Legacy PHones no Apollo Update, will get 7.8 update

[fogel35]

I suspect that it was Microsoft?s original plan to attempt to bring WP8 to current WP7.5 devices. But while exploring the different methods of how to migrate from the current CE kernel to the newer W8 Kernel, it most likely became more and more apparent how complex the task would be for end users to flash the upgrade to current devices with out bricking the device. I believe Microsoft made the right choice in giving current devices the 7.8 update and making WP8 for new devices going forward. I also believe that the 7.8 update will be no small slouch of an update. As many others have stated before it will probly contain most of the new software features that WP8 has sans the obvious hardware limits of NFC, Multi-Core, or Native Code Apps Etc?

Just not sure that can be believed. I do not believe they are going to bring anything more than the home screen of WP8 to legacy devices. They couldn't even flash a new kernel onto a SoC that is 12-18 months old.

 

[rdubmu]

Educate me: Is iOS 5.1.1 the same OS that runs on iPad and MacBook Air and iPhones?

the iOS platform is based off of mac os x core.

just like windows phone 8 will be based off windows 8 core.

Also the iPad and iPhone run pretty much the same os with just a few differences. But the iPad can run iPhone apps.

 

[fatclue_98]

My arguments make total sense but you're so hurt by Microsoft's decision that you're refusing to listen to reasoning of any kind. I'm not here to mitigate your emotions, only explain the fallacy in your logic. I've already told you that I understand your frustration and explained what would happen if Microsoft tried to bring everything that is WP8 to current devices. Some are happy with the scaled back 7.8, others aren't. I can't fix that. Nor will your mishmash of incoherent paragraphs (FYI: there are pretty massive holes in your argument above). I could point those out, again, but it's clear you're not listening. We've already explained the app situation and we've explained why the 900 won't magically become a paperweight come fall. Epic could now easily port Infinity Blade II to 7.8 devices and very quickly have it running on WP8 and Win8. That ensures a good experience across 3 devices, but that doesn't seem to matter to you. You'd rather whine, and b*tch, and moan. Sorry, I'm not playing that game. If you're afraid that your 900 is going to become an overnight paperweight, then yes, sell it. Me? I'm going to continue enjoying new apps and my software update. I'm going to put faith in developers and trust that they're not completely ********.

Why do you even bother to waste your time. Are Palm OS phones non-functional? No, they're still out there running whatever firmware was last offered. Same goes for webOS phones, WinMo phones, etc. The sky is NOT falling, yet these people think the phone fairy is going to come in the middle of the night and snatch their mojo.

 

[mb-dape]

My arguments make total sense but you're so hurt by Microsoft's decision that you're refusing to listen to reasoning of any kind. I'm not here to mitigate your emotions, only explain the fallacy in your logic. I've already told you that I understand your frustration and explained what would happen if Microsoft tried to bring everything that is WP8 to current devices. Some are happy with the scaled back 7.8, others aren't. I can't fix that. Nor will your mishmash of incoherent paragraphs (FYI: there are pretty massive holes in your argument above). I could point those out, again, but it's clear you're not listening. We've already explained the app situation and we've explained why the 900 won't magically become a paperweight come fall. Epic could now easily port Infinity Blade II to 7.8 devices and very quickly have it running on WP8 and Win8. That ensures a good experience across 3 devices, but that doesn't seem to matter to you. You'd rather whine, and b*tch, and moan. Sorry, I'm not playing that game. If you're afraid that your 900 is going to become an overnight paperweight, then yes, sell it. Me? I'm going to continue enjoying new apps and my software update. I'm going to put faith in developers and trust that they're not completely ********.

Thanks for understanding at least. Since English isnt my first language I understand that my writings can seem confusing (spellings, words, sentences). Unfortunately I find it difficult to keep it short when I dont know the language that well.

Yeah, my arguments probably has holes too. I might be partly blinded by disappointment but I am not completely blinded. If you or someone else give me a good argument I am open to change my mind.

But as you see, I am not really satisfied with what I am hearing.

Just look at the Gingerbread example you gave: "Look, the developers still support the two year old Gingerbread, just because they think of the users (and probably want to make money).
How come you didnt say anything about Gingerbread still being the next most popular phone OS with over 200 million users and is still growing?

And I dont know how many examples of how bad app X works on Android X or iPhone, or how long Android X got to wait for an OS upgrade you have given.

But you can not find an example where flagship models have been phased out of the eco-system just months after their release.

I dont like your attitude about "you bought a phone with 2 year old hardware, blame yourself". Its a little different in US where WP7 and also Nokia Lumia 900 has been released longer then here.

But as I see the situation here, Nokia Lumia 900 has just been released and probably 9 out of 10 that buys it has no idea that WP8 is coming or that it has 2 years old hardware. It sells because Nokia and Windows are trusted and because a huge ad campaign where WP is pointed out as the future.

