look at RT for what it is: a "preview" of what you can get with Pro. iPads & Androids have certain features you can only get with ARM chips such as instant on, longer battery life, etc. W8 is a full-on OS as you mentioned and the power management simply isn't there yet to compete. The price point of RT tablets will make iOS users think about it and some will make the move. Even loyal Microsoft users have gone from the RT to a Pro tablet. I see the RT as a stepping stone for the uninitiated, or "gateway drug" if you will.

 

[WillysJeepMan]

Thanks for the clarification. I look at RT for what it is: a "preview" of what you can get with Pro. iPads & Androids have certain features you can only get with ARM chips such as instant on, longer battery life, etc. W8 is a full-on OS as you mentioned and the power management simply isn't there yet to compete. The price point of RT tablets will make iOS users think about it and some will make the move. Even loyal Microsoft users have gone from the RT to a Pro tablet. I see the RT as a stepping stone for the uninitiated, or "gateway drug" if you will.

I'm still not seeing how the Pro becomes viable. It is overly optimistic to think that people will pay ultrabook prices for what is nothing more than a high quality netbook.

I'm a firm believer that it's the RT/2 that will ultimately be the successful model (relatively speaking). What I'm experiencing with my tweaked RT and the promise of even better performance with the Surface 2 tells me that if Microsoft can get the word out, people can see what they're actually getting with those devices.

 

[fatclue_98]

I'm still not seeing how the Pro becomes viable. It is overly optimistic to think that people will pay ultrabook prices for what is nothing more than a high quality netbook.

I'm a firm believer that it's the RT/2 that will ultimately be the successful model (relatively speaking). What I'm experiencing with my tweaked RT and the promise of even better performance with the Surface 2 tells me that if Microsoft can get the word out, people can see what they're actually getting with those devices.

If the x86 models can coax better power management without sacrificing performance, it's a no-brainer. Full Windows 8 with the ability to run legacy apps and peripherals can, and always will, trump the best ARM-based tablets regardless of manufacturer. I'm hoping that the RT platform thrives, but to call it a better option than Pro is being disingenuous. I would expect that comment comparing a Pro tablet to a netbook to come from a non-Microsoft user.

 

[crash1989]

ohh another surface thread ... goody .. these are the videos I posted on 2 other threads I think

stop using it as a full pc , think of it as a productive tablet that can also be an awesome media consumption device. and it's cheap too compared to "you know who" tablets

Why I love my Microsoft Surface RT - YouTube

Why I love my Microsoft Surface RT, Part 2 - YouTube

 

[slowboy920]

I don't know why anyone would compare Pro to a netbook. I believe most people are used to the cheap windows machine. The Pro is not that much smaller than MBA, but none calls it a "netbook."

 

[Buren06]

ohh another surface thread ... goody .. these are the videos I posted on 2 other threads I think

stop using it as a full pc , think of it as a productive tablet that can also be an awesome media consumption device. and it's cheap too compared to "you know who" tablets

Why I love my Microsoft Surface RT - YouTube

Why I love my Microsoft Surface RT, Part 2 - YouTube

I wouldn't deny that it's still productive for an ARM tablet, and that it's still superior to an iPad - particularly the Surface 2. Only comparing it to what it COULD be.

 

[slowboy920]

The main issue is that we've come to expect Windows to be a full OS. Anything less than that and people start pointing out the negatives. We have to remember this is only the 2 gen of Surface. RT is probably far ahead compared to Apple and Android when they first started. All this discussion is great, allows for a better product

 

[crash1989]

I wouldn't deny that it's still productive for an ARM tablet, and that it's still superior to an iPad - particularly the Surface 2. Only comparing it to what it COULD be.

yeah, agree with you on that. I posted this wrt to another comment forgot to quote it

 

[WillysJeepMan]

I don't know why anyone would compare Pro to a netbook. I believe most people are used to the cheap windows machine. The Pro is not that much smaller than MBA, but none calls it a "netbook."

Netbooks were Windows systems with 10" displays and no CD drives. Ultrabooks generally have a 13"-14" display.

The 11" MBA is a netbook... a very expensive netbook, but a netbook nonetheless, IMO at least.

