Microsoft doesn't get it: W10 will still feel like an OS with two mixed worlds

[anon(5969054)]

No you don't get it.

Well explain me then. Why they ask feedback on an icon set that should never even be considered. They are going with 2d in modern design and come to with 3d icons ancient desktop style. Wtf?

Microsoft must be clueless what direction they want to go. Asking feedback like this few months before RTM. You either have a vision where everything looks consistent or you don't. The fact that this 3d icon set crossed their minds shows that getting everything consistent isn't a high priority. I hope I'm wrong.

I do believe there can be 1 UI that works for desktop use and tablet use. All that needs to variate is the spacing and perhaps some hidden buttons in tablets mode.

 

[jhoff80]

you should remember that ms haven't really added any of the touch stuff to the technical preview yet.

​That was true like 3 builds ago. Continuum (and therefore tablet mode as well) has been present since 9926. They're showing us the direction they plan to take the tablet already, and in two months the only change they've made is adding a toggle to disable the constant "Enter tablet mode" notifications.

​Let's keep in mind that this is launching in the summer, which means RTM is probably June at the latest. That also means there's only a couple months before they have to go into a feature freeze, to stop adding new stuff and instead fix bugs. What they're showing now is what they plan this OS to be... and it's been confirmed by Belfiore that much of this is intentional as the new tablet design.

I'm also curious what the hell the point of the Feedback app has been, as the vast majority of the feedback, even all of the highest-rated stuff, hasn't been implemented (not just with regards to Continuum, but with the OS as a whole). The PR has been better this time around, but it has the distinct feeling that the Windows 8 previews had - that Microsoft knows exactly what they're going to do, and the feedback is nearly irrelevant.

 

[Gamely Lounges]

Newsflash: MS is working their asses off right now trying to get W10 features to be as good as possible AS WELL AS stable as possible. It is harder than you think to make lots of OS changes and enhancements. I am pretty sure they have lots of people paying attention to the feedback.

 

[anon(5969054)]

​That was true like 3 builds ago. Continuum (and therefore tablet mode as well) has been present since 9926. They're showing us the direction they plan to take the tablet already, and in two months the only change they've made is adding a toggle to disable the constant "Enter tablet mode" notifications.

​Let's keep in mind that this is launching in the summer, which means RTM is probably June at the latest. That also means there's only a couple months before they have to go into a feature freeze, to stop adding new stuff and instead fix bugs. What they're showing now is what they plan this OS to be... and it's been confirmed by Belfiore that much of this is intentional as the new tablet design.

I'm also curious what the hell the point of the Feedback app has been, as the vast majority of the feedback, even all of the highest-rated stuff, hasn't been implemented (not just with regards to Continuum, but with the OS as a whole). The PR has been better this time around, but it has the distinct feeling that the Windows 8 previews had - that Microsoft knows exactly what they're going to do, and the feedback is nearly irrelevant.

Couldn't have said it better. This is what they are going to release as RTM. Maybe some minor tweaks and that's it. And we all dreaming that everything would be streamlined with w10. Guess not. Still that ugly desktop that looks like Frankenstein compared to the modern stuff around it.

I know things can be themed and functionality matters more. But for the general public it will look still as two worlds. The whole UI feels like a bad 8.2 fix to solve start menu complaints.

Don't tell me the big UI change will come in later builds. It's bull****. Windows explorer will look vastly the same as ever.

When I happen to be wrong I will eat a snicker.

 

[tangledW]

​Translation: you are complaining about someone else complaining.

Complaint or observation?

By your logic, wouldn't you be guilty of the same thing you're accusing me of?

 

[anon(5969054)]

Newsflash: MS is working their asses off right now trying to get W10 features to be as good as possible AS WELL AS stable as possible. It is harder than you think to make lots of OS changes and enhancements. I am pretty sure they have lots of people paying attention to the feedback.

Newsflash for you: The people that do UI have their own work. They are not dependent on other teams that work on features and stability. They should have a clear vision where the UI will go. And it appears they don't have that vision.

 

[Asskickulater]

Newsflash for you: The people that do UI have their own work. They are not dependent on other teams that work on features and stability. They should have a clear vision where the UI will go. And it appears they don't have that vision.

