Legacy PHones no Apollo Update, will get 7.8 update

[selfcreation]

its cause WP8 uses completely different kernels then wp7.8.... its almost like comparing wm6.5 to WP7

the only thing i can see is instead of having integration like on WP8... is apps ..

like apple did with SIRI... Iphone 4 dint get it build it but you can download the app...

bah, ether way will get more info in the weeks to come.

it still better then getting nothing like if you had a Older Android phone.

 

[bear_lx]

read your pm ...

 

[HeyCori]

"I will also like to point out that (and I'm quite sure this will piss more people off) your "new" Lumia/Titan II isn't new. They're all Gen2 devices that came out in November of last year."

um, the 900 came out in April, don't know what time distortion field you are using.

And it's still a Gen2 device. Gen2 devices came out last year. The innards of the 900 are not new, circa 2012. They're old, circa mid 2011 and tossed into the Titan/Focus S in late 2011. There's nothing "new" about the hardware inside the 900/Titan II. By the time WP8 hits, the hardware inside second gen devices will be over a year old.

 

[Corepc]

There's nothing "new" about the hardware inside the 900/Titan II.

What about the "LTE" that is new hardware per say that 900/Titan2/Focus 2 have over gen 1&2 hardware.

 

[HeyCori]

What about the "LTE" that is new hardware per say that 900/Titan2/Focus 2 have over gen 1&2 hardware.

The impact LTE would have on OS upgrades is relatively minor.

 

[Squatting Hen]

I would be more upset if I actually paid for my phone, but since Microsoft was doing the WP Challenge, I was able to get it for free. I also think this "update" was a big reason for doing the challenge when they did. Now, as a consumer who does research, I would never have purchased a current WP. The hardware was outdated from day 1. I have mentioned this numerous times only to be called out from WP fans stating that “WP doesn’t need multiple cores” and other upgrades that almost all other phones in the same price range have. If I buy a cheap computer today with a low end processor and minimal RAM, it is not going to be able to do all the same things in a year as it can today. WP’s are currently a low end hardware phone, and always have been. Microsoft needed to release better phones in order to compete with Apple and Google. They are finally going to do what they should have done in the first place. It’s just unfortunate that so many believed that these things were not necessary.

What sucks a bit for me having watched the event and reading all the news about it is...now I have to wait for the update. I want it now.
Can't wait to adjust my start screen.

 

[sdreamer]

Read over the thread a bit more, and I really, honestly, find it surprising some people bought the phone just for the sake of WP8. I bought the phone because it's a WP, with a chance of getting the next update. Yeah, MS probably could have promised more for us, especially with launching a dated phone so late in the game then not supporting it more than 6 months, but users have to remember that even with the latest Android out there, 7 or the top 9 phones filtered by Avg Customer Rating are Windows Phones (according to Amazon). I think that speaks a lot. Our phones are good, and we're somewhat lucky enough to be getting a nice UI update (I really hope it was misunderstood by WPCentral and Paul Thurott that 7.8 will just be a Start screen update). As users of WP I think we still have to remember that our devices are just as good as even the latest stuff out there, even without 7.8.

As for 7.8 being Start screen only. I can't imagine MSFT will sit on it, just show the Start screen at the Summit and not let anyone toy with it without having anything else to add to it that they do not want to reveal. The way they put it in the presentation it really did sound like just the Start screen, but no where in the presentation of from anyone official did they say the word "only" to my knowledge; it's only been alluded to and solidified by media sources, but not official confirmed stated from a WP team member. Even only the WP blog they never stated "only" but only mentioned that they would be "providing the new Start screen in this new update." (Windows Phone Blog) They have more time to put things in, and I think fill in the holes of WP7 to make it a solid WP7 experience without the extra of WP8, and I hope they do. One thing that comes to mind are password protected app purchases for example; I don't think this requires a new kernel or anything, but it would be nice to have this fixed. Maybe even open up more apis and deep api linking to allow better multitasking. I think it's possible, and hope it happens.

And it's still a Gen2 device. Gen2 devices came out last year. The innards of the 900 are not new, circa 2012. They're old, circa mid 2011 and tossed into the Titan/Focus S in late 2011. There's nothing "new" about the hardware inside the 900/Titan II. By the time WP8 hits, the hardware inside second gen devices will be over a year old.

Isn't it more like Gen 1.5 now? The hardware didn't exactly change that much even from Gen 1s except clock speed really. It's been the same res, single core, 512 RAM, etc. Maybe a fancy new screen tech here, higher res camera sensor there (with bsi for some phones), but overall, it's more like a half increment now. The only thing that pushed them to "Gen2" was the Mango update. NoDo was more of a refresh wasn't it, (wasn't a WP user at the time), and wasn't really associated with any phone releases at the time I believe. The only thing new about the Lumia 900 and Titan II are manufacturing dates. Even the Lumia 800 has been out for quite a while. I'd say though, by the time WP8 roles around it's specs will be outdated. Apple doesn't worry about this because they set their own stuff and it runs just as well as any high end Android, and I'd say the same for WP, but it's constantly bashed because of multi OEM manufacturing by the media and such.

