MS confirms that WP8 will be upgradable...

ninjaap

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Could be good, could be bad for our platform. Good, because we don't have to worry about future firmware updates. Bad, because it may hold tech and innovation back, because we're stuck on the same hardware for a while to please the consumers. Unless, they stick with the supposed 18 months support policy.
 

Daniel Ratcliffe

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The Microsoft executive also touched a bit on why his company has been so quiet during Mobile World Congress, which officially kicked off on February 25. Sullivan said that Microsoft has been keeping itself busy with multiple partner meetings on each day, but that it opted not to hold a big press conference because of its new "shut up and ship" mentality. He elaborated by saying that Microsoft doesn't plan to announce new versions of Windows Phone months before they're available. Instead, Sullivan teased that we could see "some exciting new devices and more interoperability" announced before Microsoft reveals its next operating system. Exactly what Microsoft is planning is a mystery for now, but with today's news about Windows Phone 8 upgradeability and this tease of new hardware and increased interoperability, it seems like Windows Phone fans have a lot to get excited about.

Sounds good to me. Hopefully they iron out all the bugs then add 9859805439086459054609465094576097465 new features before Feb 28th 2013 :wink: - okay, I kid about the features, although we need new features, but the bugs could do with being squashed.
 

BeaverJuicer

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A smart business learns that there is a certain element of customer who will never be happy no matter what they do. Some people just like to complain and whine. The key is to minimize those, and then tune them out to concentrate on what really needs to be done.

I suspect this is what Microsoft is doing.
 
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leonkehoe

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Bad, because it may hold tech and innovation back, because we're stuck on the same hardware for a while to please the consumers. Unless, they stick with the supposed 18 months support policy.

Perhaps, like Apple, they'll continue to update Windows Phone running on older hardware but exclude any new features that are CPU intensive to avoid damaging the user experience?
 

a5cent

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OP, thanks for the link.

That being said, is this really new information? Microsoft already stated that WP8 will receive updates (or be upgradeable) for at least 18 months. IMHO, the real problem is not if we will get updates or not, but the lack of any insight into Microsoft's update policies. IMHO, until they are understood, such "talking points" mean very little. For Google and Apple those policies are absolutely clear:

Google
Periodically publishes Android OS source code to the internet. Whether a particular device is updated is entirely up to the OEM and the carriers. Basically, Google is not involved in update policy at all.

Apple
Releases updates on a yearly schedule. Apple makes every update available to at least the last two generations of hardware, although some features may be disabled on older hardware.

Microsoft
?

For both Android and iOS, it is easy to dig up the underlying reasoning that led each company to choose the policies they did. For WP that isn't publicly available information. IMHO, this ties in with "all the complaining", which I largely disagree with, but understand. Why should anyone accept anything related to computer technology, without the slightest explanation as to why?
 

ninjaap

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Perhaps, like Apple, they'll continue to update Windows Phone running on older hardware but exclude any new features that are CPU intensive to avoid damaging the user experience?

What if they do it similar to Windows PCs? They give us the minimum requirements and we decide if we want to pay and install it or not. But only pay for major upgrades (WP7 to WP8) not updates (WP7-7.5-7.8), like from W7 to W8. The promised 18 months support should give us 2 or 3 major updates to keep us happy.
 

spaulagain

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Could be good, could be bad for our platform. Good, because we don't have to worry about future firmware updates. Bad, because it may hold tech and innovation back, because we're stuck on the same hardware for a while to please the consumers. Unless, they stick with the supposed 18 months support policy.


What? WP8 is about as expandable as possible. Why do you think it and W8 share the same kernel?

WP8 is in no way holding hardware back for at least the next several years. Any features can be added easily with "blue" like updates. The only notable feature support is full HD screens which they can also update. You don't need a whole new OS that isn't applicable to older devices every year.

I imagine MS will go much the same route as Apple except more intense interval updates. WP7 was dropped because it was built on outdated technology that MS was already phasing out when WP7 was launched.
 

ninjaap

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What? WP8 is about as expandable as possible. Why do you think it and W8 share the same kernel?

WP8 is in no way holding hardware back for at least the next several years. Any features can be added easily with "blue" like updates. The only notable feature support is full HD screens which they can also update. You don't need a whole new OS that isn't applicable to older devices every year.

I imagine MS will go much the same route as Apple except more intense interval updates. WP7 was dropped because it was built on outdated technology that MS was already phasing out when WP7 was launched.

I never said WP8 and W8 share the same kernel. I dont even really understand what kernel means :)
 

Nik Rolls

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I never said WP8 and W8 share the same kernel. I dont even really understand what kernel means :)

His was a rhetorical question. They do share the same kernel, which is why it is so expandable -- Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8 have the same core codebase (kernel) meaning upgrade paths should be as flexible (ideally) as the desktop OS has been since Windows 2000 when the kernel came into wide use.
 

ninjaap

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His was a rhetorical question. They do share the same kernel, which is why it is so expandable -- Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8 have the same core codebase (kernel) meaning upgrade paths should be as flexible (ideally) as the desktop OS has been since Windows 2000 when the kernel came into wide use.

Oh. Hahaha now I know Thanks.
 

Daniel Ratcliffe

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What if they do it similar to Windows PCs? They give us the minimum requirements and we decide if we want to pay and install it or not. But only pay for major upgrades (WP7 to WP8) not updates (WP7-7.5-7.8), like from W7 to W8. The promised 18 months support should give us 2 or 3 major updates to keep us happy.