Newsflash, ui polish is always one of the last things an OS gets merged with the main branch.

now can we stop newsflashing each other condescendingly?

 

[Grimlock]

Complaint or observation?

By your logic, wouldn't you be guilty of the same thing you're accusing me of?

No I was pointing out the inconsistency of your statement. While some may disagree with my points, I actually contributed something constructive to this thread.

 

[Microsoftjunkie]

I haven't read everyone's post, but it sounds like most people are forgetting continuum. I love the fact that there isnt a full mesh between desktop and metro. I love the ability to connect wirelessly or through mini hdmi and have a familiar but robust desktop experience using my wireless keyboard. I like the fact there are two separate worlds. Hopefully MS find a way to combine the two slightly more. Two user interfaces for multiple users and scenarios.

Windows is way more powerful than Android and IOS and there needs a way to keep that power user e existence while not trying to be like the other os's.

Windows 10 will be another chapter in great user experiences and functionality.

 

[Luuthian]

and in exactly what way is it easier to do sometihng in w7 with a keyboard and mouse thats harder in windows 10, give a specific example.

Ease of use wasn't where I was going here. It's the feeling and general approach of the platform.

For example, a number of the metro apps still scroll from left to right. This makes sense on a tablet and touch device but not on a desktop. Mouse wheels scroll up and down, it doesn't come off right when the screen moves horizontally with a vertically shaped tool. Microsoft has adjusted their new Beta Store to correct this (to a point, as it's still obviously based on finger swipes seeing as you need to click an icon to swing the app bands left and right) but other apps still work horizontally for some reason.

The size of the Metro icons and the way they open into very tablet/cellphone like apps with hamburger bars and such is also heavily geared towards a finger based approach. Most PC screens have plenty of real estate to combat things like this, allowing more information on the screen (much like how iPad apps require a pull out tab much less often than their cellphone versions).

What I'm saying here is not that things are more difficult for mouse users but that numerous parts of Windows 10 have structured the design language around touch oriented devices. It feels a little weird, especially when the point of a desktop is that you have a vertically oriented scrolling tool and a mouse to click things. You do not have a finger to swipe and navigate fluently in multiple directions. The experience is a little... Off. It functions, sure, but it doesn't quite feel right. Although, having looked at more videos of Windows 10 on a tablet (since I don't own a Windows one) I think jhoff80 is correct: The tablet version is the one that suffers most from this strange combination of design languages.

I still prefer Windows as a work/game machine but I believe Apple is making the right move when it comes to combining desktop and cellphone experiences. It makes sense for the devices to talk and extend unto each other as opposed to forcing them to share aspects of one another that don't quite fit.

 

[Asskickulater]

Ease of use wasn't where I was going here. It's the feeling and general approach of the platform.

For example, a number of the metro apps still scroll from left to right. This makes sense on a tablet and touch device but not on a desktop. Mouse wheels scroll up and down, it doesn't come off right when the screen moves horizontally with a vertically shaped tool. Microsoft has adjusted their new Beta Store to correct this (to a point, as it's still obviously based on finger swipes seeing as you need to click an icon to swing the app bands left and right) but other apps still work horizontally for some reason.

The size of the Metro icons and the way they open into very tablet/cellphone like apps with hamburger bars and such is also heavily geared towards a finger based approach. Most PC screens have plenty of real estate to combat things like this, allowing more information on the screen (much like how iPad apps require a pull out tab much less often than their cellphone versions).

What I'm saying here is not that things are more difficult for mouse users but that numerous parts of Windows 10 have structured the design language around touch oriented devices. It feels a little weird, especially when the point of a desktop is that you have a vertically oriented scrolling tool and a mouse to click things. You do not have a finger to swipe and navigate fluently in multiple directions. The experience is a little... Off. It functions, sure, but it doesn't quite feel right. Although, having looked at more videos of Windows 10 on a tablet (since I don't own a Windows one) I think jhoff80 is correct: The tablet version is the one that suffers most from this strange combination of design languages.

I still prefer Windows as a work/game machine but I believe Apple is making the right move when it comes to combining desktop and cellphone experiences. It makes sense for the devices to talk and extend unto each other as opposed to forcing them to share aspects of one another that don't quite fit.