Here's the thing... nobody claimed that netbooks were designed for serious work and pointed to the 10" display as the primary reason for that.... that things like Photoshop are very difficult to use effectively on a 10" screen. But suddenly, because Microsoft is making a premiere 10.6" tablet that doubles as a laptop of sorts, suddenly 10.6" is perfectly adequate for serious work like Photoshop.

That's my opinion. It is my opinion that the Surface 2 will be more of a commercial success than the Pro. I'm not trying to convince anyone to change their minds, but I AM puzzled why people appear to be taking things personally (like I've insulted their mom or something) when I say something that isn't blindly pro-Microsoft.

 

[fatclue_98]

Netbooks were Windows systems with 10" displays and no CD drives. Ultrabooks generally have a 13"-14" display.

The 11" MBA is a netbook... a very expensive netbook, but a netbook nonetheless, IMO at least.

Here's the thing... nobody claimed that netbooks were designed for serious work and pointed to the 10" display as the primary reason for that.... that things like Photoshop are very difficult to use effectively on a 10" screen. But suddenly, because Microsoft is making a premiere 10.6" tablet that doubles as a laptop of sorts, suddenly 10.6" is perfectly adequate for serious work like Photoshop.

That's my opinion. It is my opinion that the Surface 2 will be more of a commercial success than the Pro. I'm not trying to convince anyone to change their minds, but I AM puzzled why people appear to be taking things personally (like I've insulted their mom or something) when I say something that isn't blindly pro-Microsoft.

Windows netbooks typically came with W7 Starter Edition and had Atom processors. They were called "netbooks" for a reason, they were good for light web browsing, checking email and not much else. Many of the Windows convertibles of the mid 2000s had full Pentium processors, 12.1" screens with active digitizers and yet few had optical drives. I certainly wouldn't call them netbooks just because they had a screen size of less than your arbitrary 13".

Neither the RT, or any ARM-based device, will ever replace an x86 device. The proliferation of these consumption tablets is creating a false illusion that the consumer market has begun to dominate and that businesses will have to adapt to this type of device. The government, healthcare and engineering industries simply will not allow this to happen. Considering that most healthcare programs still run Windows 2000 Professional ought to bring home the point that some of these industries will not invest the ridiculous amount of money needed to adopt new hardware, software, IT training, etc.

I understand that you enjoy using your RT, I get it. It's a wonderful device and I really hope it succeeds, but to think it will be more successful in the marketplace as opposed to the Pro or any x86 tablet is wishful thinking. This is my opinion, I hope I haven't offended you or anyone else.

 

[slowboy920]

Netbooks were Windows systems with 10" displays and no CD drives. Ultrabooks generally have a 13"-14" display.

The 11" MBA is a netbook... a very expensive netbook, but a netbook nonetheless, IMO at least.

Here's the thing... nobody claimed that netbooks were designed for serious work and pointed to the 10" display as the primary reason for that.... that things like Photoshop are very difficult to use effectively on a 10" screen. But suddenly, because Microsoft is making a premiere 10.6" tablet that doubles as a laptop of sorts, suddenly 10.6" is perfectly adequate for serious work like Photoshop.

That's my opinion. It is my opinion that the Surface 2 will be more of a commercial success than the Pro. I'm not trying to convince anyone to change their minds, but I AM puzzled why people appear to be taking things personally (like I've insulted their mom or something) when I say something that isn't blindly pro-Microsoft.

I don't think people are insulted,. Always good to have discussion, that's how people move forward. Everyone's consumption is different and 10.6" may not work for the majority, but for people who require work and portability, need it. I work in the health care profession and need web-based Citrix for work, which the RT can't do. Mainly reason why I will most likely get SP2. I do agree that sometimes doing work on a 10.6" screen is not doable, but able to dock while at home/work, makes it a great travel companion. I have a 15.4" laptop and at times find it difficulty to work on for long period of time. I agree that x86 device will not go away.

 

[Scienceguy Labs]

Just wanted to let the other person on the planet that owns the W3 that Staples is selling the Acer Iconia W3 official keyboard/case for $24.99. Picked mine up today. Also, they had the HDMI to VGA connector for $6.99. Didn't need that, but just wanted to pass along the info.