They charge for phone updates and they'll fail. I'm not happy about paying for upgrades. Instead I'll just buy the new hardware!
 

a5cent

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After rereading my previous post, I feel I must clarify what I meant with the following:

For both Android and iOS, it is easy to dig up the underlying reasoning that led each company to choose the [update] policies they did. For WP that isn't publicly available information. IMHO, this ties in with "all the complaining", which I largely disagree with, but understand. Why should anyone accept anything related to computer technology, without the slightest explanation as to why?

These are examples for the types of questions I believe MS needs to answer:

  • Why did MS say WP8 will get updates for 18 months? Why not 12? Why not 24?
  • Why is updatability tied to a certain number of months. That seems arbitrary. Why is it not tied to something more meaningful, like hardware release cycles (as with iOS)?
  • Why is MS getting rid of version numbers? For the next couple updates everything is officially WP8.0? What is that all about?
  • Will hardware improvements during WP8's life cycle be confined to improvements made within the Snapdragon S4 family, or can we expect bigger jumps to architecturally different SoC's that represent the latest and greatest, like the Snapdragon 800? Whatever the answer is, explain why?
  • While we're at it... why did WP7 not get the WP8 update? Was this a special case scenario, or can we expect similar behaviour going forward (BTW: WP7 got updates for 26 months, not 18)
IMHO, until such questions can be answered, a short statement like "WP8 will be upgradable..." means almost nothing.
 

BeaverJuicer

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OP, thanks for the link.

That being said, is this really new information? Microsoft already stated that WP8 will receive updates (or be upgradeable) for at least 18 months. IMHO, the real problem is not if we will get updates or not, but the lack of any insight into Microsoft's update policies. IMHO, until they are understood, such "talking points" mean very little. For Google and Apple those policies are absolutely clear:

Google
Periodically publishes Android OS source code to the internet. Whether a particular device is updated is entirely up to the OEM and the carriers. Basically, Google is not involved in update policy at all.

Apple
Releases updates on a yearly schedule. Apple makes every update available to at least the last two generations of hardware, although some features may be disabled on older hardware.

Microsoft
?

For both Android and iOS, it is easy to dig up the underlying reasoning that led each company to choose the policies they did. For WP that isn't publicly available information. IMHO, this ties in with "all the complaining", which I largely disagree with, but understand. Why should anyone accept anything related to computer technology, without the slightest explanation as to why?
Here's the thing... Everyone knows Apple releases yearly updates... because that is what they did. Prior to them doing so, nobody knew that's what they would do, it was all merely speculation.

Android periodically publishes updates... But gives no schedule.

MS... Doesn't really have a track record yet, so everything is mere conjecture, just like it was when Android and iOS were new.

These are examples for the types of questions I believe MS needs to answer:


  • Why did MS say WP8 will get updates for 18 months? Why not 12? Why not 24?
  • Why is updatability tied to a certain number of months. That seems arbitrary. Why is it not tied to something more meaningful, like hardware release cycles (as with iOS)?
  • Why is MS getting rid of version numbers? For the next couple updates everything is officially WP8.0? What is that all about?
  • Will hardware improvements during WP8's life cycle be confined to improvements made within the Snapdragon S4 family, or can we expect bigger jumps to architecturally different SoC's that represent the latest and greatest, like the Snapdragon 800? Whatever the answer is, explain why?
  • While we're at it... why did WP7 not get the WP8 update? Was this a special case scenario, or can we expect similar behaviour going forward (BTW: WP7 got updates for 26 months, not 18)
- seems like as reasonable a number as any... Most US cell users buy on 2 year contracts, leading to a 2 year upgrade. 12 months leaves them out in the cold for half their term. At 24 months, they are likely buying a new phone anyhow.
- it is tied to the fact that MS is saying "we are not an android mfr, and will support your phone for the life of your contract. Any updates within the 18 month timeframe will support your hardware. After that, we will not guarantee backward compatibility.
- does that really matter???
- see my second point.
- WP7 phones did not have hardware that supported WP8 architecture. This was covered by many articles when WP8 was released.
 
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IceDree

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Here's the thing... Everyone knows Apple releases yearly updates... because that is what they did. Prior to them doing so, nobody knew that's what they would do, it was all merely speculation.

Android periodically publishes updates... But gives no schedule.

MS... Doesn't really have a track record yet, so everything is mere conjecture, just like it was when Android and iOS were new.


- seems like as reasonable a number as any... Most US cell users buy on 2 year contracts, leading to a 2 year upgrade. 12 months leaves them out in the cold for half their term. At 24 months, they are likely buying a new phone anyhow.
- it is tied to the fact that MS is saying "we are not an android mfr, and will support your phone for the life of your contract. Any updates within the 18 month timeframe will support your hardware. After that, we will not guarantee backward compatibility.
- does that really matter???
- see my second point.
- WP7 phones did not have hardware that supported WP8 architecture. This was covered by many articles when WP8 was released.

Well said man !

Regarding updating WP7 to WP8 ,
from my understanding , there's some sort of a new hardware related encryption in WP8 , that can not be implemented in current WP7 devices .
this , plus a combination of factors made it impossible to make WP8 works properly in previous Gen devices ! kinda like the WP8 on the HTC HD2 , which kept crashing every time !
 

Gambit11B

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Another reason why MS should just produce their own phone..... it'd be a LOT easier to control updates and support. Without the need for the various OEM specs getting in the way.

Maybe offer only Nokia (because of their "sworn support" of Windows Phone) and Surface phones. Nokia could offer the general product, and the Surface phone could be the developer-like device (like the Nexus devices for Android).
 

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