 

[LightBulbIT]

I remember this: many of you are too young to realize but Apple did EXACTLY the same thing in the mid 90s. When they switched from PowerPC chips to Intel an OSX, they basically threw the finger to their ENTIRE USER BASE (no iPod or iPad at the time) and said "Switch or Die". They lost some market share, but they were losing anyway. They had to do SOMETHING to move ahead. Now look at them. This was the perfect time for Microsoft to do this. They proved they had a viable platform worth investing in (WP7 and WP7.5) to themselves AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, their partners. They did it at the time when the viable base was at it's absolute smallest (to avoid pissing off the least amount of people) and before trying to deeply integrate with a dissimilar core architecture (W8). They did this BEFORE everyone switched to W8 (in the next 2-3 years) and to complete their "3 screen" objective. If they did this anytime before this, it would have been questionable if all the resources required would have been worth the tiny marketshare they had before Nokia started spreading like a virus. Anytime after this time, they would have potentially pissed off A LOT more people and done some REAL damage. The change to a W8 core fixes many problems that would have been difficult to counter on other platforms (after all, it's basically a handheld PC with a smaller screen) and gives unique advantages (security, management, develop one codebase, etc.) If you remember, Microsoft rushed WP7 to market because they simply couldn't wait any longer to have even a prayer at getting any marketshare from Apple and Google (hence the new strategy of announcing things to keep people from buying other products even though they are not even close to finishing it for release). People need to stop getting their feelings hurt and realize that this is a business and sometimes hard decisions have to be made. They would have loved to keep dragging us along, but, in many ways, that is what is wrong with Windows as it is. The only difference between Microsoft and Apple is that Apple did it first (because it had to). There will probably be similar results (Apple has 5-6% of PC market, but owns tablets (if it stays true to form), and Microsoft will probably have <20% of phone market, but owns PCs). The difference is, the phone market is much bigger (not many people have more than one or two PCs in their home or at work, but every single person on the planet will soon have a phone), so Microsoft is pushing forward to try to capture that market. Everyone who makes a tool in this age will have to do something to this degree at some time (Look at Adobe Flash, Adobe is moving on and making tools for HTML5 now. The web is a constantly changing animal, more than any of this. What used to be done with .jpegs and .gifs is now done in CSS with code). There are casualties and people left out anytime this happens (Flash developers need new skills to be sure). Now is Microsoft's time.

-Lumia 900 user

 

[ninjaap]

Wow. That actually made a lot of sense! ^

 

[HeyCori]

Isn't it more like Gen 1.5 now? The hardware didn't exactly change that much even from Gen 1s except clock speed really. It's been the same res, single core, 512 RAM, etc. Maybe a fancy new screen tech here, higher res camera sensor there (with bsi for some phones), but overall, it's more like a half increment now. The only thing that pushed them to "Gen2" was the Mango update. NoDo was more of a refresh wasn't it, (wasn't a WP user at the time), and wasn't really associated with any phone releases at the time I believe. The only thing new about the Lumia 900 and Titan II are manufacturing dates. Even the Lumia 800 has been out for quite a while. I'd say though, by the time WP8 roles around it's specs will be outdated. Apple doesn't worry about this because they set their own stuff and it runs just as well as any high end Android, and I'd say the same for WP, but it's constantly bashed because of multi OEM manufacturing by the media and such.

That's true, the gen2 devices weren't leaps and bounds above gen1 devices. They were way behind in the power department even when they were released.

 

[HeyCori]

All this reminds me of how Nexus One owners must of felt when they heard their flagship device wasn't getting ICS. At least WP7.5 owners are getting something, lol.

 

[mb-dape]

All this reminds me of how Nexus One owners must of felt when they heard their flagship device wasn't getting ICS. At least WP7.5 owners are getting something, lol.

Can you not stop trying to compare to Android and iOS all the time?!

So many of you giving bad examples, but there is none that can compare to MS and WP8.

Nexus One was 22 months old when ICS released. Boho?

 

[HeyCori]

Can you not stop trying to compare to Android and iOS all the time?!

So many of you giving bad examples, but there is none that can compare to MS and WP8.

Nexus One was 22 months old when ICS released. Boho?

Do you realize that gen2 devices will be nearly 1.5 years old when WP8 is released?

Your hardware is not new, stop pretending that it is. The 900 was outdated the second it was released. The only thing new about the 900 is the release date.

BTW, your math is wrong. The Nexus One was released in Jan 2010. ICS was released on Oct. 2011. That's 21 months unless I messed up.

 

[mb-dape]

How is anyone deserted is BEYOND any sane man's understanding.

You got the phones. You liked them. You paid them for what they were.
Now MSFT is giving you features. NOT just the start screen.

Start screen has been revealed as IT IS NOT consumer only feature. Devs need to know how their tiles can now be modified. It was DEV summit. Joe clearly said there are many changes coming to WP8 and WP7.8 for consumer end which is me and you and that tom, dick and harry shouting in possibly all other forums. We don't know these features. But come on, let us get the perspective.