Many people here buy the Lumia 900 for about 800 USD and have no idea that next spring/summer when their friends with even older iPhones, Androids and new WP8 gets the cool games and apps they wont.

I think its unfair of MS to not keep such a device up to date for at least 18 months.

"The smartphone beta test is over" says the ad that want to sell a phone with an OS that will be phased out in 4 months. Isnt it a little too ironic?

Thanks for discussing, it has been fun! Now I will celebrate summer by going for a swim and later try out that new Absolut vodka with my brother... I hope you have a nice weekend too.

 

[mb-dape]

Just not sure that can be believed. I do not believe they are going to bring anything more than the home screen of WP8 to legacy devices. They couldn't even flash a new kernel onto a SoC that is 12-18 months old.

The problem is not that they COULDN'T. Of course it would be possible. Android phones with the same SOC and GPU as the HTC Titan WP is running the latest ICS without problem and is capable of playing, although the not latest, some very CPU/GPU intensive games. And then we know how incredidbly hardware demanding and badly written Android are

 

[rockstarzzz]

Many people here buy the Lumia 900 for about 800 USD and have no idea that next spring/summer when their friends with even older iPhones, Androids and new WP8 gets the cool games and apps they wont.

I think its unfair of MS to not keep such a device up to date for at least 18 months.

"The smartphone beta test is over" says the ad that want to sell a phone with an OS that will be phased out in 4 months. Isnt it a little too ironic?

Thanks for discussing, it has been fun! Now I will celebrate summer by going for a swim and later try out that new Absolut vodka with my brother... I hope you have a nice weekend too.

Riiiight...
So.. Many people buy those phones and have no idea about WP8..You know why?

Because they ****ing dont care about WP8. Those are the people who want to live NOW, who are shelling their money for what is PRESENT. Not future. Shame most of the people on this forum right now aren't them.

They won't have the latest and the greatest game - who said so? They will have all the games and apps that other platforms will have apart from those made by ******** developers who don't know how to make money and will *hopefully* will ignore 15 million of installed base. But you know what, there won't be any developer apart from the small indie newbie who would commit this mistake. I hope you aren't hoping an indie dev to make that greatest game in question right?

MS is going to keep these devices update for 18 months. The said WP7.8 will come to handsets in Nov-Dec. WP8 will come December with install base of ZERO. Devs will make apps that are for WP7.5 which can ALSO be used on WP8. So WP8 devs have 15 million install base instead of ZERO. The WP7.8 will refresh phones released latest in April 2012 just after 8 months from their release. This refresh will add feature which will hopefully take the phone 10 more months? - happy, 18 months, there.

Yes, smartphone beta test is over and hence we have WP8.0, which everyone will enjoy more than the absolut vodka. I hope when it hits the market, you enjoy it with your Microsoft Surface. I know, I would.

 

[rmichael75]

If you see nokia's responses , they say that the features which do not require hardware will come to windows 7.8 and that 7.8 is long from being dead. I have a thought going in my mind that Nokia is thiking of keeping this OS for its low end versions that it is going to release and it will continue supporting for a long time. Provided they can weather out the disbelievers for the next 3 months when they are allowed to make the announcement.

I am planning to buy Lumia 900 after Win 8 launches. .. it will be cheaper.. I get best phone which will be friendly to my wallet.

By then there is going to be a lot of apps.

So one thing i will say to doomers... hold on and enjoy what you have and it is not going to be extinct in the next 3 months.

 

[HeyCori]

Thanks for discussing, it has been fun! Now I will celebrate summer by going for a swim and later try out that new Absolut vodka with my brother... I hope you have a nice weekend too.

Thanks. You have a fun weekend too. I'm starting my weekend off at work.

 

[Old_Cus]

Thanks for discussing, it has been fun! Now I will celebrate summer by going for a swim and later try out that new Absolut vodka with my brother... I hope you have a nice weekend too.

Now that's the spirit!

 

[fogel35]

If you see nokia's responses , they say that the features which do not require hardware will come to windows 7.8 and that 7.8 is long from being dead. I have a thought going in my mind that Nokia is thiking of keeping this OS for its low end versions that it is going to release and it will continue supporting for a long time. Provided they can weather out the disbelievers for the next 3 months when they are allowed to make the announcement.

I am planning to buy Lumia 900 after Win 8 launches. .. it will be cheaper.. I get best phone which will be friendly to my wallet.

By then there is going to be a lot of apps.

So one thing i will say to doomers... hold on and enjoy what you have and it is not going to be extinct in the next 3 months.

Listen to what Microsoft says and cut out the ****** echo chamber. Microsoft only said, " Current apps will work in Windows Phone 8". Yet fanboys were sure that current devices would get the latest update.