Ok, so what I've got from this is that

A) you are whiining about something you see microsoft actively fixing (vertical scrolling)

B) apparently uniform menus is something thats only good on touch screen devices? Don't get this one at all

C) clicking words that scroll left or right? Whats the bloody difference from programs that just change once you click a button? The only difference is you get a nice animation with this one..

 

[Dietrich Cleijne]

Isn't it a bit wiser to wait untill the final release of Windows 10?
Complaints about a not finished product will lead to nothing, serious criticism regarding some issues might be worth while though.

 

[anon(5969054)]

Isn't it a bit wiser to wait untill the final release of Windows 10?
Complaints about a not finished product will lead to nothing, serious criticism regarding some issues might be worth while though.

No. Criticism is needed now. When you see them come up with such icons it is time to warn them. W10 cannot afford to be a catastrofe when it launches. It would be too late.

Some people here get me wrong.
I am all for one OS for tablets and desktops and the UI should change with continuum. But only the spacing and some menu systems should change. The general design language should always stay the same. And it seems with continuum they don't care to get the same design language for both worlds.

 

[Dietrich Cleijne]

I do think they care, and i am sure they are going to nail it.

 

[Tsang Fai]

I don't agree that W10 is like an OS "with two mixed worlds".

Microsoft is trying to provide users with a more consistent working experience across devices (desktop, laptop, tablet, phones). Such a consistency is very important. As users, we are tired of searching for apps across devices, for just doing the same task. We are also tired of getting our devices into the same settings.

If your desktop OS and mobile OS come from the same company, for what reason would you like to work on two inconsistent UIs? We can accept that the mobile OS has less functionalities, but we expect the same UI experience.

As smartphones are becoming more and more powerful, and mobile network is getting faster and faster, we should all agree that smartphone has become an vital device for working/playing (e-mails, calendars, documents, music, ...). A consistent UI is therefore of utmost importance to users.

If you say different devices are of "different worlds", then you are wasting your time on learning how to do the same thing on "different worlds". As users, the primary focus is on working & playing, but not on learning how to use an OS. A good OS takes users minimal time on learning.

Those people making unnecessarily too much criticism on Win8/10 most probably just hate Microsoft.

It is a very old mindset to think that desktop computers and mobile devices are two different "worlds". There would never be smartphones if we think that browsing on the Internet could only happen in a desktop computer. There would be no tablets if we think that watching movies could only happen in a desktop computer.

 

[EMINENT 1]

Icons? Really?

I couldn't care less what the icons look like.

If you want different worlds, you have that experience now on other platforms. Just go.

 

[Jazmac]

Icons? Really?

I couldn't care less what the icons look like.

If you want different worlds, you have that experience now on other platforms. Just go.

Exactly my point.
Nothing wrong with theming Windows if that is what you want to do. There are plenty of products on the market that will allow you to do extraordinary things with the desktop. I mentioned my experience with WindowBlinds from Stardock.com. That outfit has tons of em. Alienware is another product that does it. Its your own world to transform your own desktop to whatever you want it to look like. For the majority, its about the icon you click to launch whatever application you need to run. Its just that simple.

 

[Protocol Rahul]

I think that the Tablet mode should optimize the entire desktop, explorer for touch use including office, cause right now it is just few apps, whereas I want to navigate the whole OS using the touch screen. with the current situation I feel start screen/menu as just a formality for touch users, what I mean is now even with 50ish apps it is just one page, unlike windows 8 with the amount of apps I had, It felt good to navigate the start screen using touch.
I think they should add more gestures, like the phone version.

 

[tangledW]

No I was pointing out the inconsistency of your statement. While some may disagree with my points, I actually contributed something constructive to this thread.

Being a **** isn't much of a contribution.

 

[bridder]

Just a general comment looking through the posts about meshing desktop and modern design, I think Microsoft have an impossible task here, so many people use windows it's going to be impossible to please all the people all the time; I just don't think there is any one design or paradigm that Microsoft will hit on that everyone just says, "Good job MS, spot on".

Probably sound like captain obvious here, it certainly seems this way to me.