WP7 to WP7.5 = 200 features
WP7.5 to WPTango = 8 features at least?
WPTango to WP7.8 = at least 10 features? (I say it will be 100, but for you say 10?)

How is this deserting anyone? MSFT is adding features to the phone you paid for because you liked it out of the box as it was. You knew it when you bought it. None of the adverts, marketing, sales ever promised us WP8. The reason WP8 can't run for Tom, Dick and Harry's phone is because they don't know how to wipe their phone and start fresh and avoid probs. However for me and you, we have forums, we will get a port anyway!

Also for those worried about apps, you've gotta read this - http://forums.windowscentral.com/1674820-post401.htm

Come on, of course MS could make a backup/restore solution for an upgrade to WP8, that not the problem at all. Nokia has done it with Symbian many times, OEMs have done it with Android. MS has done it with Windows on PC.

Talking about PCs, compare it with a computer. I am not really into specs and hardware, so lets say I buy one of the most expensive PCs. At the time it has the new Win 8 and I install applications like Photoshop CS6 etc.

6 months later Win 9 is released, which for some reason will not be compatible with my new PC. 1 year later Photoshop CS7 is released only to Win 8 because it uses new functions in the OS.

Wouldnt you be upset if you bought on of the most expensive computers and just after some months it will be phased out?

Just as I have expectations when I buy a powerfull PC that it will be able to take advantage of new software for at least a couple of years, I had the same expectations for the HTC Titan.

To be honest, I didnt even know there was something called Windows Phone 8 or Apollo in the works when I bought it. I didnt know the hardware in the phone was obsolete even when it was released.

And its not about specs or version numbers anyway. Its about buying the best WP phone with hardware and software with big potential that will loose support way to fast.

To say it again, if you buy an iPhone or an Android flagship, you CAN feel safe that it will be supported for at least 18 months and that it will not be thrown out of the eco-system just months after it was released.

Before buying the Titan all I heard was how MS support would be even better than this, there would be no fragmentation and the WP phones would have longer lives because of its unified OS.

So I dont agree with you at all.

Buying a smartphone today is much more then settle with what I found in the box. It is about being a part of an growing and living eco-system.

As with the computer, I bought an 900 USD WP7.5 phone to jump on the WP train and go with it and enjoy the development of the OS for a couple of years. Now I will be thrown off just after some months.

 

[naplesbill]

Figure 8, stop using data of convenience. By your logic, no device is ever really new since the hardware used was made months before it was built. The fact is the Lumia and Titan II were RELEASED two months ago. That is the only relevant data for this discussion. The hardware was dictated by Microsoft not the OEMs.

They all had to know what was coming yesterday and were less than transparent about it. Like it or not, these devices were marketed as the latest and greatest. Enough of the blind defense. Its like battered spouse syndrome or something.

There are plenty of things I like about Microsoft and the OEMs involved here. This handling of existing devices is not one of them. At least open up to the fact that others may feel differently about all of this than you do.

Sent from my PI86100 using Board Express

 

[Squatting Hen]

I bought an 900 USD WP7.5 phone to jump on the WP train and go with it and enjoy the development of the OS for a couple of years. Now I will be thrown off just after some months.

You can still ride the train, you just have to move back to the coach section. Don't worry, you will still get to the same place as everyone else.

 

[HeyCori]

Figure 8, stop using data of convenience. By your logic, no device is ever really new since the hardware used was made months before it was built. The fact is the Lumia and Titan II were RELEASED two months ago.

Device release dates don't change hardware limitations.

 

[mb-dape]

Do you realize that gen2 devices will be nearly 1.5 years old when WP8 is released?

Your hardware is not new, stop pretending that it is. The 900 was outdated the second it was released. The only thing new about the 900 is the release date.

BTW, your math is wrong. The Nexus One was released in Jan 2010. ICS was released on Oct. 2011. That's 21 months unless I messed up.

Sorry, it was just 21 months old? Well that changes things.

About hardware. Outdated? Yes we realize NOW when we know about WP8 that it was outdated. Back when Titan, Lumia 800 and 900 was released they were top of line in the WP world, not outdated at all.

If anyone said they were pretty old the WP community started to tell you stories about how multi core, big ram etc is just BS and is only needed to run the worst written OS ever, Android.

 

[naplesbill]

There is no hardware limitation preventing WP8 from running on the 2nd Gen WP7 devices. Even MS admitted that they just didn't want to waste resources on creating that upgrade path. WP7.8 is just a result of MS throwing a bone. A paltry one at that.

Sent from my PI86100 using Board Express

 

[HeyCori]

Sorry, it was just 21 months old? Well that changes things.

About hardware. Outdated? Yes we realize NOW when we know about WP8 that it was outdated. Back when Titan, Lumia 800 and 900 was released they were top of line in the WP world, not outdated at all.

If anyone said they were pretty old the WP community started to tell you stories about how multi core, big ram etc is just BS and is only needed to run the worst written OS ever, Android.

While I'm glad my phone is getting 7.8 and devs can still make apps that run on 7.8/8, I would like to know what else MS has planned (if anything) for 7.5 devices. There are some features that seem like they would work great on 7.8 but MS didn't say anything other than, "Hey, new start screen."