Secondly they have only said that 7.8 would get the start screen and customization. Take them at their word. There is nothing else coming or they would have said it. Microsoft isn't selling phones, they just sell licenses to OEM's. I take whatever Nokia says with a grain of salt. They have to say they are bringing "features" or else Wall Street will be correct and Nokia is finished (which is probably true anyways). Their "features" are going to be applications ( i.e. Camera Extras, PlayTo, etc) to "enhance" what is all ready there. VoIP is not going to be running in the background, IM clients besides the built in Facebook chat are still going to be terrible, and multitasking is still going to a painful experience of waiting for the app to refresh or relaunch.

If you like your phone the way it is now, then your golden. If you were like me, an android user, who bought into the hype that Microsoft takes care of its users by having them on the most current version of their software ,then you got burnt bad. Sure would love to see them unlock all these new 2-6 month old devices to a development community like XDA.

 

[petersun21]

I am with you

Thanks for understanding at least. Since English isnt my first language I understand that my writings can seem confusing (spellings, words, sentences). Unfortunately I find it difficult to keep it short when I dont know the language that well.

Yeah, my arguments probably has holes too. I might be partly blinded by disappointment but I am not completely blinded. If you or someone else give me a good argument I am open to change my mind.

But as you see, I am not really satisfied with what I am hearing.

Just look at the Gingerbread example you gave: "Look, the developers still support the two year old Gingerbread, just because they think of the users (and probably want to make money).
How come you didnt say anything about Gingerbread still being the next most popular phone OS with over 200 million users and is still growing?

And I dont know how many examples of how bad app X works on Android X or iPhone, or how long Android X got to wait for an OS upgrade you have given.

But you can not find an example where flagship models have been phased out of the eco-system just months after their release.

I dont like your attitude about "you bought a phone with 2 year old hardware, blame yourself". Its a little different in US where WP7 and also Nokia Lumia 900 has been released longer then here.

But as I see the situation here, Nokia Lumia 900 has just been released and probably 9 out of 10 that buys it has no idea that WP8 is coming or that it has 2 years old hardware. It sells because Nokia and Windows are trusted and because a huge ad campaign where WP is pointed out as the future.

Many people here buy the Lumia 900 for about 800 USD and have no idea that next spring/summer when their friends with even older iPhones, Androids and new WP8 gets the cool games and apps they wont.

I think its unfair of MS to not keep such a device up to date for at least 18 months.

"The smartphone beta test is over" says the ad that want to sell a phone with an OS that will be phased out in 4 months. Isnt it a little too ironic?

Thanks for discussing, it has been fun! Now I will celebrate summer by going for a swim and later try out that new Absolut vodka with my brother... I hope you have a nice weekend too.

When they wanted to sell you the phone, they told you how good it was. When then decided to abandon the ship, the are telling how bad it is. It is total rubish.

 

[blehblehbleh]

Listen to what Microsoft says and cut out the ****** echo chamber. Microsoft only said, " Current apps will work in Windows Phone 8". Yet fanboys were sure that current devices would get the latest update.

Secondly they have only said that 7.8 would get the start screen and customization. Take them at their word. There is nothing else coming or they would have said it.

"Existing Windows Phone 7.x users will also receive the 7.8 update around that time, bringing UI updates and other undisclosed "core customer experiences." ...The company is clearly trying to address some changes in its phone operating system by appeasing existing users with an update, but it?s unclear at this stage exactly how much functionality Windows Phone 7.8 will gain from its 8.0 counterpart."

-The Verge

Ain't over till it's over.

 

[fogel35]

"Existing Windows Phone 7.x users will also receive the 7.8 update around that time, bringing UI updates and other undisclosed "core customer experiences." ...The company is clearly trying to address some changes in its phone operating system by appeasing existing users with an update, but it’s unclear at this stage exactly how much functionality Windows Phone 7.8 will gain from its 8.0 counterpart."

-The Verge

Ain't over till it's over.

It's Dead Jim ( for comedic purposes )

If they had anything ( remember we are 4 months away ), then they would have said something. Let me repeat it again. We are getting the start screen and customizations. A more robust background task ( IM and VoIP), IE 10, etc were all announced for Windows Phone 8. All they mentioned in their own little presentation, and I will repeat again, for 7.8 was start screen and customizations.

Everything after the presentation is spin.

Heck Nokia slipped and said that it was coming in a few weeks and had to back peddle. Notice how that same kind of stuff happened about existing devices getting upgraded to the most current version. You had some guy leak out that all would and then have to retract. Same thing happened here.

 

[Narr]

For me it's not a problem, Mango is still a great OS and I know what I've purchased, I knew what it didn't have and why it was better than other OS out there so am I annoyed that I can't run WP8? Nope.
I'm not making excuses for Microsoft (I don't think any need to be made), I purchased Mango so I'm happy and the Nokia 900 is a lovely phone; much better than the Titan which I also have. Before the WP8 announcement I had a great phone and since the announcement I still have a great phone.

 

[canesfan625]

When will people get it though their heads that Microsoft isn't the only factor here? Its like a broken record of moron.

OEMS would also have to be willing to write new boot loaders and new drivers.

If they don't want to they aren't going to. Its time consuming and costly. You can barely get OEMS to push an android update because of just having to update their bloatware.

Also, Carriers told Microsoft that if they couldn't get an upgrade path in place they would not push it because they didnt want people piling into their service centers to get a flash.

 

[Daniel Ratcliffe]

OEMS would also have to be willing to write new boot loaders and new drivers.

If they don't want to they aren't going to. Its time consuming and costly. You can barely get OEMS to push an android update because of just having to update their bloatware.

Although naturally if they're updating their bloatware for new devices, just chuck it on the old device, since it's already been done. Unless they have to make further optimizations to run it on the older hardware, then I can see your point.

Also, Carriers told Microsoft that if they couldn't get an upgrade path in place they would not push it because they didn't want people piling into their service centers to get a flash.

Why? It's the perfect time to say "Sorry, the phone's dead, we're gonna have to sell you a new one". It would have got carriers raking in even more money...

 

[rmichael75]

Yeah I'm done with WP. Signed 2 years contract for the Lumia and that's all I got, a new start screen. The way I see it is that they didn't implement enough new software features that a simple 0.3 OS update is enough to satisfy the old WP7 adopters. For the new adopters of WP8...that will be all you get.

So much for the "beta has ended" advertisement from Nokia

.. as of now you are getting the start screen since that is all they showed.... Be patient and you will know... wait for few more weeks you will get more information. Dont spoil your happyness just yet....

 

[B00m79]

I'm not going to lie, I'm a Lumia 900 owner, and I'm disappointed. I'm not angry, I'm not calling for the downfall of all things Microsoft and Nokia, but I am disappointed my phone won't be able to upgrade to WP8.

My previous Android phone broke and I needed a new one, I had a choice between buying the Lumia and waiting (impatiently) for the HTC One X to come out. I went with the Lumia, in no small part because of the assumption that Nokia wouldn't release a product that wouldn't be able to upgrade to WP8, which I knew was coming out in the fall. I understood it wouldn't get hardware dependent updates, nor did I expect it to, but I did expect it to able to run the same core (kernel).

Microsoft could have designed the core to be compatible with the old hardware. It would have taken more time and been more difficult, and they chose not to. I get it, in retrospect, it's a logical business decision. I also understand Nokia's need to get more smartphones out the door, they are in pretty bad shape as a company (junk bond status, 10k announced layoffs), so I understand their business decision to push their Lumia phones now.

However, I'm still disappointed my phone isn't upgradeable to the newest OS, because I expect it will miss out on shared features with Windows 8 and the Xbox 720. Do I know that for a fact? No, but it seems likely based on the benefits we're going to see from a shared kernel.

I like my Lumia. I don't love it, it's hasn't wowed me (due to the poor camera, echo in calls at high volumes (seriously, I can barely use it in our datacenter because the feedback for the person calling me is so bad when it's maxed out), and smaller app selection). It's a good phone, but it's not great. I've had iPhones, Androids, and now this one. I'm appreciative Nokia will still make apps for it, and the 7.8 update is nice, but it's something I expect, not feel grateful for, as my phone is only 2 months old.

Nokia will make me happy if they or ATT offer an early upgrade discount (similar to the iPhone one on ATT before the iPhone 4 release) on WP8 hardware. If they offer that, I'm a happy camper and will stick with WP. If not, I have a much hard decision to make as for my next phone purchase.

Not crying, not whining, just disappointed, and wanting to be impressed.

 

[SteelSteve]

I'm ok with this as well. There are a few minor things that will hopefully be fixed in 7.8. Otherwise this phone does everything i could want it to do.

Sent from my Lumia 710 using Board Express

 

[12Danny123]

It's Dead Jim ( for comedic purposes )

Click to view quoted image


If they had anything ( remember we are 4 months away ), then they would have said something. Let me repeat it again. We are getting the start screen and customizations. A more robust background task ( IM and VoIP), IE 10, etc were all announced for Windows Phone 8. All they mentioned in their own little presentation, and I will repeat again, for 7.8 was start screen and customizations.

Everything after the presentation is spin.

Heck Nokia slipped and said that it was coming in a few weeks and had to back peddle. Notice how that same kind of stuff happened about existing devices getting upgraded to the most current version. You had some guy leak out that all would and then have to retract. Same thing happened here.

No they clearly stated that wp7.8 will have more features. Than the start screen. It would be the software side of wp8. Which I expect to be a a lot of features maybe more than mango. That was a developer event. The would be a event for consumers. So I don't think the would be a problem